I will have a look through it next time I am at the archives (next couple of weeks probably)

S88 - Coleford, Clearwell Church of England Primary School
1 - Log books
Level Item
Alt Ref No S88/1/2
Title Log book
Date 1897-1945
Description At front: measurements of classrooms and numbers of children that can be accommodated, nd [1907-1912]; average attendances for each year, with number of children on roll, 1906-1944
At end, loose: letter concerning school hours over winter 1940-1941, 1940; papers concerning omission from annual averages of two weeks' very low attendance due to epidemic of measles, 1944; letter concerning cook's wages, 1945; notices concerning hiring of school by groups, 1945; delivery note for various items of hardware, 1945
Use_Restrictions Closed until 1 January 2046 under Data Protection Act 1998: section 33 exemption applies; researcher undertaking needed
NumberofDocs 1 volume, 8 documents
HeldAt Gloucestershire Archives

Teddy was a primary school teacher and resident in Clearwell, so I can only assume that he taught locally.

Thanks for the help.

Ed

It's difficult to say what would have happened next, Thomas would have been put into a "catagory" after he completed the National Registration Form in Aug 1915, something like A1, B2 C2 etc.

This would have partly determined when he would have been called up (men could argue that the category they were put in was wrong in an attempt to have it changed and so delay their call up.)

Records that might help include the school logs books, if you know the school at which he was teaching, then Glos Archives might have the relevant log book and some references to him during that period.

If you can tell me the school, then I'll have a look to see what records Glos Archives have, and go from there.

Dave

How can I find out what further action the Army Authorities took? The reason I ask is that I recall my grandmother, Thomas' wife, saying that she remembered the “day they brought him home in a cage”. I was very young at the time and eavesdropping on adult conversation, so am not sure in what context she was speaking at the time, but those few words have stuck in my memory. Would the Army have arrested him if he ignored any conscription notice served on him?
I also note that WW1 was over within 18 months, so is it possible that he was not called up?

Ed

"Dismissed 24/7/17" does indeed mean that Thomas' appeal case was dismissed and he then would have been at the mercy of the Army Authorities as to when he was called up/enlisted.

The image below is his entry along with some others, who you will see have different decisions as to their appeal, which hopefully give you some better context for the information transcribed.

Dave

"Record_ID: 526
Sheet_Number: 260
Case/Appeal_Number: 6922
Local Tribunal Name: West Dean
Local Tribunal Case Number: 545
Surname: BROOKES
Forenames: Thomas Edwin
Address 1: Brooklyn Ho.
Address 2: Clearwell
Occupation: Asst. School Master
Class of Case: R[e]
Date papers sent to Tribunal: _
Decision of Appeal Tribunal and Date: Dismissed 24/7/17
Soundex: B622
"

What does “Decision of Appeal Tribunal and Date: Dismissed 24/7/17” mean?
Does this mean that Teddy's appeal against conscription was dismissed or was he dismissed and not conscripted?
If his appeal was dismissed what would have happened to him?

Ed

And later,

Waterscross had the New Inn in Vention Lane by 1829. Known later as the King's (or Queen's) Head it was closed c. 1890.

Finally,

In 1820 E. J. Scott, a London solicitor, built a tramroad to link a colliery at Moorwood with the Wye at Waterscross. The line, which incorporated an inclined plane running down Vention Lane and crossing the Bishopswood tramroad, was opposed by the Severn & Wye company and was taken up c. 1823. At that time a Lydney firm traded at a wharf midway between Waterscross and Bishopswood, and in the mid 1830s the partnership of William Montague and Charles Church of Gloucester occupied four of the coal wharves at Bishopswood. By the late 1840s the only wharves in use above Lydbrook were those at Waterscross and midway between Waterscross and Bishopswood and few if any of the Ruardean men living outside Lydbrook and Bishopswood worked as bargemen or watermen. The Lydbrook-Bishopswood tramroad, the northern end of which was removed after the closure of the Bishopswood ironworks, ran as far as the Ross road in 1833. It carried little traffic and the track was taken up in 1874. The line's course to the road, winding to maintain a steady gradient, was still clearly visible in 1990.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp231-247

Also see this prior thread and associated photos re a Waterscross ferryman.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=44973

This accidentally proves something I was thinking about when posting to Ed, wrt the old maps site and how placenames change with time. As you know, the Army surveyors creating the O.S. maps were often not familiar with local placenames and dialects, so they would write down what they thought they heard from a local, hence early maps can have errors, and this proves it. Especially if that local was being mischievous as occasionally happened.

Re the Kelly's Directory pages, here's the Lydbrook page
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/resources/kelly-s-directory-1879/62-lydb...

