Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Joseph Mann - The Answer

Joseph Mann - The Answer (reply)

buffylewis1 — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:06:00 +0000

Hi Chris thanks for all your help.Lots still to find shall keep in touch. brilliant site, best wishes liz

Joseph Mann - The Answer (reply)

ChrisW — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:59:19 +0000

Via Liz who is too lazy to do this herself (only joking!)

Birth certificate now received for Joseph Mann born 21 June 1868 at Viney Hill.
Parents James Mann (b1811) and Isabella Voyce.

Liz says census entry is wrong as it says Joseph was born abt 1860.

Joseph Mann married Maria Jane Scrivens at Merthyr Tydfil in 1888.

Hallelujah!

Chris

Joseph MANNS - 1861 (reply)

buffylewis1 — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:47:26 +0000

Me again, i have looked on ancestry and IGI cant find a birth for joseph 1860..liz

Joseph MANNS - 1861 (reply)

buffylewis1 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:30:55 +0000

Hi chris, i have joseph mann on 1871 cens son of james mann / isabella voyce but, is dob is 1860..too much of a gap i think..liz

Joseph MANNS (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:07:48 +0000

any ideas as to who josephs parents were

thats what I'm looking for - or at least a clue that might lead to him in 1871 or them in 1861 /71

Perhaps him being across the River in the Reformatory school is a clue - certainly to a punishment..

my guess at the moment is that he may have been born to a single mother or one who becomes widowed by 1871. As a result he perhaps is mis recorded with another family. Occasionaly you find a clue in a later census that leads back to the family - like Blanch BAILEY (widow) Sis in law in 1901 - I suspected she was a SCRIVENS but she may be a MANNS relative. so just to be sure :-

the only "hit" so far from Brockweir ?
1891
Blanch Scrivens abt 1873 Blackweie, Monmouthshire, Wales Servant Roath, Glamorgan

who on hindsight is probably :-

Year: 1873
Month: Apr
Day: 2
Parents Surname: SCRIVENS
Child Forenames: Margaret Blanch
Father's Forenames: George
Mother's Forenames: Mary
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: S Briavels Common
Occupation: Woodcutter
Officiating Minister: W[illia]m Taprell Allen Vicar
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda: d[aughter] of
Notes:
Register Reference: P278 IN 1/7
Page No: 36
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

marriage

Name: William Henry Bailey
Name: Margaret Blanch Scriven
Year of Registration: 1893
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Merthyr Tydfil
County: Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 921

Name: William Henry Bailey
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 31
District: Pontypridd
County: Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 312

Joseph MANNS - 1861 (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:56:52 +0000

Just received an email from Mike. He has found a Birth Reg for a Joseph Smith PEATES Sept 1861 Cheltenham 6a 380.

Chris

Joseph MANNS - Census entry for 1901 please (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:08:28 +0000

Thanks Slowhands. I am completely mystified. IGI 1881 census for Benjamin & Caroline's Joseph has his age as 20, so does look like that he was born c1861/2. I can't find him on FreeBMD as Mann/Manns or Pate/s.

Chris

Sorry - I've just realised you posted the 1901 earlier!

Joseph MANNS - Census entry for 1901 (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:53:25 +0000

this is what Ancestry transcribes it as

1901 5 Jones Sqr.
Joseph Manns abt 1868 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Head Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Mary J Manns abt 1869 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Wife Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Rose H Serwin abt 1886 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Archie Manns abt 1894 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Blanch Manns abt 1901 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Elizabeth A Manns abt 1892 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Margaret Manns abt 1889 Hevelsfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Rowland Manns abt 1896 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
William C Manns abt 1898 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Albert Serwin abt 1875 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Brother-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Blanch Bailey abt 1873 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Sister-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Charles H Scriven abt 1882 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan

Joseph MANNS - Census entry for 1901 please (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:51:50 +0000

What does it say exactly on the 1901 census please?

