Forest of Dean FHT Forum - FROWEN's in the Zulu War.

FROWEN's in the Zulu War. (reply)

Jefff — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 15:43:55 +0000

Hi Rob,
I see you've not been on the forum since 2013, so I hope you see this post against your thread from 2012. I've just revisited this thread while discussing the Zulu War on this related thread.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45231

For the first time I've seen this Roll of men who were at Rorke's Drift. I don't know how definitive it is thought to be.
http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com./battle/roll.htm

Unfortunately Courtney Frowen's name does not appear to be on that list, despite his aforementioned letter being mentioned on the same website ?

I was wondering if this is because it's been confirmed that he was indeed serving under an alias, a possibility we've discussed ? Is it possible that since this thread started your subsequent researches has produced more information about "Courtney" which would allow this thread to be updated, if so I hope you can help ?

Thankyou.

Newland Baptist Church - FROWEN's (reply)

alvic25 — Sat, 24 Mar 2012 18:59:12 +0000

Further to my entry a while ago regarding Courtney Frowen, I have been given a little more information by the Royal Regiment of Wales museum in Brecon.

I mentioned that Alun Baynum is trying to update the book, "The noble 24th.(South Wales Borderers)& he has a letter written by this soldier describing the attack on Rorkes Drift in 1879. Unfortunately Alun does not have some important details, like exact place of birth, date of birth or baptism, compounded by the fact that Courtney is not likely to be the correct forename, but more than possibly an alias,(a common practice those days) Among the extra details are that "Courtney" was Baptised at the Baptist Church, Newland Street, Coleford & had been a scholar in the Baptist Sunday school. I have stated similarities before with the life of Charles Frowen, born 1860/61 at Crossways, Coleford & was not baptised until 1866 in Newland. They may have meant Newland St. - Is there another Baptist Church in the village of Newland itself?

Another anomaly was they were both Militiamen. Courtney maybe Monmouth Militia & Charles in the Rifle Volunteers-Coleford Company. Could someone have also got mixed up with this? Its a coincidence that Charles received no mention in any civil or military records after 1878, In other words if someone has knowledge this is incorrect then Charles could not be "Courtney," as the latter died in Natal in 1879. The other info give about him by the museum was he was a Miner at Waterloo Pit Brierley & after leaving the Rifle Volunteers he enlisted in Monmouth in the 24th Regiment on 5th July 1878 then arrived in South Africa on 21/1/1879. He was engaged against the Zulus & wrote his letter to his parents on 2/2/1879.

If only we knew his age or even a parents name it would probably solve all. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob
Cheltenham

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

alvic25 — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:10:19 +0000

Hello Chris
Re Courtney Frowen

COURTNEY FROWEN - FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND (reply)

alvic25 — Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:21:35 +0000

Chris W,Jefff,M P Griffiths & Slowhands,
Re my query about Courtney & your advice about looking at the birth index details of "Male" Frowen. These results may also be useful for your records & anyone else researching members of this family. I have just received the birth certificate, which states -
Born 27/7/1858 at Bridewell, West Dean.
Father William Frowen, Iron Miner.
Mother Eliza, formerly Williams.
Informant, Eliza Frowen on 2/9/1858.
According to the 1861 census, William was from Whitchurch, Herefordshire, born 1821 & Eliza, born 1827 in West Dean.
Just to refresh, Courtney was baptised at the Baptist church, Newland St. Coleford & had been a scholar at their Sunday school, no dates available. He was a Miner at the Waterloo Pit, Brierley & was in the Coleford Rifle Volunteers. He enlisted into the 24th Regiment, South Wales Borderers, at Monmouth, on 2/7/1878 & was attested on 5/7/1878. He arrived in South Africa, Jan 1879 & fought against the Zulu's, dying of fever at Rorkes Drift in March 1879. The difficulty here is that I am tending to believe that Courtney was a nickname & Alun Baynham, who is working for the Brecon Museum, is unable to verify his date or place of birth.
The above mentioned family from Bridewell on the certificate, are unlikely to be involved as "Male" Frowen, born 1858, ( & who we thought maybe Courtney),is not shown on the 1861 census. The youngest children of William & Eliza, were James born 1860 & Thomas, born 1856. The search continues & many thanks again for your help.
Regards
Rob