Thanks again Mike, good to know it's not just me with an interest in pubs ;-)

Mike

Glad you've found Waters Cross. I can fully appreciate you're not familiar with the area, so don't worry about asking "silly questions", I'm an expert at doing that !. Personally I think this hobby is most rewarding when researching something yourself, but of course sometimes we all need to ask help from others. In fact I'm not particularly familiar with the Lydbrook side of the Forest, yes I visited my dad's mum's house in Joys Green nr Ruardean several times as a child in the 70s, but I moved away from the FoD in the 80s. It's only these last 5 years or so I've got to know the Lydbrook side of the Forest and thats mainly thro' this website and studying several maps etc; I just wish I was able to spend more time actually visiting it in person. It is a tricky area to get your head around wrt the census's, being on the Wye (the traditional border), so it was sometimes considered Glostershire, sometimes Herefordshire and sometimes even Monmouthshire hence Wales !
Regarding old placenames, as you'll know some names change with time, and sadly smaller places can disappear completely. Only last year a new Scottish site has come online which is great for old Ordnance Survey maps, here's the most detailed one (6" series) one for your area c1891 census; you can zoom into it with your mouse wheel, Waters Cross is shown in the upper L/H corner, overlooking the Wye at the bottom of it's bend, above the "k" in "Lydbrook".
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453358
In case you're wondering, the nearby LB stands for letter Box.
http://maps.nls.uk/os/abbrev/l.html

In earlier years they had "their own" pub, the Kings Head, altho I don't think it was there long as I cannot find any references whatsoever to it in any of my books etc, see 1879 map
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453361

I know I'm biased as I've always been fascinated by maps, but I strongly recommend you spending some time getting to know your way around the Scottish map site, as well as the various maps within this FoD FH website, see the dropdown menu below "The Forest of Dean" on the top blue banner - this site has a huge amount of info waiting to be discovered.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/the-forest-of-dean/maps-of-the-forest

Happy hunting !, Jeff

Mike

"1891 Census; Cinder Hill, Ruardean, Ross District, Herefordshire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William E Palmer Head M 51 Boot & shoe maker. Herefordshire, England
Ann Palmer Wife F 45 Laundress. Kingstanley, Gloucestershire, England
Annie B Palmer Daughter F 21 Single. Waters Cross, Gloucestershire, England
William J Palmer Son M 8 Scholar. Staffordshire, England
Mary Evans Boarder F 76 Widow, retired lady. Herefordshire, England"

1891 Census gives Annie B's birthplace as "Waters Cross, Gloucestershire, England"......Is this the same place as Lydbrook, Ross District, Herefordshire, England?

Blessings
Ed

My copy of Maurice's book is at hand so I will look through for any relevant Brain references. Apart from a first cousin of my mother's who married a Brain my connections with that family name are very remote as I indicated. "Rudden-hill" is all Williams and Chivers as far as I'm concerned (plus Meeks mainly from Drybrook).

Regards

-Colin

As it was relatively recent, I did try searching Trade Directories etc for evidence of the Grocery business, but no luck. What I did find is that it seems most of Ruardean Hill especially the Morse/Drybrook side were owned by various Brains; altho as you say they were not necessarily that closely related to each other by then. And there was me ignorantly thinking wrt my own trees that "Ruden-ill" was largely Roberts territory !
I now need to find my copy of Maurice Bent's book "Highest Point of Dean", to see if that includes anything helpful to this thread.
atb Jeff.

John Brain 69 head b Ruardean Hill Retired Coal Hewer
Jane Brain 66 wife b Drybrook
Jane Elizabeth Brain 40 daughter b Ruardean Hill Shopkeeper (Grocery/provisions)
Joseph Brain 28 son b Ruardean Hill Shopkeeper (Grocery/provisions)
Frederick John Brain 20 son b Ruardean Hill Brewer's clerk

Also records 7 children, all still living

I imagine these Brains are linked somewhere to those in my tree - but most are 3rd or more remote cousins so it's not easy to pinpoint the connection!

Regards

-Colin

I suspect John has "retired" early due to ill-health or similar. Cannot find an Inquest Record for him.

Searching the 1911 Census is difficult using FamilySearch as it only displays records of individuals, but not as households. These individually-found records MAY be our household, altho not sure abt Jane as a common name in the area.

Name John Brain
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Gloucestershire
Parish East Dean
Sub-District East Dean
Registration District Westbury On Severn
Gender Male
Age 69
Birthplace Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

Name Jane Brain
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Gloucestershire
Parish East Dean
Sub-District East Dean
Registration District Westbury On Severn
Gender Female
Age 66
Birthplace Drybrook, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

Name Jane Elizabeth Brain
Event Type Census
Event Date 1911
County Gloucestershire
Parish East Dean
Sub-District East Dean
Registration District Westbury On Severn
Gender Female
Age 40
Birthplace Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Record Type Household

This could be our Jane, who we know was born abt 1845.