Chris

George SCRIVENS & Mary MORGAN StBriavels (reply)

buffylewis1 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:15:50 +0000

Thanks chris& slowhands for your help.sorry to be a pain but,i have john scrivens parents george& mary. john married emma mann daughter james mann/isabella voyce...mary j scrivens abt 1868 parents george& mary married joseph mann/manns..any ideas as to who josephs parents were.thanks very much for your help..get there eventually..been watching too much rugby this weekend getting quite excited..liz

Benjamin Manns & Caroline Pates m 1864 (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:59:33 +0000

An interesting development Slowhands. Just came across this marriage on FreeBMD in Cheltenham. It took place two years after their Joseph was born. Not that unusual I know, but just wondering if 1862 is a transcription error?

Marriage Dec 1864
Benjamin Manns & Caroline Pates CHELTENHAM Vol 6a Page 809

Chris

Births June 1838

PATES Caroline GLOUCESTER Vol 11 Page 325

George SCRIVENS & Mary MORGAN StBriavels (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:25:22 +0000

Just found that on FreeBMD!

George SCRIBBINS & Mary WORGAN
Chepstow Mar 1852 Vol 11a Page 3

George SCRIVENS & Mary WORGAN StBriavels (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:22:24 +0000

Year: 1852
Month: Jan
Day: 19
Groom Surname: SCRIBBENS
Groom Forenames: George
Groom Age at Marriage: Of F
Groom condition: Bachelor
Groom Rank or Profession: Labourer
Groom Residence: St Briavels
Groom Father's Surname: Scribbens
Groom Father's Forenames: William
Groom Father's Rank or Profession: Farmer

Bride Surname: MORGAN
Bride Forenames: Mary
Bride Age at Marriage: Of F
Bride Condition: Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession:
Bride Residence: St Briavels
Bride Father's Surname: Morgan
Bride Father's Forenames: Richard
Bride Father's Rank or Profession: Labourer

Licence or Banns: Banns
Date of banns:
Signature or Mark: Both mark
Witness 1: Mark of William Scribbens
Witness 2: Mark of Jane Worgan
Other witnesses:
Officiating Minister: J Lewis
Event type: Marriage
Memoranda:
Transcriber's Notes:
Register Reference: P278 IN 1/12
Page No: 139
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels

1851
Richard Worgan abt 1789 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Head St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Frances Worgan abt 1790 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Wife St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Charles Worgan abt 1833 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Mary Worgan abt 1830 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavels, Gloucestershire

1841
Richd Worgan abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England St Briavells Common, Gloucestershire
Francis Worgan abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England St Briavells Common, Gloucestershire
Charles Worgan abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England St Briavells Common, Gloucestershire
Henry Worgan abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England St Briavells Common, Gloucestershire
May Worgan abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England St Briavells Common, Gloucestershire

1841
William Scrivens abt 1796 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Sarah Scrivens abt 1800 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Eliza Scrivens abt 1836 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
George Scrivens abt 1831 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
John Scrivens abt 1833 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Joseph Scrivens abt 1827 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Rebecchen Scrivens abt 1840 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Susannah Scrivens abt 1838 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire
William Scrivens abt 1829 Monmouthshire, Wales Newchurch, Monmouthshire

Joseph Manns & Mary J Scrivens m 1888 (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:46:59 +0000

On FreeBMD:

Marriage June 1888
Joseph Manns & Mary Jane Scrivens Merthyr Tydfil Vol 6a Page 787

Mary J SCRIVENS 1868 (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 05:50:06 +0000

record_id 59848
Entry No 120
Year 1868
Month Jul
Day 12
Parents Surname SCRIVEN
Child Forename(s) Mary Jane
Father's Forename George
Mother's Forename Mary
Place of Residence Brockweir Common St Briavels
Occupation Hoopshaver
Officiating Minister W(illia)m Taprell Allen Vicar
Event Baptism
Register Reference P278 in 1/7
Page 15
Parish/Chapel St Briavels

Joseph MANNS 1868 & Mary J SCRIVENS 1869 (reply)

buffylewis1 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 03:02:19 +0000

Thanks again, correct family. can i be cheeky and ask if you can find joseph's parents.i've tried , no luck, i'm sure to be missing something,best wishes, liz. your brilliant....

