Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Josiah Evans Harris 1804

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

Muffy1952 — Thu, 10 May 2012 12:00:52 +0000

Afternoon Jefff - Your input is most definitely very much appreciated! My mother's second name is Elsmore and at 85 she is still able to connect many of the dots which your research has brought to light regarding my Grandfather Alfred John Harris' family.It is thought that there was a coal mine in the family which supplied my gg Grandfather John Elsmore Harris ( a coal merchant) with coal in Liverpool in the early 1800's.Have found a Josiah Harris in papers iro Virtuous Lady Mine, Buckland, Monachorum with Sir Massey Lopes, so will be looking at that. Thanks again>

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 09 May 2012 23:38:26 +0000

Hi again Shirley,
just to say I hope you do contact Richard, but please be advised he's not used the Forum for at least six months (as shown by his username appearing black and not a blue hyperlink) and this thread has been asleep for six years now.
For more info see http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?Help_FAQ_General_FAQ#faq6

HOWEVER it's possible you may be able to contact him if you send him a personal email, assuming his email address is still active this will go direct to his email Inbox so doesn't rely on his logging onto the forum and seeing your post. It is also confidential if you wish to exchange personal contact details etc. Just click on the envelope icon next to his name. Good luck.

ps meanwhile hopefully you will carryon using this wonderful site & forum. Are my amateur research efforts in my earlier post on the right track according to your researches ?
Jefff

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

Muffy1952 — Wed, 09 May 2012 15:22:57 +0000

Hi Richard-I have just discovered this site and read your message. We have GGGG grandfather Josiah Evans Harris in common and I have traced you to my family tree. Perhaps we may be able to share research information! I hope to hear from you- Shirley

Parents of Josiah Evans Harris b1804 & Family (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 05 May 2012 20:15:50 +0000

Hi Muffy, welcome to this superb resource website & friendly forum !
Have you tried searching this site's Parish Record database ?.

From this I can find this Baptism (well Record of Birth) hence his parent's names:

Record_ID: 83928
Entry_Number: 47
Year: 1804
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: HARRIS
Child_Forenames: Josiah Evans
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Town of Coleford Newland
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Fry
Event: Birth
Memoranda:
Notes: The Minister (Baptist Protestant dissenting) signs after a sentence in which he declares he was present at the birth on the date given. This is a record of Birth not Baptism
Register_Reference: D 2722 13
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Baptist
Soundex: H620

Using this site's Advanced Search (from link at base of main Search page) I look for all Marriages of George Harris to a Sarah, if this record is within this site's PRs I suspect this would appear to be the most likely altho needs more checking ?

Record ID 27979
Entry Number 101
Year 1832
Month Apr
Day 16
Grooms Surname HARRIS
Grooms Forenames George
Grooms Age [not
Groom Condition Widower
Grooms Occupation [not stated]
Grooms Residence Hundred of St Briavels
Grooms Fathers Surname [not stated]
Grooms Fathers Forenames [not stated]
Grooms Fathers Occupation [not stated]
Brides Surname HARRISON
Brides Forenames Sarah
Brides Age [not
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation [not stated]
Brides Residence Hundred of St Briavels
Brides Fathers Surname [not stated]
Brides Fathers Forenames [not stated]
Brides Fathers Occupation [not stated]
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns [not stated]
Signature or Mark He signs She marks
Witness 1 Mark of William Holder
Witness 2 Mark of Hannah Duddel
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister Yate Fosbroke Curate
Event Marriage
Memoranda [1832] in left margin
Notes
Register Reference P175 IN 1/5
Page Number 34
Parish Chapel Hewelsfield

SADLY though this gives no real help wrt the couples' birth dates or their parent's names... although George is a Widow so presumably not a youngster.

