Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 29 Nov 2023 00:53:30 +0000

Hi Richard,
are you hoping to get in contact with Nicola ? Well I hope I'm wrong but I wonder if she'll even see your reply. I say this as it was almost ten years ago when she last visited this forum, you can see her forum history by clicking on her username. That said, at least her username is still displayed in blue (not black) text, which perhaps suggest she still visits the website occasionally. If you do wish to contact her, I suggest you also send her a direct email, by clicking on the envelope icon displayed next to her name, which will send your message direct to ther email inbox without the need for her to look on this website. Hopefully she's still using the same email address so is perhaps more likely to see your message, and you can then chat in private which may be more appropriate.
Hope this helps, Jeff.

Henry Francis WATTS, 1881 - 1946 Camp Farm, nr Littledean, (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 10:28:46 +0000

Births Mar 1938 (>99%)
Watts David J Burcher Gloucester R. 6a 482
Births Dec 1939 (>99%)
WATTS Rita M A Burcher Gloucester R. 6a 839
Births Dec 1946 (>99%)
Watts Maurice F Burcher Gloucester R. 7b 804
Births Dec 1953 (>99%)
WATTS Richard A BURCHER Gloucester R. 7b 590

https://maps.nls.uk/view/109725466 camp farm upper left hand side opposite the Greyhound Inn

1939 Severn Street, Newnham
John H Watts 01 Nov 1912 Male Concrete Miner Driver Married 27 1
Ethel M Watts 06 Aug 1912 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 27 2
David J Watts 24 Feb 1938 Male Under School Age Single 27 3

Year: 1946
Month: Jan
Day: 19
Surname: WATTS
Forenames: Henry Francis
Residence: Royal Infirmary, Gloucester (Camp[?] Farm)
Age_at_death: 65
Officiating_Minister: Arthur E. T. McNamara, Rector
Event:
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P145 in 1/17
Page_No: 59
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

1939 Camp Farm
Henry F Watts 28 Apr 1880 Male Small Dairy Farmer Married 96 1
Mary A Watts 21 Jun 1885 Female Domestic Duties Married 96 2
Frederick B Watts 05 Sep 1916 Male Small Holder Assisting Father Single 96 3
Robert S Watts 11 May 1920 Male Blacksmith Apprentice & Art Crafton Single 96 4
The record for this person is officially closed.

Year: 1937
Month: May
Day: 15
Grooms_Surname: WATTS
Grooms_Forenames: John Henry
Grooms_Age: 24
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Little Dean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: WATTS
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Henry Francis
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: BURCHER
Brides_Forenames: Ethel May
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: Domestic Servant
Brides_Residence: Newnham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: BURCHER
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George Henry Sparkes
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Builder
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Freda Burcher
Witness_2: Mary Burcher
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles E Dodd Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/16
Page_Number: 3
Parish_Chapel: Newnham

Year: 1912
Month: Nov
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: WATTS
Child_Forenames: John Henry
Fathers_Forenames: Henry Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Mary Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Pope's Hill
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: F E Walters Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: born [illegible]
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number: 24
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
WATTS John H May Westbury S. 6a 490
Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Watts Annie L May Westbury S. 6a 443
Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Watts Frederick B May Westbury S. 6a 430
Births Mar 1919 (>99%)
Watts Winifred B May Westbury S. 6a 384
Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
Watts Robert S May Westbury S. 6a 629
Births Dec 1924 (>99%)
Watts Gilbert F May Westbury S. 6a 399
Births Sep 1932 (>99%)
Watts John May Cirencester 6a 549 ???

