Forest of Dean FHT Forum - FoD Wills from National Archives Online eg Mary PALMER 1791

FoD Wills from National Archives Online eg Mary PALMER 1791 (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:59:49 +0000

Further to the recent PALMER threads, just to reinforce what MPG has recently stated, the National Archives website is well-worth searching as they are able to supply Wills by email so worldwide for very low cost from their "online" collection.

I think this is the search page to use, like many search engines I suggest "less is more" and best results are obtained by keeping the search text to a minimum.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Home/OnlineCollections

Re the PALMERS, the only Palmer Will I can find in the site is indeed for a Mary Palmer, this time "from" Mitcheldean, so possibly related to the nearby Flaxley Palmers ?.

Searching "Palmer Dean" gave seven UK-wide results including:

"Reference:PROB 11/1208/24
Description:Will of Mary Palmer, Widow of Mitchel Dean , Gloucestershire
Date: 04 August 1791
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record

"Buy online for £3.36, 5 pages totalling 1262 KB across 1 PDF file(s)."

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_col=2&_q=palmer+dean

----------------

From this FoD site's PRs, I think these match the above Will ??

Record_ID: 319297
Entry_Number:
Year: 1791
Month: Jul
Day: 25
Surname: PALMER
Forenames: Mary
Residence:
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: Wid[ow]
Notes: Entry in BTs very feint
Register_Reference: P220 IN 1/2
Page_No: 12
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: P456

Or possibly ?? (there are a LOT of Mary Palmers in the PRs)

Record_ID: 319283
Entry_Number:
Year: 1790
Month: Jul
Day: 24
Surname: PALMER
Forenames: Mary
Residence:
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: Not in the PRs. Entry not in correct date order in the BTs.
Register_Reference: GDR V1/160
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Mitcheldean
Soundex: P456

Wills from GlosArchives (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 12:38:15 +0000

Thanks Anthony for clarifying the current situation, GlosArchives' use of the postal service is what I expected from reading their website. However the costs are much less than I had anticipated they might be, far less than their advertised photocopying costs etc. I therefore SURMISE that at least some of their Wills are already digitised, as with much of their service, so the apparent photocopy is actually a more-easily-produced print from a digital file; compared to the higher costs being directly related to time & labour of finding & photocopying a filed document. (The "old" xerox photocopying process now being a digital scan after all, the process of photocopying can automatically create a digital image file). If this the case then hopefully GlosArchives are not too far away from being able to send out these digital images as email attachments, much easier for all concerned and better preserves the original documents. The small engineering company I used to work for were communicating complex engineering drawings, artworks, sketches, photos etc around the world way via our desktop pcs over ten years ago to great effect and relatively low outlay.

Joseph PALMER 1813 - 1896 Flaxley -> Wales (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 10:24:32 +0000

Ancestry Probate:

PALMER Joseph - of "the cross" Newton Montgomeryshire - ironmonger and furniture-dealer, died 26 November 1896. Probate Shrewsbury 6 February to Mary Jane JONES - spinster. Effects £1647 16s. 1d.

? is Mary the 22 year old Servant 1891 census

Joseph PALMER 1813 - 1896 Flaxley -> Wales (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:31:41 +0000

Marilyn - go to sleep!

YES Joseph PALMER s/o John PALMER bap Flaxley 16.05.1813 [just hope he was born before April otherwise his mother was up to no good...]

Joseph PALMER d/bur 21.09.1876 W o S age 64 [both FoD records]

His first marriage? You are too much!

Kath

Only one wife !

1851 Dyffrin Llanfair, Newtown
Joseph Palmer 33 Falsley Glos
Ann Palmer 38 Stonehouse
Ann Marris 26
Mary Ann Davis 23
Eliza Davis 18

1861
Joseph Palmer Ann abt 1816 Flanby, Gloucestershire, England Head Newtown, Montgomeryshire
[Harriet} Ann Palmer abt 1811 Llaneham, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newtown, Montgomeryshire - Harriet struck out on Census image
Harriet Wilkson abt 1812 Gloucestershire, England Cousin Newtown, Montgomeryshire