While searching Harris' of Newland area within my Glos FHS 1851 Census cd I find the following which may be relevant, surely not a coincidence wrt name, profession and location (nr Bedminster above) ?. I wonder if this explains his possible father George Sr being "missing" off the above Census returns ie living on duty away from the household ?. Just a thought:

1956 1851 CENSUS HO107/1956 FF. 0083 - 0097 ED. 2B CHIPPING SODBURY

Piece: 1956 Folio: 0096 Schedule: 077

Address: Police Station

BRADSHAW William HD M 42 Sergeant of Police GLS Cam(c1809)
BRADSHAW Mary WI M 40 - Bristol St.Pauls(c1811)
HALL Thomas U 22 Police Officer MON St.Woolford(c1829)
HARRIS George U 21 Police Officer GLS Coleford(c1830)

Following this search lead off same cd I also find:

1962 1851 CENSUS HO107/1962 FF.0254 - 0292 ED.1A SOUTH HAMLET

Piece: 1962 Folio: 0275 Schedule: 162

Address: Barton Terrace

HARRIS George HD M 52 Police Sergeant GLS (c1799)
HARRIS Hannah WI M 50 - GLS (c1801)
HARRIS Charles SO - 15 - GLS (c1836)
HARRIS Kezia DA - 13 Scholar GLS (c1838)
HARRIS Hannah DA - 11 Scholar GLS (c1840)
SKINNER Isaac M 24 Police Man GLS (c1827)
BAILEY Henry M 23 Police Man GLS (c1828)
LEWIS Robert M 26 Police Man GLS (c1825)
NEWMAN John M 34 Police Man GLS (c1817)

George Senior is a Police Sergeant in Gloucester. http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/gloucester.html

You could reasonably assume his first wife & family prior to Sarah & Joseph were Hannah, mother of Charles, KEZIA & Hannah.
However comparison with the 1841 Census for Sparrow Hill on the earlier post is confusing in this respect ??

Revisiting this site's PRs again using the Advanced Search for Marriage of George Harris Sr(c1799) to Hannah gives this which seems reasonable:

Record ID 36130
Entry Number 508
Year 1825
Month Sep
Day 10
Grooms Surname HARRIS
Grooms Forenames George
Grooms Age
Groom Condition Bachelor
Grooms Occupation
Grooms Residence Newland
Grooms Fathers Surname
Grooms Fathers Forenames
Grooms Fathers Occupation
Brides Surname MOXHAM
Brides Forenames Hannah
Brides Age
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence Newland
Brides Fathers Surname
Brides Fathers Forenames
Brides Fathers Occupation
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark Both sign
Witness 1 William Harris
Witness 2 Penelope Ann Moxham
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister George Ridout Lecturer
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P227 IN 1/11
Page Number 170
Parish Chapel Newland

If this is correct then his father is presumably Witness William Harris.
Other witness is perhaps Hannah's mother or sister ?

Again using Advanced Search but for Baptisms from George & Hannah Harris, gives:

9061 1828 HARRIS James, George & Hannah, Col[e]ford, Butcher, Coleford
115462 1830 HARRIS George, George & Hannah, Colford, [Illegible], Clearwell
44367 1832 HARRIS Robert Moxham, George & Hannah, Coleford, Butcher, Newland
44425 1833 HARRIS John, George & Hannah, Coleford, Butcher, Newland
126418 1838 HARRIS Kezia, George & Hannah, Bicknor, Butcher, English Bicknor

Which fits perfectly wrt my suspected Policeman George Jr b1830, although now thoroughly confused wrt Kezia's census age. My 1851 Census cd only gives the one Kezia Haris in the County, at the Police Station as above.

Anyhow hope that helps get you started, off for a late dinner now !

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

Muffy1952 — Sat, 05 May 2012 19:56:43 +0000

I have just joined this site and picked up on a search for Josiah Evans Harris. He is my g.g.g.grandfather.I am trying to trace his parents and grandparents. I wondered if Samuel Harris, Vicar of the Parish of Newland and Rector of English Bicknor,who died 6 May 1710, could be related? From your post I see that Sarah Harris(1771)is listed in the 1841 census, could this be Josiah E's Mother?