1911 Popes Hill
Henry Watts Head Married Male 30 1881 Farmer and coal miner hewer Pope Hill
Mary Watts Wife Married Female 25 1886 - Oaksey
May Watts Daughter - Female 0 1911 - Ox

Marriages Dec 1909 (>99%)
MAY Mary Ann Malmesbury 5a 117
WATTS Henry Francis Malmesbury 5a 117

1901 PopesHill
William Watts Head Married Male 72 1829 No occupation -
Alice Watts Wife Married Female 59 1842 - East Dean
William Watts Son Single Male 36 1865 Farm labourer (carter) East Dean
Wilson Watts Son Single Male 30 1871 Colliery on top of pit East Dean
Henry Watts Son Single Male 20 1881 Colliery on top of pit East Dean
Frank Watts Son Single Male 17 1884 Colliery on top of pit Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Kate Watts Daughter Single Female 24 1877

1881 Popes Hill
William Watts Head Married Male 52 1829 Coal miner Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Watts Wife Married Female 39 1842 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
William Jun Watts Son Single Male 15 1866 Coal miner Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Albert Watts Son Single Male 14 1867 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alfred Watts Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Milson Watts Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Earnest Watts Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Kate Watts Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Henry Watts Son Single Male 0 1881 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Year: 1863
Month: Oct
Day: 11
Grooms_Surname: WATTS
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: 34
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Popes Hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Watts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: David
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: BRUTON
Brides_Forenames: Alice
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Popes Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Bruton
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He Mark She Signs
Witness_1: William Blewitt
Witness_2: Harriet Blewitt
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry G. Nicholls
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 171
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook

1861 Popes Hill
David Watts Head Widower Male 60 1801 Labourer Wickwar, Gloucestershire, England
George Watts Son - Male 6 1855 Scholar Higham, Berkshire, England

1851 Watery Lane End
David Watts Head Married Male 50 1801 D labourer Wickwar, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Watts Wife Married Female 50 1801 - Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Watts Daughter Unmarried Female 18 1833 - Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
James Watts Son - Male 16 1835 D labourer Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
George Watts Son - Male 12 1839 D labr Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Watts Daughter - Female 9 1842 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1841 Popes Hill
David Watts Male 45 1796 Gloucestershire, England Ag Lab
Elizabeth Watts Female 40 1801 Glo
Harriet Watts Female 13 1828 Glo
William Watts Male 11 1830 Glo
Hanah Watts Female 10 1831 Glo
Emma Watts Female 6 1835 Glo
James Watts Male 5 1836 Glo
George Watts Male 3 1838 Glo

Frank Watts, Camp Farm, nr Littledean, c1939 (reply)

Wattsr70 — Fri, 24 Nov 2023 09:25:28 +0000

Hi my husbands dad was John Henry ( jack ) watts who had several brothers bob ,Fred.Gilbert and several others plus a sister .my husband was born in 1953 his dad was in his 40s then . My husbands brother has done some research into the family. Their grandparents were Mary nee may and Henry . There seems to be a lot more info on this post . Carole watts

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

Wattsr70 — Wed, 22 Nov 2023 18:55:08 +0000

Hi Nicola,

I’ve just seen your post my name is Richard Watts, my father was John Henry watts from camp farm littledean he was a brother to Alfred watts now as Fred, who was the last watts to reside at camp farm.

Frank Watts, Camp Farm, nr Littledean, c1939 (reply)

Mike Pinchin — Fri, 15 May 2020 13:25:04 +0000

If it’s the right family there is this entry in the 1939 Register which seems to show Reginald at another farm located less than a mile north of Littledean,

Greenway Farm

1 Watts Reginald A, M, Feb 20 1902, M, Farmer
2 Watts Jane, F, Aug 22 1904, M, Domestic Duties, ARP Group
3 Watts Lilly, F, Nov 27, 1927, S, At School
4 Redacted
5 Watts Alfred, M, Feb 19, 1930, S, At School
6 Redacted
7 Watts Ernest James, M, Mar 24, 1933, S, At School
8 Watts Mary E.R, F, Nov 11, 1934, S, Under School Age (amended to Bayford 12/8/60)
9 Watts Eric, M, Feb 4, 1936, S, Under School Age (amended to Eric Charles)

