Forest of Dean FHT Forum - ELDER, Thomas 1818-1897

ELDER, Thomas 1818-1897 (reply)

ChrisW — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:46:34 +0000

From Bright Sparcs & howstuffworks

Elder, Thomas 1818-1897
Business executive, Pastoralist & Public Benefactor

"Born 5th August 1818 at Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland and died 6th March 1897 at Mount Lofty, Southern Australia, Australia.

(Sir) Thomas Elder imported and bred camels to use as transport in Outback Australia. A hundred of them were used in building the overland telegraph line from Adelaide to Darwin in 1872, and he also lent camels and drivers to expeditions of discovery".

"(Thomas Elder)was an agricultural scientist and benefactor and invested in sheep stations in northern South Australia. He spent much money improving these properties, especially on water conservation".

Ann NICHOLS/MATTHEWS/SMITH 1835 Whitecliff (reply)

cltren — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 01:26:32 +0000

That seems to follow - a complex path that provides an explanation for the middle name of Thomas Matthews SMITH. Thanks so much for your information - and your perseverance and patience.

cltren (nee Smith in Adelaide, SA)

Ann MATTHEWS / NICHOLS 1835 Whitecliff ( in 1851 census) (reply)

slowhands — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:53:47 +0000

Looks like that is the case ( or Henry and Ann are living as man and wife)

< as transcribed !>

1851 Whitecliff
Thomas Malthouse abt 1811 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Sarah Malthouse abt 1813 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Matthews abt 1839 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire

I suspect that this is Ann and mother Sarah

Year: 1834
Month: Nov
Day: 15
Parents Surname: NICHOLS
Child Forenames: Ann
Father's Forenames: [not stated]
Mother's Forenames: Sarah
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Singlewoman
Officiating Minister: H I Poole
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page No: 3
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

This may be them in 1841

1841 Cinderhill
William Nichols abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
William Nichols abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Sally Nichols abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Nichols abt 1835 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

and then mariage to Henry

Year: 1855
Month: May
Day: 2

Groom Surname: SMITH
Groom Forenames: Henry
Groom Age at Marriage: 23
Groom condition: Bachelor
Groom Rank or Profession: Labourer
Groom Residence: Whitecliff
Groom Father's Surname: Smith
Groom Father's Forenames: Henry
Groom Father's Rank or Profession: Labourer

Bride Surname: NICHOLS
Bride Forenames: Ann
Bride Age at Marriage: 22
Bride Condition: Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession: [not stated]
Bride Residence: Whitecliff
Bride Father's Surname: [not stated]
Bride Father's Forenames: [not stated]
Bride Father's Rank or Profession: [not stated]
Licence or Banns: Banns
Date of banns:
Signature or Mark: Both sign
Witness 1: C. Stockham
Witness 2: Mark of Sarah Nichols
Other witnesses:
Officiating Minister: John Hawksley Curate
Event type: Marriage
Memoranda:
Transcriber's Notes:
Register Reference: P227 IN 1/13
Page No: 66
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Morgan SMITH 1857 Whitecliff ( in 1871 census) (reply)

cltren — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:36:21 +0000

Now this has thrown me.
1861 census:Thomas Matthews (48) and wife Sarah (46) are recorded at 155 White Cliff, Newland
Henry Smith, wife Ann Smith and sons Morgan Henry Smith (3) and Thomas Matthews Smith (10 mths) are recorded at 156 White Cliff, Newland.
So - Thomas Matthews is likely to be Ann's father?

Morgan SMITH 1857 Whitecliff ( in 1871 census) (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:57:19 +0000

1871
Thomas Mathews abt 1815 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Morgan Smith abt 1857 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Grandson Newland, Gloucestershire

Henry & Ann SMITH Whitecliff (reply)

cltren — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:46:53 +0000

Wonderful! Thanks so much.
I think the Sydney arrival unlikely. I know he was in South Australia by 1882, as he married in SA that year. I am told he was brought to Adelaide by Sir Thomas Elder as his head gardener - so likely that he came directly to Adelaide, but I am yet to ascertain more.

I wonder what happened to Tom's brother Morgan Henry Smith - died young, I guess.

Henry & Ann SMITH Whitecliff (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:00:32 +0000

1861
Henry Smith abt 1834 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Smith abt 1835 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Wife Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire
Maryan Henry Smith abt 1858 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire
Thomas Matthew Smith abt 1860 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son Coleford and Newland, Gloucestershire

1871
Henry Smith abt 1835 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Smith abt 1835 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire
Annie Smith abt 1856 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Frank Smith abt 1869 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
James Smith abt 1863 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Louisa Smith abt 1867 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Thomas Smith abt 1861 Whitecliff Colefd, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire

Do you know when he arrivied in Australia ??

could this be him
arriving in Sydney
SMITH Thomas
age 18
vessel
Northbrook
year 1879

archive reels 2141, 2490

Thomas SMITH - Newland

cltren — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:58 +0000

I have found Thomas Matthews Smith (11 months) his brother Morgan Henry Smith (3) and parents Henry Smith (27; agricultural labourer) and Ann Smith (26) living at White Cliffe, Newland on the 1861 census. However I can find no trace of them on the 1871 or 1881 census. (Thomas was living in South Australia by 1882.)

Any ideas about how to find Thomas?

The only other information I have about him is that he undertook an apprenticeship 5 years as gardener (ornamental). I expect this would have been on a large estate (or Kew). Were there any large estates with gardens like Stourhead where there might have been apprentices in the Forest of Dean?