Joseph MANNS 1868 & Mary J SCRIVENS 1869 (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 02:33:00 +0000

1901
Joseph Manns abt 1868 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Head Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Mary J Manns abt 1869 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Wife Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Archie Manns abt 1894 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Blanch Manns abt 1901 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Elizabeth A Manns abt 1892 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Margaret Manns abt 1889 Hevelsfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Rowland Manns abt 1896 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
William C Manns abt 1898 Troedyrhiw, Glamorgan, Wales Son Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Rose H Serwin abt 1886 Blakelym, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Albert Serwin abt 1875 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Brother-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Blanch Bailey abt 1873 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Sister-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Charles H Scriven abt 1882 St Brevils, Gloucestershire, England Boarder Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan

1891
Joseph Manns abt 1868 Parkend, Gloucestershire, England Head Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Mary J Manns abt 1869 St Bwarels, Gloucestershire, England Wife Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Marg M Manns abt 1889 Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Rose E Schamens abt 1886 Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire, England Stepdaughter Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Mary Lerivens abt 1829 St Briarels, Gloucestershire, England Mother-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Albert Lerivens abt 1875 St Briarels, Gloucestershire, England Brother-in-law Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan

1881 Hardwicke Reformatory School
Joseph Manns abt 1868 Blakeney, Gloucestershire, England Inmate Hardwicke, Gloucestershire

1881
George Scrivens abt 1831 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Head St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Mary Scrivens abt 1829 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Wife St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Albert Scrivens abt 1875 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Eliza Scrivens abt 1871 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Fanny Scrivens abt 1866 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavels, Gloucestershire
James Scrivens abt 1864 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavels, Gloucestershire
John Scrivens abt 1859 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Margaret Scrivens abt 1873 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Mary A. Scrivensabt 1869 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Thomas Scrivens abt 1857 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavels, Gloucestershire

1871
Richard Worgan abt 1789 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Head St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Charles Worgan Richard abt 1834 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Mary Scrivens abt 1830 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Daughter St Briavel, Gloucestershire
George Scrivens abt 1833 East Mon, Newchurch Son-in-law St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Francis Scrivens abt 1866 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Thomas Scrivens abt 1857 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
William Scrivens abt 1852 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Charles Scrivens abt 1855 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Eliza Scrivens abt 1871 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter St Briavel, Gloucestershire
James Scrivens abt 1864 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
John Scrivens abt 1859 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Grandson St Briavel, Gloucestershire
Mary Scrivens abt 1869 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Stepdaughter St Briavel, Gloucestershire

Name: Mary Jane Scriven
Year of Registration: 1868
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Chepstow
County: Gloucestershire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 14

1861
George Scrivens abt 1832 Newchurch West, Monmouthshire, Wales Head St Briavel
Mary Scrivens abt 1829 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Wife St Briavel
John Scrivens abt 1859 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavel
Charles Scrivens abt 1854 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavel
Thomas Scrivens abt 1856 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavel
William Henry Scrivens abt 1852 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England Son St Briavel

Joseph MANNS Blakeney / West Dean (reply)

buffylewis1 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:57:33 +0000

Thanks slowhands,i do think it is the first one, can only find children for him and mary...margaret abt 1889 hewelsfield..elizabeth 1892...rowland 1896..william 1898..also a stepdaughter rose 1886,his wife mary j scrivens 1869 was born st briavels, parents i think weregeorge and mary .thanks ..liz

Joseph MANNS Blakeney / West Dean (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:21:11 +0000

first suspect ( good for Blakeney which he claims in a later census)

Name: Joseph Mann
Year of Registration: 1868
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 206

second suspect ( older but closer to Parkend) !

1851
Benjamine Manns abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Servant Brockworth, Gloucestershire

1861 Gloucester Hospital
Caroline Pates abt 1838 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Day Nurse Littleworth, Gloucestershire
< all patients by Initials i.e. W M, >

1871 Pillowell
Benjamin Manns abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Manns abt 1838 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Manns abt 1866 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Manns abt 1868 Blakeney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Manns abt 1862 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1881
Benjamin Manns abt 1834 Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Manns abt 1838 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Manns abt 1877 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Alfred Manns abt 1865 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Benjamin Manns abt 1874 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Manns abt 1868 Blakeny, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Manns abt 1861 Brockworth, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

Joseph MANNS born abt 1868

buffylewis1 — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 00:16:18 +0000

i have joseph mann/manns b abt 1868 parkend, he married mary j scrivens abt 1888. i have them o 1901 cens merthyr tydfil but cany find him on parish records as to who his parents were.regards liz