Also, it appears he was in the area into the late 40s,

BNA Gloucester Citizen - Thursday 24 February 1949

GLO'STER JUDGE REJECTS £100 FARM CLAIM
An application, with costs, by Henry William Haines, of The Cross, Littledean, for possession of Greenway and Bryants Grove Farm, Littledean, formerly occupied by Reginald Alfred Watts, was granted by Judge Donald Hurst, at Gloucestershire County Court, yesterday. DAMAGES OF £2 WERE GIVEN AGAINST WATTS, AND A COUNTER CLAIM FOR £100 DAMAGES WAS DISMISSED. Mr. Conway Clifford, instructed by Messrs. Wellington & Clifford, represented Haines, Mr. Kenneth Jones instructed by Messrs. Langley Smith & Son, appeared for Watts. Mrs. A. E. Haines, wife of the plaintiff, said she purchased the farm on behalf of her husband in May, 1947. At that time, it was occupied by Watts, and she wrote to him saying she understood that he would be willing to terminate the tenancy with a year's rent. Watts, she said, went to see her husband, and said he was willing to accept the terms.

Confused Date

Mr. Clifford said that Haines was under the Impression that Watts would vacate the tenancy at Michaelmas, 1947. Watts agreed that he had accepted the terms, but said he was under the Impression that the Michaelmas referred to was 1948. Mr. Jones, for Watts, said that on these grounds he was putting in a counter claim tor £1OO, the amount of a year's rent. Giving judgment, the Judge said that in the agreement neither party had enumerated which Michaelmas was to be the date, and so both had pursued the case firmly believing that they were correct.

Frank Watts, Camp Farm, nr Littledean, c1939 (reply)

family watts — Thu, 14 May 2020 15:54:40 +0000

Hi my name is Julie Watts and Alfred Watts and Lilley are my great grandparents my grandad was Reginald and my father was Ernest. Is there any member of the Watts family still connected with Camp Farm or Grove Farm. Grove Farm is where Reginald and Jinny lived and my father was brought up. They moved to Essex is 1930's to Elsenham Essex. He became a shepherd. They lived in the same house all there lives and are buried in the local cemetery. My uncle is now in the property. It would great to hear from family members. email inthekitchen24@live.com

Frank Watts, Camp Farm, nr Littledean, c1939 (reply)

Jefff — Sun, 20 Jan 2019 17:11:08 +0000

Hi Sue, and welcome to the forum.

Thanks to MPG for confirming that Frank was Henry Francis Watts and was at Camp Farm, Elton Road in 1939. When this and other thread's first discussed the location of Grove Farm and Camp Farm back in 2013, we were unsure exactly which Grove Farm was relevant here as there were a few "possibles" marked on the old O.S.maps etc. Thankfully there appears to be no doubts when placing Camp Farm, which is clearly marked on several O.S.maps.

Since the 2013 discussions a new and far more user-friendly old maps website has come online, AND it's entirely free to use. This site can be used to view various editions of the Ordnance Survey maps, all have Camp Farm clearly marked. As posted by John Vaughan earlier in this thread, the maps prove that Camp Farm is indeed on the opposite side of road to the Greyhound pub on the road to Elton out of Pope's Hill nr Littledean.

(It's probably wise to open this and any other links into a new tab or window)
This one links to the most recently available O.S. map off the new NLS Old Maps site, c1924.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101453418

Zoom into the top lefthand corner to find the main "Roman" road , under the word "Hill" (aka Pope's Hill), twixt Littledean and Elton Corner to the east. The Greyhound is marked "Inn", just above "Camp Farm", either side of the road. I'm ashamed to say that despite using this road many hundreds of times since the 60s I never realised until today and reading these maps it was next to an ancient hilltop Camp, hence the Farm's name. The Camp itself is towards Littledean village to the west, as shown on the adjoining map, link below.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101453391

Between the Roman Camp and Camp Farm etc the maps show a wooded hilly area called "Morse's Grove", and to due west of this a few buildings labelled "The Grove". This applies to all the map editions on the website including the most recent one from 1949, see,
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101453388

In the 2013 discussions a few possible Grove Farms were identified in the area east of Littledean and Flaxley - there are a lot of wooded "groves" marked on the maps, presumably plum trees Blaisdon Reds etc, but I still cannot find Grove Farm marked as-such on any of these old maps of any era.
Slowhands' knows this area much better than I do, and posted a link to this Grove Farm which does seem to fit the bill. That said I'm still a little surprised as the maps seem to suggest the present-day farm was built post 1949 at the earliest as it's not marked at all on the old O.S. maps. However the Geograph link he posted, which itself links to a modern map, does show Grove Farm as being north of "The Grove" and nearer the main road (A4151).
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41827

Hopefully this helps updates/clarify things a little Sue, and if you visit Camp Farm then it is indeed the same location you recall from your childhood.