1871 Newtown
Joseph Palmer 53 Fladbury
Ann Palmer 56 Stonehouse
Mary A Jones 22 Servant from Staffordshire

1881 High St
Joseph Palmer abt 1816 Fluxley, Gloucestershire, England Head Newtown, Montgomeryshire Widow

1891
Josep Palmer abt 1814 Flaxley, Gloucestershire, England Newtown, Montgomeryshire

Name:Joseph Palmer
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1813
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Age at Death:83
Registration District:Newton
Inferred County:Montgomeryshire
Volume:11b
Page:132

Name:Joseph Palmer
Probate Date;6 Feb 1897
Death Date:26 Nov 1896
Death Place: Montgomeryshire, Wales
Registry:Shrewsbury

PALMER /BULLOCK/BELLAMY (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:31:16 +0000

No, but my Son is!!!

PALMER /BULLOCK/BELLAMY (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:29:13 +0000

Go and play golf - I cannot absorb this at this time of night...

Were you a detective in another life?

bow & scrape - Kath

PALMER /BULLOCK/BELLAMY/BROWNING (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:22:32 +0000

Hi Kath

I'm getting ready for yet another day on the golf course!!!

Not sure if this is Ann's Dad!!

Gloucestershire CD's

Stonehouse Marriage

Joseph BELLAMY (Wdr) - married Eleanor Abia FRYER - 10 January 1828

1841 Census Moreton Valerie

Stone Marling

Joseph BELLAMY - 55 - farmer
Joseph BELLAMY - 20

Burial Index - Stonehouse

Eleanore Abia BELLAMY - 2 September 1836 (age 53)
Joseph BELLAMY - 16 September 1841 - age 57 (residence Horse Marley)

CLDS

Baptism at Stonehouse

27 May 1810 - Ann BELLAMY - parents: Josh & Susannah

---

Glos Burial Index CD for Stonehouse

Susanna BELLAMY - buried 17 April 1825 age 40

----

FOD records
Joseph BELLAMY married Susanna BROWNING 10 November 1806 Westbury on Severn

witnesses: John BELLAMY, Mary BROWNING and Anthony BENNETT

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

anthonyworgan — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:18:53 +0000

Re: Ordering Wills from Glos Archives
I have used this wonderful service for many years. From their website you have to download an order form, fill in the details e.g. names, dates & Glos ref number etc. It costs £6 per Will plus £1 p & p. They then send you a photo copy of the original Will by post - not by email as far as I know.

PALMER /BULLOCK/BELLAMY (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:17:19 +0000

Marilyn - go to sleep!

YES Joseph PALMER s/o John PALMER bap Flaxley 16.05.1813 [just hope he was born before April otherwise his mother was up to no good...]

Joseph PALMER d/bur 21.09.1876 W o S age 64 [both FoD records]

His first marriage? You are too much!

Kath

PALMER /BULLOCK/BELLAMY (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:42:24 +0000

I see it now - from early census returns - Joseph PALMER's first wife was Ann - from Stonehouse

Freebdm

Marriage - Stroud District: A/M/J Qtr 1839

Joseph PALMER married Ann BELLAMY

1841 Census, Glos

Westgate Street

Joseph PALMER - 25 - Ironmonger
Ann PALMER - 25

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:09:24 +0000

Yes Marilyn that is one of John Palmer's sons thanks.
I am sending family pedigree chart & family group sheets to you & Slowhands to add to your archives.
thanks again
if I live to 100 I will still be in debt to the 3Ms
Kath

Ordering Wills from GlosArchives. (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:06:12 +0000

Thanks Jeff
I do have JOHN PALMER's will 1812 ordered from glosarch but it took 2 weeks & c.A$16.
I also recd a will for THOMAS PALMER 1751 that cost the same but he died intestate!
I saw somewhere that a will can be ordered for less online & Marilyn has confirmed this.
thanks
Kath

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:40:41 +0000

This could be Joseph??

1861 Wales Census, Newton, Montgomeryshire

Joseph PALMER - 45 - Ironmoner, born Flanby(Glos (born Fluxley Glos - 1881 census, Mont. Newton)
Harriet Ann PALMER - 50
Harriet WILKSON - 49
Sarah CHAPMAN - 21
Frederick JONES - 16

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:30:51 +0000

As John PALMER was buried - 26 July 1812

was this Joseph his Son?