Record_ID: 248858
Entry_Number: 366
Year: 1914
Month: Jan
Day: 22
Surname: BRAIN
Forenames: Jane
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Age_at_death: 69 years
Officiating_Minister: James Lawton Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14
Page_No: 46
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: B650

Suggesting this is our John, who we know was born abt March 1841.

Record_ID: 250074
Entry_Number: 1583
Year: 1933
Month: Feb
Day: 23
Surname: BRAIN
Forenames: John
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Age_at_death: 91 years
Officiating_Minister: George R Newman Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14
Page_No: 198
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: B650

Searching this site's Register of Freeminers also shows a few Johns in Ruardean Hill/Woodside, this could be ours;

Record_Number: 1373
Forename: John
Surname: BRAIN
Calculated Year of Birth: 1841
Age: 33
Day: 30
Month: Dec
Year: 1874
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Remarks: Register of Baptism produced
Memorandum:
Soundex: B650

--

1871, Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 28 Married. Coal miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Brain Wife F 27 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Brain Daughter F 8 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sophia Brain Daughter F 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain Son M 2 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 0 East Dean, Gloucestershire

---

1881, Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 29 Married. Miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Brain Wife F 36 Married. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Brain Daughter F 18 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
James Brain Son M 13 Scholar. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 11 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Thos Brain Son M 6 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Again from the free-to-use FamilySearch website, I think this is James' father John Brain, born abt 1852 according to the above 1881 Census, with his own parents James & Ann.
However, John's given age in the 1881 Census is clearly in error wrt the 1871 Census, and so the 1881 should probably be "39" not "29", hence John was born abt 1842, which fits the 1861 & 1851 below, and this Baptism Record.

Record_ID: 76933
Entry_Number: 152
Year: 1841
Month: Jun
Day: 6
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: R.T. Budd
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 19
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: B650

--

1861; Reardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 45 Coal miner. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Ann Brain Wife F 44 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
John Brain Son M 20 Coal miner. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Moses Brain Son M 18 Coal miner. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
James Brain Son M 15 Coal miner. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
William Brain Son M 13 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Joseph Brain Son M 11 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 10 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Emma Brain Daughter F 6 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Timothy Brain Son M 0 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire

--

1851; ???, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 34 Coal miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Ann Brain Wife F 33 East Dean, Gloucestershire
John Brain Son M 9 Scholar. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Moses Brain Son M 7 East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain Son M 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire
William Brain Son M 3 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Joseph Brain Son M 1 East Dean, Gloucestershire

--

I'm a little surprised this family don't seem to have prior mentions within this forum. I suspect they are linked into this thread, please see Admin's post.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=19655

1841; Morse, Ruardean, Ross District, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
James Brain M 24-28 Gloucestershire
Ann Brain F 23-27 Gloucestershire
Child Brain M 0 Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Mathwes F 28-32 Gloucestershire

Looks like "child" is our John, probably born abt late March 1841. I cannot find his Baptism in this site's PRs.

However I can find what looks like his parent's Marriage;

Record_ID: 57031
Entry_Number: 24
Year: 1839
Month: Feb
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: BRAIN
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Little dean hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Brain
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: HARRIS
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Ruardean hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Harris
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Carpenter
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: James Harris
Witness_2: Susannah Hayward
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Chell
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AO19/11
Page_Number: 12
Parish_Chapel: Walford
Soundex_Groom: B650
Soundex_Bride: H620

So James was born abt 1818, but which (if either) is his Baptism ?

Record_ID: 56666
Entry_Number: 192
Year: 1816
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: James
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Morse
Occupation: Shoemaker
Officiating_Minister: T. D. Fosbrooke Min[iste]r
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: the son of. Privately baptised Aug[ust] 30th last
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 24
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: B650

OR, MAYBE ??

Record_ID: 58815
Entry_Number: 111
Year: 1817
Month: Apr
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: James
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Jn HORLICK
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean Congregational
Soundex: B650

BNA Gloucester Journal - Saturday 26 April 1941

GLO'STER GOLDEN WEDDING
Mr and Mrs James Brain, formerly of Cinderford, have celebrated their Golden Wedding in Gloucester. They were married at Lydbrook Baptist Chapel on April 11, 1891. his bride lived at Ruardean. Mrs Brain was Miss Annie Bess Palmer, and both families are well known on the Eastern side of the Forest.