Martha PROSSER nee FLOWER / FROWEN 1820/1 Newland (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:13:17 +0000

Year: 1821
Month: Aug
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: FROWEN
Child_Forenames: Martha
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Scowles
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: P.M. Procter Incumbent
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 24
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch

{May Hill on the way from Monmouth up to Staunton}
Year: 1842
Month: Dec
Day: 4
Grooms_Surname: PROSSER
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: labourer
Grooms_Residence: May Hill
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: PROSSER
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Samuel
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: labourer
Brides_Surname: FLOWER
Brides_Forenames: Martha
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: May Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: FLOWER
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: miner
Licence_or_Banns:
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Saml Prosser marked
Witness_2: Mary James marked
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: James L Dighton vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: CH42/1
Page_Number: 21
Parish_Chapel: Dixton

1841
Ann Froseth abt 1794 Newland, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Froseth abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
James Frowen abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Mary Frowen abt 1830 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Baerich Frowen abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Eliza Frowen abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Frowen abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Lucy Frowen abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

1851 Rockfield
Thos Prosser 42
Martha Prosser 32
James Prosser 5
Ann Prosser 2
Samuel Prosser 10 MO
Ann Francen 13

1871 Mountain Ash
Thomas Prosser 58
Martha Prosser 50
Ann Prosser 22
Samuel Prosser 20
Mary Ann Prosser 16
Henry Prosser 14
John Prosser 13
Evan Lloyd 37

1891
Thomas Prosser abt 1815 Rockfield, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
Martha Prosser abt 1819 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Wife Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
Thomas F Prosser abt 1844 Monmouthshire, Wales Son Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
Elizabeth Prosser abt 1877 Abertillery, Monmouthshire, Wales Granddaughter Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan

Charles FROWEN 1860 - ? Miner & Monmouth Militia (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:31:09 +0000

a "strong" candidate ????

http://www.monmouthcastlemuseum-archives.org.uk/regsearch.php?submit=go&srch_surnam...

Frowen, Charles,
Regimental number:7068
Date of attestation: 1878-06-08
Place of attestation: Monmouth
Age at enlistment: 18 years {inferred birth 1860}
Occupation: Miner
Address: Cross Keys, near Coleford
Height at enlistment: 5 feet 6 inches

The CrossKeys, at the Lower Berry Hill crossroads,near the Staunton Rd was presumably that called the New Inn in 1856. An inn there in 1994 was called Pike House.
Lower Lane
Berry Hill
Coleford
Gloucestershire
GL16 8QQ

Crossways is nearby today.

<><><><><>

Year: 1822
Month: Jun
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: FROWEN
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: EAST
Brides_Forenames: Hannah
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Sarah Allford
Witness_2: Rich[ar]d Morgan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Parkley Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 129
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Year: 1837
Month: Jan
Day: 9
Parents_Surname: FROWEN
Child_Forenames: James
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Town of Coleford Newland in the County of Gloucest
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: James Teague (Church Officer)
Event: Birth
Memoranda: HWP
Notes: The Minister (Baptist Protestant dissenting) signs after a sentence in which he declares he was present at the birth on the date given. This is a record of Birth not Baptism
Register_Reference: D 2722 13
Page_Number: 120
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Baptist

1841 Staunton Lane
James Ferwen abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Hannah Ferwen abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Cather Ferwen abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Daceret Ferwen abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
James Feowen Jun. abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
John Feowen abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

Year: 1857
Month: Dec
Day: 28
Grooms_Surname: FROWEN
Grooms_Forenames: James
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Miner
Grooms_Residence: Coleford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Frowen
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: SAVORY
Brides_Forenames: Charlotte
Brides_Age: 20
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Coleford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Savory
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Shoemaker
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs; She marks
Witness_1: John Frowen
Witness_2: Mark of Priscilla Hodges
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Hawksley Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 95
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Name: Charles Frower
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1860
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 24