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 22 May 2006 06:47:25 +0000

just for the record the first Police were introduced in towns like Bristol from 1835 (Municipal Corporations Act 1835) and then rural areas like Gloucestershire and Somerset from 1839.

So Josiah was one of the earliest Police Officers !

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 22 May 2006 06:42:08 +0000

often comes from the maternal side - but by no means always :-) look at the Elsmore in his sons name.

Josiah Evans Harris 1804 (reply)

Richard Brandwood — Mon, 22 May 2006 06:12:27 +0000

Many thanks - I am most grateful for your time and input. Josiah was my g g g grandfather. I think Kezia is his sister and Sarah (or Sarrah) seems to fit with other information I have received recently re his mother and father. His father may have been George. Although the use of Evans as a middle name in confusing

Josiah Evans HARRIS 1804 Coleford (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 22 May 2006 05:05:22 +0000

an idea ( but no more at this stage)
the most likely living Harris "family unit" in 1841 Coleford/Newland would be

In 1841 Coleford Sparrow Hill
Sarrah Harris abt 1771 Newland Gloucestershire Ind
Kezia Harris abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire Straw Bonnet ?
Sarrah Harris abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Newland Gloucestershire

for completeness

as transcribed
Year: 1804
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: HARRIS
Child_Forenames: Josiah Evans
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Town of Coleford Newland
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: John Fry
Event: Birth
Memoranda:
Notes: The Minister (Baptist Protestant dissenting) signs after a sentence in which he declares he was present at the birth on the date given. This is a record of Birth not Baptism
Register_Reference: D 2722 13
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Baptist

Year: 1833
Month: Sep
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: HARRIS
Grooms_Forenames: Josiah Evans
Grooms_Age: [not stated]
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: [not stated]
Grooms_Residence: of this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Surname: ELSMORE
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age: [not stated]
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Brides_Fathers_Surname: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: [not stated]
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Richard Elsmore
Witness_2: Sarah Willis
Other_Witnesses: Maria Elsmore Kezia Harris
Officiating_Minister: Edward Feild [sic] Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P138 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 59
Parish_Chapel: English Bicknor

1841
Hill Grove St
Josiah Harris abt 1806 Bedminster Somerset Police Constable
Mary Harris abt 1808 Bedminster Somerset
Maria Harris abt 1839 Somerset, England Bedminster Somerset
John Harris abt 1835 Bedminster Somerset
Sarah Harris abt 1836 Bedminster Somerset

1851
Sarah E Harris abt 1806 Coliford, Gloucestershire, England Head Bedminster Somerset
Mary Ann Harris abt 1808 Mitcheldean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Bedminster Somerset
John E Harris abt 1835 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Son Bedminster Somerset
Maria Harris abt 1840 Bristol; Bedminster Daughter Bedminster Somerset
Sarah Harris abt 1837 Coliford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Bedminster Somerset
Joseph A More abt 1834 Monmouthshire, Wales Nephew Bedminster Somerset

1861
Josiah Evans Harris abt 1806 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head Bedminster Somerset Widowed Police Officer
John Elsmore Harris abt 1835 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Son Bedminster Somerset
Emily Harris abt 1839 Kenn, Somerset, England Sons Wife Bedminster Somerset
Henry George Harris abt 1858 Bristol Grandson Bedminster Somerset
Mary Ann Harris abt 1859 Bristol Granddaughter Bedminster Somerset
William Jennings abt 1831 Cirencester, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Bedminster Somerset

Josiah Evans Harris 1804

Richard Brandwood — Mon, 15 May 2006 04:09:00 +0000

I am trying to trace the parents of Josiah Evans HARRIS born 1804, Coleford, he Married Mary Ann ELSMORE (born 1807) on 28 November 1833, English Bicknor, Gloucester.