Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Trevor LEE, a British Army Soldier's Service Numbers

Trevor LEE, a British Army Soldier's Service Numbers (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 03 Nov 2012 04:45:25 +0000

Hi Nigel,
they would definitely be different numbers given the long time period concerned and the almost inevitable change of Units.
Since long before 1920 each Regiment would allocate the next available "Regimental Number" to a new recruit, to their own system, so it wasn't unusual for two soldiers in two Regiments to have matching yet unrelated Regimental numbers. Indeed as each Regiment expanded during WW1, with Territorial & Conscript Battalions supplementing the Regulars, so the same duplicated number could co-exist within different Battalions of the same Regiment.
It wasn't unusual for a soldier to have two or even three numbers during his Army career due to transfer between Units which was commonplace, perhaps due to reorganisation from heavy battle losses, or if a soldier became unfit for "frontline" units he might be transferred into the supporting Army Service Corps for example.
http://www.1914-1918.net/asc.htm

As such huge & unforeseen numbers of men enlisted during WW1 this "system" was proving impractical, so in 1920 a new standardised system of "Army Numbers" was created, where the number clearly indicated what Unit (Regiment, Corps etc) the owner belonged to

http://www.1914-1918.net/prefixes.html
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/mm/army_service_numbers.htm

==================================================================================

Today I've been researching Trevor's early Army service and will edit this post this weekend to show my findings which hopefully will interest & help you.

atb Jeff.

Timothy Jones VAUGHAN 1847 - 1940 Staunton & Joyford (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:58:05 +0000

Eastern boundary, Row L number 151. It is described as a "headstone with kerb" and the text is:
In loving memory of Sarah dearly loved wife of Timothy J Vaughan of Joyford who departed this life May 4th 1914
Also of the above Timothy J Vaughan who died July 31 1940 aged 93 years
(Daisy's grandparents)

Row P number 219, is "double headstones" and reads:
In loving memory of John Vaughan of Berry Hill died Sept 27th 1890 aged 78 years
Also of Charlotte, his wife died April 16th 1911 aged 88 years

Year: 1940
Month: Aug
Day: 4
Surname: VAUGHAN
Forenames: Timotht Jones
Residence: Westbury on Severn Glos
Age_at_death: 92 years
Officiating_Minister: Wyndham Jones vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: old church yard
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/17
Page_No: 10
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

1911 Joyford Nr Coleford Gloucs
Timothy Vaughan 63
Sarah Vaughan 65

1901
Timothy Vaughan abt 1847 Staunton ND Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Sarah Vaughan abt 1846 Dingestow, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire

1891
Timothy Vaughan abt 1848 Stanton, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Vaughan abt 1847 Dingestow, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
John Vaughan abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Kate Vaughan abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1881 Joyford
Timothy Vaughan abt 1848 Staunton, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Vaughan abt 1847 Raglon, Monmouth, Wales Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Matilda Vaughan abt 1869 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
John Vaughan abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Kate Vaughan abt 1879 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

Name: Kate Elizabeth Vaughan
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1878
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 19

1871
John Vaughan 58
Charlotte Vaughan 47
John Vaughan 8
Timothy Vaughan 24
Sarah Vaughan 25
Fanny Matilda Vaughan 3

Year: 1847
Month: Jun
Day: 6
Parents_Surname: VAUGHAN
Child_Forenames: Timothy Jones
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Charlotte
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Staunton
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Richd Davies Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 40
Parish_Chapel: Staunton

LEE/Timothy Jones VAUGHAN - previous thread (reply)

m p griffiths — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:21:52 +0000

'I suspect it has something to do with Daisy's Grandfather (Timothy Jones VAUGHAN' : previous thread....)

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=32628

Boiling Well Cottage nr Joyford Hill (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:42:25 +0000

Boiling Well Cottage,
Wellmeadow Lane,
Joyford, Coleford, Gloucestershire,
GL16 7AR

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGHP_en-GBGB464GB465&q=Wellmeadow+La...