1861
James Frowen abt 1837 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Frowen abt 1838 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Hannah Frowen abt 1858 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charles Frowen abt 1860 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Savary abt 1842 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire

Year 1866
Month Aug
Day 12
Parents Surname FROWEN
Child Forenames Charles
Fathers Forenames James
Mothers Forenames Charlotte
Mothers Surname
Residence Crossways
Occupation Labourer
Officiating Minister N Cornford Curate
Event Baptism
Memoranda born 15 Sept 1862 < but is on 1861 census, I wonder if the transcription should be 1860 ???>
Notes memo in name of child column
Register Reference P227 IN 1/6
Page Number 240
Parish Chapel Newland

1871
James Frowen 34
Charlotte Frowen 34
Hannah Frowen 12
Charles Frowen 10
James Frowen 8
William Frowen 5
Elizabeth Frowen 3
John Earl Frowen 3 Months

Siblings:-
1866 FROWEN Hannah James Charlotte Crossways Labourer Newland
1866 FROWEN Charles James Charlotte Crossways Labourer Newland
1866 FROWEN James James Charlotte Crossways Labourer Newland
1866 FROWEN William James Charlotte Crossways Labourer Newland
1871 FROWEN John East James Charlotte Coleford Brickmaker Coleford
1873 FROWEN Edward James Charlotte Coleford Brickmaker Coleford
1875 FROWEN Alice Mary James Charlotte Coleford Miner Coleford
1878 FROWEN Lydia James Charlotte Coleford Miner Coleford

1881 Staunton rd Coleford
James Frowen abt 1837 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire Brickmaker
Charlotte Frowen abt 1837 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire
James Frowen abt 1863 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
William Frowen abt 1866 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Alice Frowen abt 1876 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire
Lydia Frowen abt 1878 Coleford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newland, Gloucestershire

FROWEN (reply)

alvic25 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:00:02 +0000

Hello M P
Firstly I must apologise for the delay in replying to you, which is very ungrateful considering all the hard work you have put in to your reply, but I have been laid up with some horrible bug. Anyway I have printed all the information off & found it most interesting. I have been in touch with Alun Baynham, who is revising Norman Holmes book on the Zulu War & thanks to you will give him John Prossers correct maternal family details. Now with your information & Chris & Jeffs input, we can tie up the bits that are missing in the connection between John Prosser & Courtney Frowen. Many thanks for your time & effort it is most appreciated.
Best Regards
Rob

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

alvic25 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:29:37 +0000

Hello Jeff
Very sorry about the delay to acknowledge your interesting reply. I have caught some horrible bug over the weekend. I have printed it off & will scrutinise it all later. As you say, the birth year mentioned by Chris, of 1858 does look feasible. Many thanks for taking the time to help me.
Best Regards
Rob

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

alvic25 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:15:21 +0000

Hello Chris
Many thanks for your information, sorry about the delay, I have been ill over the weekend. 1858 would certainly be near the birth year for Courtney, very grateful for your input & will certainly follow it up.
Regards
Rob

Courtney TROWER, Exeter. (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 23:22:10 +0000

Wow !!
Once again MPG comes up with the goods, welldone.

Without wishing in any way to knock your post, I think you've made an understandable typo error. The aforementioned photograph of the Trower memorial plaque (which is in the Regimental Chapel in Brecon I believe) has itself been incorrectly labelled as "VON Trower" when the Plaque itself reads "VOR Trower".
(I cannot find a definition for Vor, I did wonder if it is Dutch but ?)

If you Google say "Vor Trower Army" you'll get more hits, some from the London Gazette re his various awards & honours. More interesting is a couple of Forums including the Rorkesdrift one mentioned above, plus this one.
http://www.1879zuluwar.com/t2251-lt-c-trower-2nd-btn-24th-2nd-warwickshire-regiment

The poster confidently states "Courtney Vor Trower was born on 17th December 1856 at Exeter ... , Devon, son of Captain Frederick Trower 9th Lancers", so merely reinforcing MPG's ever-accurate findings.

