Forest of Dean FHT Forum - William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin PART 1

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin PART 1 (reply)

harryboy — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 19:23:37 +0000

Dear shepway,
thankyou for your reply too my question, the reason I have not got back to you sooner is that work shifts and time was against me to reply to your message earlier.
I am trying to understand it and want to study it for a while, before I draw any conclusions from the information.
I really do appreciate the effort you have put into the research as I would never followed the route you found.
Once again thank you, also would it be possible to get in touch with you with any questions that I might have, if that is o.k with you.

Your Thankfully

Harryboy

William Warren & Thursa Godwin (reply)

harryboy — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 19:26:50 +0000

Yes William was her father and Amelia her mother.

thanks in anticipation.

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin PART 2 (reply)

shepway — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:10:18 +0000

So we try to establish why the Surname is changed and using the Advanced Search we find this marriage:

Year 1811
Month Sep
Day 9
Grooms_Surname GODWIN
Grooms_Forenames Francis
Grooms_Age
Groom_Condition Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation
Grooms_Residence Parish of St Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation
Brides_Surname THOMAS
Brides_Forenames Elizabeth
Brides_Age
Brides_Condition Spinster
Brides_Occupation
Brides_Residence Parish of St Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname
Brides_Fathers_Forenames
Brides_Fathers_Occupation
Licence_or_Banns Banns
Date_of_Banns [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark Both mark
Witness_1 Henry Watts
Witness_2 Ann Thomas
Other_Witnesses William Hulin Clark
Officiating_Minister Tho[ma]s Thomas Curate
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P278 IN 1/9
Page_Number 62
Parish_Chapel St Briavels

We then search the Census and find Francis at Christchurch:

1851 Census
Christchurch.
26 William Addis Head 34 1817 Male West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
26 Grace Addis Wife 32 1819 Female Newland, Gloucestershire, England
26 Henry Addis Son 8 1843 Male West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
26 Marianne Addis Daughter 5 1846 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
26 Francis Godwin Father-in-law 67 1784 Male Newland, Gloucestershire, England

And we note that he is living with his daughter and son in law William and Grace Addis. Now returning to the marriage of Williams Thomas and Amelia Tomblins we note that the Witnesses are William and Grace Adams or is it Addis? The Census clearly says ADDIS but the marriage in 1838 at Newland says William ADAMS to Grace GODWIN:

Finally we look for a baptism for William Thomas and we find this one:

Year: 1832
Month: May
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: THOMAS
Child_Forenames: William Francis
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Mercy
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Middle Lane End
Occupation: Single Woman
Officiating_Minister: By me Jno (sic) Mountford M.A. Licensed Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Privately: Friday
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 92
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

and this would appear to be the baptism of Mercy - note that she is aged 19 which would indicate that she was born 1810/11 and parents married 1811.

Year: 1830
Month: Sep
Day: 9
Parents_Surname: GODWIN
Child_Forenames: Mercy
Fathers_Forenames: Francis
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford Lane End
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: T.R. Garnsey
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Aged 19 years
Notes:
Register_Reference: 8212
Page_Number: 14
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

One question: William states that father is William THOMAS when he married so was this done to hide the truth or not?

Mike

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin PART 1 (reply)

shepway — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:07:36 +0000

It would appear that there was a change of name from THOMAS to GODWIN and here are the findings of my research:

The youngest child listed in the 1901 Census entry is Brent and looking at Glos BMD for the birth we find this entry:
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WARREN Edward Brent WARREN WARREN THOMAS 1895 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 3 153

This gives mother's maiden name as THOMAS and not Godwin.

So we search for Thursa/Thirza Thomas and we find this marriage in 1884 which could be the one we are looking for:
Marriages Jun 1884
Thomas Thirza Pontypool 11a 231
Waltham William Pontypool 11a 231

and this baptism from our records:
Year: 1862
Month: May
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: THOMAS
Child_Forenames: Thirza
Fathers_Forenames: W[illia]m
Mothers_Forenames: Amelia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born 17 Apr [1862]
Notes:
Register_Reference: D5533 1/1
Page_Number: 80
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Congregational

This is the marriage of Thirza's parents:
Year: 1856
Month: Jun
Day: 22
Grooms_Surname: THOMAS
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: 26
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Lane End
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: TOMBLINS
Brides_Forenames: Amelia
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Lane End
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Tomblins
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: William Adams
Witness_2: Mark of Grace Adams
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Henry Poole
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P145 IN 1/20
Page_Number: 186
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

Next we go to Glosbmd for births from this union:

Births:
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
THOMAS Eliza THOMAS THOMAS TOMLINS 1856 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 12 170
THOMAS Thirza THOMAS THOMAS TOMLINS 1862 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 17 458
THOMAS Francis THOMAS THOMAS TOMLINS 1864 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 19 440
THOMAS Ann THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1866 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 22 221
THOMAS James THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1865 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 21 73
THOMAS William THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1865 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 21 72
THOMAS Ann THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1866 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 22 221
THOMAS William THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1868 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 24 451
THOMAS Caleb THOMAS THOMAS TOMBLINS 1873 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 30 245

and then we look at the Census returns:

1861 Census:
Christchurch, West Dean, Glos
35 William Thomas Head 30 1831 Male Newland Gloucestershire England
35 Amelia Thomas Wife 29 1832 Female Berry Hill Gloucestershire England
35 Eliza Thomas Daughter 5 1856 Female Lane End Gloucestershire England
35 Frances Thomas Son 3 1858 Male Mountain Ash Gloucestershire England
35 Jane Thomas Daughter 1/12 1861 Female Mountain Ash Gloucestershire England

1871 Census:
Barn Hill, West Dean
210 William Godwin Head 40 1831 Male Newland Gloucestershire England
210 Amelia Godwin Wife 39 1832 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 Francis Godwin Son 6 1865 Male West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 William Godwin Son 2 1869 Male West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 Eliza Godwin Daughter 14 1857 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 Jane Godwin Daughter 10 1861 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 Thursa Godwin Daughter 8 1863 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
210 Ann Godwin Daughter 4 1867 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England

Francis aged 3 in the 1861 Censu is not listed in 1871 and this is is death and burial:
Death:
Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
THOMAS Francis 4 1863 Monmouth, Coleford 11 162

Burial:
Year: 1863
Month: May
Day: 22
Surname: THOMAS
Forenames: Francis
Residence: Lane End
Age_at_death: 5
Officiating_Minister: W.H.Taylor
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/13
Page_No: 79
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

1881 Census:
Brierly William Godwin Head Married 49 1832 Male Coal Miner Newland Gloucestershire England
Brierly Amelia Godwin Wife Married 49 1832 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
Brierly Frank Godwin Son 16 1865 Male Coal Miner West Dean Gloucestershire England
Brierly William Godwin Son 12 1869 Male Scholar West Dean Gloucestershire England
Brierly Calib Godwin Son 8 1873 Male Scholar West Dean Gloucestershire England
Brierly Jane Godwin Daughter 21 1860 Female Aberdare
Brierly Thursa Godwin Daughter 19 1862 Female West Dean Gloucestershire England
Brierly Ann Godwin Daughter 14 1867 Female Scholar West Dean Gloucestershire England

1891 Census:
Lane End, West Dean
William Godwin Head Male 59 1832 West Dean Gloucestershire England
Amelia Godwin Wife Female 58 1833 West Dean Gloucestershire England

PART 2 to follow

Mike

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin (reply)

MPGriffiths — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:09:51 +0000

Have gone back to the Public Members Tree on Ancestry

On the 1881 Census, Wm WARREN is with his parents at 57 Jones Street, Newport, Monmouthshire

his father John WARREN is aged 49 and a Horse or Cob Seller, from Lydney

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin (reply)

shepway — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:02:21 +0000

This birth appears on glosbmd

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
WATHEN William John WATHEN WATHEN GODWIN 1887 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 56 468

Mike

William Warren(t) & Thursa Godwin (reply)

MPGriffiths — Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:38:52 +0000

There is on Public Members Tree on Ancestry

William WARRANT and

Thursa GODWIN (1863 - 1929) (parents William and Amelia) -

with this census return

1891 Census, Lydbrook

WARRANT

William - 32 Coal Miner, born Mon. Newport
Thursia - 29 - born Glos. East Dean
Amelia - 5 - bonr Pontnewydd, Monmouthshire
William J - 3 - born East Dean
Kalep C - 8 months, born West Dean **

**
(Caleb Charles WARRANT - with his photograph on the above tree)

and
Gloucestershirebdm - the above birth : 1890 - mother's maiden name GODWIN

The 1901 Census, has the surname transcribed as WARIAN
Brierly

William was aged 45 - Colliery Labourer, born Newport
Thirza - 39 - born Lane End Coleford
Annie - 16 - born ……….. ? Monmouthshire
William - 12 - born Brierly
Caleb - 10
Brent - 5

William Warren & Thursa Godwin (reply)

Paul Andrews — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 22:07:49 +0000

Is Thursa the child of William Godwin b c1832 Newland, Gloucester and Amelia ??? b c1832 West Dean; who was born in West Dean, Gloucester c1862?

William Warren & Thursa Godwin (reply)

Paul Andrews — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:55:59 +0000

Could you give some context please?

William Warren & Thursa Godwin

harryboy — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 20:37:49 +0000

any information concerning William Warren & Thirsa Godwin's marriage would be most welcome. I have tried numerous web sites including this one to find information but have not had any luck.
William was originally from Newport S.Wales and Thirsa from East Dean