Daisy Maud ADAMS LEE NIBLETT 1896 - 1969 Joyford (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:37:47 +0000

Name: Daisy Maud Niblett
Birth Date: 4 Nov 1896
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1969
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1038

NIBLETT Alfred
LEE Daisy Maud
Forest of Dean
English Bicknor St Mary
1949 1 276

1911 125 Newport Rd Cwmcarn Reys Newport Mon
William Henry Adams 43
Kate Elizabeth Adams 33
Daisy Maude Adams 14
Doris May Adams 12
William Henry Ivor Adams 9
Gwendoline Kate Adams 5
William Thomas 36

1901 Joyford Farm
William Hy Adams abt 1868 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire
Kate E Adams abt 1878 Joyford West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Monmouthshire
Daisy M Adams abt 1897 Joyford West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire
Doris M Adams abt 1899 Joyford West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Monmouthshire

Name: Daisy Maud Adams
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 26

ADAMS William Henry
VAUGHAN Kate Elizabeth
Forest of Dean
Monmouth Register Office
1895 17 187

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 Joyford R I P (reply)

nigeldownunder — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:13:17 +0000

Thanks for the info. You certainly picked up the correct Trevor Lee from the 1901 census. Daisy Maude's family moved to Risca when she was a child, and my mother and her sisters were all born there. Don't know when the Lee family returned/moved to Joyford, where Daisy was born, but they were certainly there during WW2. I must try to find out when/how Trevor became the owner of Boiling Well Cottage, which passed from Trevor to Daisy after his death. I suspect it has something to do with Daisy's grandfather, Timothy Jones Vaughan, who died in 1940 and may have owned several properties in the area.
By the way, do you ever sleep? You replied to my first post within minutes..............

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 R I P (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:10:41 +0000

I realise it might be a silly question, but do you know if those who served in both world wars, had the same service number carried forward from the one issued to them in WW1?

I think they would be different numbers - regimental rather than unified across the army

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 R I P (reply)

nigeldownunder — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 08:01:46 +0000

Thanks for your info - I hadn't got as far as looking into Granddad's service history, and you've given me a lot to work with. I do know that Trevor served in Kirkee India during WW1. I realise it might be a silly question, but do you know if those who served in both world wars, had the same service number carried forward from the one issued to them in WW1?

Trevor Lee 1894-1946 - probate (reply)

m p griffiths — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:13:41 +0000

Ancestry: Probate Records

LEE Trevor of Boiling Well Cottage (Juryford) - near Coleford, Gloucestershire. Died 26 January 1946 - Administration Gloucester
9 October to Daisy Maud LEE (Widow) £85

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 R I P (reply)

Jefff — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:26:34 +0000

Hi Nigel,
I'm sorry your Grandfather was omitted from the Church Roll of Honour altho' hopefully it was some consolation he received a proper funeral and burial in his home town, and has subsequently been listed on the website Roll.
As Slowhand says such omissions were not unusual, I've experienced this wrt my own line from WW1. I supposed that this was because the Roll of Honour was perhaps undertaken in a semi-official manner rather than by the Authorities who should? know the full facts. Then again perhaps in some cases the deceased or their family requested it, much like wanting an unmarked grave ?

Please note I'm no expert at all in this area and I've not seen this particular Roll, this is just my gut feelings.

I do have experience of the WW1 Roll at Longhope Church, superbly detailed here:
http://www.longhopevillage.co.uk/history/worldwar1/
This states it was "Erected by the Parishioners of Longhope, in Memory of Those who fell in the Great War, 1914-1918". There is another Plaque for those who fought (not died) in the War, so clearly the locals wanted to "do the right thing".
However I know of at least one omission that did occur, so ???

Also in the Village is a separate much more recent War Memorial statute initially planned wrt to WW2.
http://www.longhopevillage.co.uk/history/worldwar2/
This also carries names from the 1970s which I think relate to the Troubles in Ireland.
So not particularly biased to any particular War, but of course circumstances will vary between different areas, all of which have the best intentions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However regarding your Grandfather I suspect the date 1946 maybe key ?

The Second World War has officially finished. Perhaps the Roll of Honour had already been commissioned, or maybe someone decided that a soldier who had gallantly laid down his life for his country still, sadly, didn't "qualify" for a Roll that MAY have been World War biased...?.
In fact I've spent my life studying British Military History and 20+ years working in our Defence industry, yet until very recently I hadn't known about the actions in Palestine in the late 40s, perhaps it wasn't considered important or relevant by some who were maybe tired of all things War related ?.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know what you know about your Grandfather's unit, or his Service History which is not available to me (too recent + I'm not related) altho I suspect you know it. That might even help explain his omission from the Roll. I note from his age he was presumably a senior so highly regarded member of the Regiment, I'm sure his Service Record and even circumstances of his death from Battery Diaries will be well documented at the RA Museum ?.