Baptism at Flaxley - 16 May 1813

Joseph PALMER - son of John (Farmer) & Mary

------

I see no reason to suspect anything else (!)
Possible for Mary to be pregnant in July 1812 (by John)
and give birth Jan - Mar 2013 for a baptism in May 1813

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:21:32 +0000

As John PALMER was buried - 26 July 1812

was this Joseph his Son?

Baptism at Flaxley - 16 May 1813

Joseph PALMER - son of John (Farmer) & Mary

------

The National Archives holds Wills that can be downloaded for £3.36 (always worth checking for ancestors)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person

There is a Will of William FREAM, Gentleman of Gloucester, Gloucestershire 1848

Value of money / proximity /Wills (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 05:59:21 +0000

leads me to agree whole heartedly with the inter-linking puzzle.

Somehow I've missed the proximity of Mary BROWNING BELLAMY BULLOCK abode to the LUMBAR FARM of Richard FRAME. Will you explain that again to me please? My mind is nowhere near as sharp as yours.

within a mile of each other.. Lumbers Farm -> Hawkins Pill ( on the Severn just south of Broadoak)

Re JOHN PALMER'S will 1812; how does one equate 150 pounds with today's money?

He left 150 pounds to each of 6 of his children = 900 pounds plus 3 farms to his son John so I suspect he wasn't badly off.

http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ppoweruk/result.php?use%5B%5D=CPI&use%5B%...

In 2012, £150 0s 0d from 1814 is worth:

£8,880.00 using the retail price index

£103,000.00 using average earnings

Wills can be ordered and dispatched by post - it can be easier to have a UK address / UK bank account

Ordering Wills from GlosArchives. (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:47:30 +0000

Hi Kath,
without wishing to interfere with your questions to Marilyn, as I'm still awake I thought I'd part-answer regarding the Wills alone. I'm sure Marilyn will give more detail tomorrow or as soon as she's able.

Yes you can order Wills from the Glos Archives website, altho' how they're sent I'm afraid I don't know having not yet used the service. Hopefully they can email to you as would seem logical, although I cannot see any mention of this on their website ??
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/article/107434/Document-Copying-Service

Searching for Mary Palmer gives a Will for a Widow of Gloucester in December 1812. Further searching of all Palmers of Flaxley(parish) will find Wills for John of 1813, Thomas of 1826, William of 1835.
Search the database here
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

Hope this helps for now,
Goodnight, Jeff

PALMER / BULLOCK (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 02:21:06 +0000

Thanks again Marilyn

your reply;
Have sent to Kath some information off Public Members Tree on Ancestry - as John BELLAMY & Mary (nee BROWNING) - marriage on FOD records - Mary BELLAMY (Widow) married Samuel BULLOCK - at W on S - 8 April 1828 -
This in turn followed on to the 1861 census at Newnham, when Lumber Farm was being run by Richard FREAM and his housekeeper was Amelia COWMEADOW - Next door but one is Mary BULLOCK (BELLAMY) nee BROWNING.
So these families are very inter-linked - even back to the surname COWMEADOW again.

leads me to agree whole heartedly with the inter-linking puzzle.

Somehow I've missed the proximity of Mary BROWNING BELLAMY BULLOCK abode to the LUMBAR FARM of Richard FRAME. Will you explain that again to me please? My mind is nowhere near as sharp as yours.

Re JOHN PALMER'S will 1812; how does one equate 150 pounds with today's money?

He left 150 pounds to each of 6 of his children = 900 pounds plus 3 farms to his son John so I suspect he wasn't badly off.

So, his wife Mary nee BELLAMY would have been a well off widow when she remarried to Edward FRAMES IN 1814.

I've been searching for her will for 1815 when she died to no avail. Maybe I should have looked at other years - just dawned on me! Can one get wills emailed from glosarchives?

Her place of death at GROVE in Flaxley Parish is brilliant. Thanks to all
Kath

FREAM/NOURSE/BELLAMY/BULLOCK (reply)

kathg42 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 01:56:34 +0000

Thank you Marilyn for that wealth of information.
I missed your reply until I found it under a different thread.
I will start a new thread for a more detailed reply.
Kath

FREAMS - PALMER continued

slowhands — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:13:39 +0000

from

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41903