Finally, back to the Greyhound Inn, which as kids and even an adult driver always caught the eye due to their unlikely sculpture in their garden, which is my excuse for not spotting the ancient hill camp on t'other side of the road.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/whats-on/new-owners-pub-landmark-dinosaur-591627

Sadly I believe the dinosaur's no longer in residence and another great little country pub is now permanently closed.

Jeff.

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

MPGriffiths — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:15:27 +0000

Gloucestershire, England, Electoral Registers

Forest of Dean 1939

WATTS
Alfred, Grove Farm, Elton, Newnham
Lilly - ditto
Charles Henry - ditto
Florence - Model Cottage, Elton Road, Newnham
Frederick Basil - Camp Farm, Elton Road, Newnham
George Albert, Grove Farm, Elton, Newnham
Henry Francis, Camp Farm, Elton Road, Newnham
Mary Ann - Camp Farm, Elton Road, Newnham
Kate - Model Cottages, Pope's Hill, Newnham
Lesley William - Grove Farm, Elton, Newnham

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

MPGriffiths — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:04:54 +0000

? Assume you are talking about, William Whistance SMITH - of 105 Park Road, Hockley, Birmingham - who married Alice WATTS - 7 August 1923 at Littledean - from the Forest of Dean records.

1939 Register

210 Albert Road, Birmingham

SMITH, William W - dob 20 April 1897, Storekeeper at Works, Electrical
SMITH, Alice - dob 1900 - Unpaid Domestic Duties
SMITH Francis W - dob 19 May 1924 - Operator Automatic Screw Machine

Freebdm

Birth Registration: June Qtr 1924

SMITH
Francis W
Mother's Maiden name: WATTS

Westbury S
Volume 6a
Page 480

Also on Gloucestershirebdm

Francis Whistance SMITH - Westbury on Severn, East Dean

Died 10 October 2007 aged 83, Birmingham

Baptised at Littledean - 6 June 1924, born 19 May

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

johsue35 — Sat, 19 Jan 2019 13:24:28 +0000

Hi,

I am the grand daughter of Alice Watts and am trying to find out where my father was born as from a sketch of have the property was called Grove Farm,Littledean Road. Elton, Newnham, Gloucestershire. I would also love to speak to any other relations. I am sure I visited the farm as a little girl and seem to remember plum trees close to the house and wonder if this is the correct property.

My name is Sue and I am the daughter of Alice's son Frank who died about 10 years ago.

Any help would be really appreciated as we are hoping to visit Gloucester again very soon.

Many thanks

Sue Harper (nee Smith)

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

pullin — Thu, 24 Oct 2013 10:03:30 +0000

HI NICOLA

I AM RELATED TO ELIZA WATTS WHO MARRIED GEORGE PRICE FROM BLAKENEY GLOUCESTER

REGARDS BRENDA

WATTS at Camp Farm, Elton (reply)

john vaughan — Sun, 11 Aug 2013 14:17:10 +0000

Camp farm is the opposite side of the road to the Greyhound pub. It was being farmed by the Watts family in the early 1970,s. They were more "mature age" possibly late 60,s early 70,s if my memory is correct

Alfred WATTS 1869 - 1962 at Camp Farm, Popes Hill / Elton (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 22:10:03 +0000

Hello,

I have been looking into my fathers side of the family, and that is the Watts family (including Price Family) who have been associated with Grove (or Camp) farm and Westbury on severn area. Though I have got a lot of information on the Watts family I was interested to see if there was any descendants from any of the watts or price family on this site,

also I am interested in any history or stories to do with the families, area and the farm.