Hopefully this is of interest from an initial internet search which found these few clues:
Searching "300 Bty, 83rd Field Regt" suggests your Grandfather's Unit may have been something of an "elite" light/airborne unit, which may explain their long distance deployment to Palestine.
http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/units.html (cannot copy & paste but search "800" gives mention of "300 Battery, 2 Airlanding Light Regiment, RA".

Before this their fellow/founder? Unit of the 83rd Field Regt, 53 Airlanding Light Regt, was deployed on D-Day itself, seemingly as part of the Parachute Brigade (in which one of my line gave his life that day).
http://britains-smallwars.com/RRGP/Java.htm

This site explains the organisation and tactics of the Royal Artillery in great detail, and states:
"the strength of the Field branch (including anti-tank) of RA in mid 1943 was about 232,000. The Regiment suffered some 31,000 killed during the course of the war.
Of the 630 or so regiments about 240 were field artillery, excluding about 60 anti-tank. Their designation showed their equipment type:
‘Field’ meant 25-pdr (and 18/25-pdr, 18-pdr carriage with 75-mm, 18-pdr gun and 4.5-inch howitzer early in the war and a few self-propelled (SP)105-mm later. 'Army Field Regiments’ were field regiments that were not under divisional command. 'Jungle Field Regiments' in Burma had a mix of guns and mortars.
‘Mountain’, 'Pack' and ‘Light’ meant 3.7-inch or 75-mm howitzer, or mortars in a few cases. The howitzers were usually jeep towed but some were on animal transport.
‘Airlanding’ meant 75-mm (initially 3.7-inch howitzer).
‘Medium’ meant 5.5 or 4.5-inch gun (and 6-inch howitzer and 60-pdr gun initially, with the latter re-introduced in Burma in 1944). The shortage of medium artillery in 1941-2 led UK and Australia to acquire some US built French WW1 155-mm M1917/18 howitzers.
‘Heavy’ meant 7.2-inch howitzer and 155-mm gun (and 6-inch gun, 8 and 9.2-inch howitzer early in the war), although at the beginning of the war most coast artillery units were also called 'heavy' .
‘Super Heavy’ meant 8-inch gun, 240-mm howitzer, 9.2-inch railway gun and 12-inch howitzer.

http://nigelef.tripod.com/maindoc.htm

If you've not been I recommend visiting the RA Museum at Woolwich, London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firepower_%E2%80%93_The_Royal_Artillery_Museum

I do hope this is of some assistance. I do sympathise that your brave Grandfather is not commemorated in the Church, but that doesn't take away his achievements for which we should all be truly gratefull, I know I am.

RIP Bdr Trevor Lee.

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 Joyford R I P (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:16:45 +0000

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them

LEE, TREVOR
Rank:Bombardier
Service No:803925
Date of Death:26/01/1946
Age:51
Regiment/Service:Royal Artillery 300 Bty., 83 Field Regt.
Grave ReferenceNew Ground. Row 4.
CemeteryFOREST OF DEAN (CHRIST CHURCH) CHURCHYARD
Additional Information:

Son of Thomas and Mary Jane Lee; husband of Daisy Maud Lee, of Joyford.

Year: 1946
Month: Jan
Day: 30
Surname: LEE
Forenames: Trevor
Residence: Joyford Christchurch Glos
Age_at_death: 51 years
Officiating_Minister: Wyndham Jones vicar & Hon. Canon
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: new church yard 5th row No.33
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/17
Page_No: 29
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

He is listed on the Coleford Roll of Honour http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&rlz=1R2GGHP_en-GBGB464&sclient=psy-ab&q=chri...
Omissions are sadly not unheard of.