Using FamilySearch this appears to be Annie's family a week or so before she married;

1891 Census; Cinder Hill, Ruardean, Ross District, Herefordshire.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William E Palmer Head M 51 Boot & shoe maker. Herefordshire, England
Ann Palmer Wife F 45 Laundress. Kingstanley, Gloucestershire, England
Annie B Palmer Daughter F 21 Single. Waters Cross, Gloucestershire, England
William J Palmer Son M 8 Scholar. Staffordshire, England
Mary Evans Boarder F 76 Widow, retired lady. Herefordshire, England

Cinder Hill is at the western/Lydbrook side of Ruardean, see this prior thread
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=46805

----

1881 Census; Woodgreen Rooth Street, Wednesbury, Staffordshire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Wm Edwd Palmer Head M 40 Groom. Hereford, Herefordshire, England
Ann Palmer Wife F 35 Wife. Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Anne Bess Palmer Daughter F 11 Scholar. Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Emily M M Palmer Daughter F 5 Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

For background info for Rooth Street, Wood Green, Wednesbury see http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/wednesburybook/places1.htm

The town was renowned for it's coal mines and many heavy engineering concerns, including railway train builders Metro Cammell.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/files/eng/STS/Wednesbury/Pitt1817.html
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Wednesbury
http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/articles/Wednesbury/PatentShaft.htm

----

1871 Census; St Peter, Herefordshire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
William Palmer Head M 31 Gardener. Wigmore, Herefordshire
Ann Palmer Wife F 24 Laundress. King's Stanley, Gloucestershire
Ann B Palmer Daughter F 1 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire

St Peters is a Parish within the city of Hereford.
https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Hereford_St_Peter,_Herefordshire_Genealogy
Wigmore is in the far north of the county,
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Wigmore/Gaz1868

King's Stanley is across the Severn from the Forest, near Stroud.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/KingsStanley/Gaz1868

From FreeBMD,
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
Palmer Annie Bess Ross 6a 441

This MAY be her parent's marriage ???,

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
Lusty Ann Ross 6a 985
Palmer William Ross 6a 985

----

I half-expected to find that William's father was called Edward.
However this looks like our family;

More from Familysearch site;
1861 Census; Mill Street, Leominster, Herefordshire, Wales.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Palmer Head F 51 Downton, Shropshire
Martha Palmer Daughter F 23 Unmarried. Milliner & Dressmaker. Deerfold, Herefordshire
William Palmer Son M 21 Boot & Shoemaker, Deerfold, Herefordshire

Deerfold is just a couple of miles from Wigmore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingen,_Herefordshire

----

1851 Census; Dilwyn, Weobley, Herefordshire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Palmer Head M 46 Farm labourer. Biton, Radnorshire
Elizabeth Palmer Wife F 41 Downton, Shropshire
Susannah Palmer Daughter F 21 Unmarried. Presteigne, Radnorshire
William Palmer Son M 11 Scholar. Wigmore, Herefordshire

Dilwyn is just a few miles south of Wigmore.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Wigmore
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/HEF/Dilwyn

----

1841 Census; Limebrook Township, Wigmore, Herefordshire, England.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Thomas Palmer M 30-34 Herefordshire
Elizabeth Palmer F 29-33 Herefordshire
Susan Palmer F 11 Not in County
Ann Palmer F 9 Not in County
Thomas Palmer M 7 Herefordshire
Martha Palmer F 4 Herefordshire
William Palmer M 1 Herefordshire

see http://texts.wishful-thinking.org.uk/Littlebury1876/Wigmore.html
http://www.mortimervillages.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Wigmore-History-Trail.pdf

England Births and Christenings
Name William Palmer
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 Feb 1840
Christening Place WIGMORE,HEREFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name Thomas Palmer
Mother's Name Elizabeth

This MAY be his parent's marriage, Downton is just 2 miles from Wigmore.

Name Thomas Palmer
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Morris
Event Date 13 Jun 1829
Event Place Downton,Hereford,England

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKN9-LJP

BNA Gloucester Journal - Saturday 22 October 1910

At Mr. T. Whatley's instance, temporary transfer was granted of the license of the Railway HoteL,Cinderford, from Samuel Meredith to James Brain, landlord of the Bell Inn, High street, Cinderford. It transpired that the Bell is one of the houses to be closed under the operation of the Compensation Act.

The Compensation Act probably refers to the Public House Licensing Acts (1904 – 1910). Licensing Magistrates could now refuse to renew a pub’s licence if it was deemed that the establishment was unnecessary to provide for the needs of the public. This was aimed at reducing the very large number of pubs and beer houses which then existed and arose, at least in part, from the prevailing, strong temperance movement. Compensation was payable but the owner usually got the lion’s share as illustrated below,

BNA Gloucestershire Echo - Tuesday 04 April 1911

GLOUCESTER QUARTER SESSIONS

…. The compensation authorities had settled the shares of persons entitled to compensation as follows…………..

Bell Inn, Cinderford, James Brain. licensee, £135, Francis Wintle, owner, £1.067

The earliest reference I can see is in 1870 when it was kept by William and Charlotte SLEEMAN.