Nicola Smith

Year: 1962
Month: Feb
Day: 5
Surname: WATTS
Forenames: Alfred
Residence: Grove Farm Elton
Age_at_death: 92
Officiating_Minister: R J Elliott Rector
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P110 IN 1/14
Page_No: 44
Parish_Chapel: Littledean

1939 Grove Farm

William Watts 06 Jun 1865 Male Labourer Retired Single 171 1
Alfred Watts 07 Aug 1869 Male Farmer Married 171 2
Lilly Watts 12 Dec 1873 Female Domestic Duties Married 171 3
~??? Watts 09 Apr 1907 Male Farm Labourer Single 171 4
George A Watts 03 Sep 1913 Male Farm Labourer Single 171 5
Leslie W Watts 20 Sep 1914 Male Mentally Deficient Single 171 6

1911 Camp Farm, Elton, Little Dean, Nr Newnham, Gloshire
Alfred Watts 41
Lilly Watts 37
Alice Watts 11
Reginald Alfred Watts 8
Hilda Lilly Watts 7
Charles Henry Watts 3
Margorie Kate Watts 2
Gideon Price 28

1901 Popes Hill
Alfred Walts abt 1870 East Dean Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lilly Walts abt 1874 East Dean Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Walts abt 1900 East Dean Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Grinson Pries abt 1883 East Dean Brother-in-law East Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1899
Month: Apr
Day: 3
Grooms_Surname: WATTS
Grooms_Forenames: Alfred
Grooms_Age: 29
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Mitcheldean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Watts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: PRICE
Brides_Forenames: Lilly
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Tidenham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Price
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Albert
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Market Gardener
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: James White
Witness_2: Ernest Watts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: V C Reynell Reynell Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P333 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 238
Parish_Chapel: Tidenham

1891 Popes Hill
William Watts Head Married Male 61 1830 General labourer Elton
Alice Watts Wife Married Female 48 1843 - East Dean
William Watts Son Single Male 24 1867 Iron miner East Dean
Alfred Watts Son Single Male 20 1871 Coal miner East Dean
Wilson Watts Son Single Male 19 1872 Coal miner East Dean
Ernest Edward Watts Son Single Male 17 1874 Coal miner East Dean
Kate Eliza Watts Daughter - Female 13 1878 - East Dean
Henry Francis Watts Son - Male 10 1881 - East Dean
Francis Charles Watts Grandson - Male 6 1885 - East Dean

1881
William Watts Head Married Male 52 1829 Coal miner Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Watts Wife Married Female 39 1842 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
William Jun Watts Son Single Male 15 1866 Coal miner Westbury, Gloucestershire, England
Albert Watts Son Single Male 14 1867 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alfred Watts Son Single Male 11 1870 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Milson Watts Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Earnest Watts Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Kate Watts Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Henry Watts Son Single Male 0 1881 - East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

1871 Popes Hill
William Wats Head - Male 42 1829 - Gloucestershire, England
Allice Wats Wife - Female 29 1842 - Gloucestershire, England
Florence Wats Daughter - Female 9 1862 - Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Wats Daughter - Female 7 1864 - Gloucestershire, England
William Wats Son - Male 5 1866 - Gloucestershire, England
Albert Wats Son - Male 3 1868 - Gloucestershire, England
Alfred Wats Son - Male 1 1870 - Gloucestershire, England
Milson Wats Son - Male 0 1871 - Gloucestershire, England

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm (reply)

Jefff — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 17:37:00 +0000

Hi Nicola and welcome to the forum.
First step is to search the forum for related prior threads. I'm sure you've probably noticed but the various Grove/Camp Farms of Flaxley/Westbury area have been a "hot" topic recently, this thread mentions the Watts too.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=41827

Also see this possible ancestor from the same Flaxley area.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=17773
"Rollings HADDOCK was born May 1817.... English Bicknor. Married Elis(z)abeth Watts June 12 1843 in Parish Church, Flaxley, Gloucestershire, daughter of William WATTS."

Watts and Price - Grove (camp) Farm

nicolasmith87 — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 16:20:10 +0000

Hello,

I have been looking into my fathers side of the family, and that is the Watts family (including Price Family) who have been associated with Grove (or Camp) farm and Westbury on severn area. Though I have got a lot of information on the Watts family I was interested to see if there was any descendants from any of the watts or price family on this site,

also I am interested in any history or stories to do with the families, area and the farm.

Nicola Smith