<><><><>

Name: James D Miller & Dorothy Lee
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1947
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 967

MILLER James Dixon
LEE Dorothy
Forest of Dean
Coleford St John the Evangelist
1947 5 141

Dorothy Lee Oct-Nov-Dec 1920 Newport M Glamorganshire

Margaret Lee Oct-Nov-Dec 1922 Newport M Glamorganshire

Joyce Lee Apr-May-Jun 1925 Newport M Wales

Name: Trevor Lee
Spouse :Daisy M Adams
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1920
Registration district: Newport Market
Inferred County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 433

1911 5 Reno House Cerlton Terrace Cross Keys
Thomas Lee 48
Mary Jane Lee 54
Arthur Lee 20
Kish Lee 18
Gladys Lee 19
Trevor Lee 16
Ira Lee 15
Aaran Lee 14
Hester Lee 12

1901
Thomas Lee abt 1862 Lowestoft, Suffolk, England Head Risca, Monmouthshire
Mary J Lee abt 1857 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Risca, Monmouthshire
Sarah Bennett abt 1881 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Stepdaughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Lottie Lee abt 1884 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Harriett Lee abt 1885 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Hepzibah Lee Tabt 1888 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth A Lee abt 1886 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Gladys Lee abt 1892 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire
Arthur Lee abt 1891 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca, Monmouthshire
Tish Lee abt 1893 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca, Monmouthshire
Trevor Lee abt 1894 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca, Monmouthshire
Ira Lee abt 1895 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca, Monmouthshire
Aaron Lee abt 1897 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Risca, Monmouthshire
Ettie Lee abt 1899 Risca, Monmouthshire, Wales Daughter Risca, Monmouthshire

Name: Trevor Lee
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1894
Registration district: Newport
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 226

Trevor LEE 1894-1946 (reply)

nigeldownunder — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 08:05:11 +0000

TREVOR LEE was my maternal grandfather. According to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission he died on 26th January 1946 while serving with 300 Battery 83rd Field Regiment Royal Artillery. He was buried at Christchurch, and his funeral was reported in the Lydney Observer on 8th February 1946. His coffin was draped by the Union Jack by the British Legion, according to this report, and his headstone is the standard WW2 military type. And yet, Trevor Lee does not appear on the Roll of Honour inside Christchurch (nor in the Coleford Parish Church). Any ideas why this would his name would not be included?
Trevor and his wife Daisy Maude (nee Adams) lived on Joyford Hill.

Adams and Vaughan (reply)

unknown — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:54:54 +0000

my email is griffiths15 AT optusnet.com.au

wendy

Adams and Vaughan (reply)

unknown — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:28:19 +0000

hello please reply my kids great aunty is a vaughan her grandfather was john vaughan 1873

wendy

Adams and Vaughan (reply)

Barbara Lloyd — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:09:32 +0000

I have used the Cinderford Library resources both by visiting and e-mail and they were very helpful. The Library was useful in respect of back dated copies of Newspapers on microfiche. Detailed below is the details of the Library and you may wish to e mail them with your query. I have had great help from Libraries in other parts of the country sending me information by post and e-mail.

Library Service Manager
Cinderford Library
Belle Vue Road
Cinderford
GL14 2BZ
e-mail cinderford.library[at]gloucestershire.gov.uk

As to your request for photographing graves, I will put the details with my own
information, I am hoping to go to the Forest "sometime this year" so it is not a promise to take the photos. If somebody comes up with a better offer please take it. Best of luck with your research.

Barbara Lloyd (with an interest in the Vaughan's)

ADAMS and VAUGHAN / NIBLETT

Millwind — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:29:48 +0000

Daisy Maud Niblett, nee Adams, b 4/11 1896 d 23/10/1969
I found a newspaper clipping dated 7 November 1969 the other day for my grandmother's funeral. The top of the clipping reads "....Forest G........" Could this be The Dean Forest Guardian? The clipping refers to a death notice published the previous week. Any ideas as to how to get hold of a copy of the death notice?

I've found a couple of Christchurch MI's for the Vaughan Family. I'd really like to have photos of the headstones if possible - difficult when stuck out in Far North Queensland Australia! The headstones in question are:

Eastern boundary, Row L number 151. It is described as a "headstone with kerb" and the text is:
In loving memory of Sarah dearly loved wife of Timothy J Vaughan of Joyford who departed this life May 4th 1914
Also of the above Timothy J Vaughan who died July 31 1940 aged 93 years
(Daisy's grandparents)

Row P number 219, is "double headstones" and reads:
In loving memory of John Vaughan of Berry Hill died Sept 27th 1890 aged 78 years
Also of Charlotte, his wife died April 16th 1911 aged 88 years
Daisy's great granparents)

Great website - I use it a lot!!