He is also mentioned in this site which contains transcriptions of fascinating long & detailed letters sent home from SA by an educated soldier to his mother, believed to be from Courtney. http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=968

There's also a mention in the National Archives (apart from his Army life), collection of Letters from Sir Leslie Fry (ex Indian Army, Indian Government and HM Foreign Service 1928-1948) including one to his godfather Col Courtney Vor Trower.

Re searching for this elusive soldier, I wonder if there's some significance in the earlier quote that "our" Courtney Frower" was misreported in various newspapers including the prestigious Gazette as Frower, Frowan and even Freemen.
That said when searching the Latterday Saints site I did use such variations albeit without success.

Thanks again MPG for the interesting links.

FROWEN (reply)

m p griffiths — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 08:43:06 +0000

Thought I'd found Courtney FROWER age 14 as a Pupil in Surrey, Leatherhead born Devon, Exeter, (1871 census) but he turns up on the 1911 Census in Wales as COURTNEY TROWER age 58, Colonel Retired Army- with his brother Frances, age 59, also a retired Colonel Army, who was born Umballa? India.

On the 1881 census, Francis Ed TROWER was single in Essex, Thurrock, Captain 95 Regt.

Googling: Wilkinson 1821 pattern Light Cal Officers to the 9th Lancers - this web site talks about CJW (Charles John William TROWER born in Umballa India 1854 to a career solider, Frederick Courtney TROWER - not sure if this helps!

On the 1861 census for Cheltenham, Glos there is a Frederick Courty TROWER age 42, born East Indies (with Courtney who is aged 4)

TROWER

Frederick - 42 - retired Army Officer - born East Indies
Elizth - 37 - born Jersey C.I.
Frederick - 19 - born East Indies
Alice C - 17 - born East Indies, Caunpoore
Manley S -16 - born ditto
Mary K - 14 - born East Indies, Merat
Mark K - 12 - born ditto
Frank - 9 born East Indies, Umballa
Charles - 7 - born ditto
Courtney - 4 - born Exeter, Devon

Jane WARREN - 26
Lucy RICHARDS - 17
Elizth TEAL - 21
------

May be Courtney FROWEN was also born abroad to Army parents as he was a L/Cpl

Seems to be a family name! with possible Army connections!

---

Oddly googling, there is a memorial photograph of Courtney Von TROWER - who seems to have served in South Africa 1877-1879 with the 24th Regiment The South Wales Borders.

www.flickr.com/photos/32157648@N08/3425747073/

also from papers past Otago Daily News - date 5 February 1879 - lists Courtney Von TROWER as a Sub-Liuetenant - disaster at the Cape with the Zulus. (24th Regiment 2nd Warwickshire)

----

FOD records - baptism at Christchurch - 26 August 1821

Martha FROWEN - parents Thomas (labourer) & Ann - residence : SCOWLES

Using the Advance Search to find siblings:

FROWEN - Thomas & Ann(e)

Coleford -
Thomas 1818 * died 1840
Elizabeth 1823, residence, Scowles, parish Newland
James 1826 - ditto (he and his wife Elizabeth, have a Son Thomas age 3 born Parkend on the 1861 census, not Courtney)
Henry 1829 - ditto
Harriet 1830 - ditto
Eliza 1833 - ditto
Ann 1836 - ditto
Mary Ann 1839 - ditto (GlosBDM, mother's maiden name : WILLIAMS) ? Thomas Snr or Thomas Jnr
Martha 1821 - Christchurch

----

* Burial at Newland, 30 July 1840, Thomas FROWEN of Scowles age 23 years

-----

1841 Census, Scowles

FORSETH (transcribed as but FROWEN)

Ann - 47 - not born in County
Elizabeth - 16
James - 13
Mary - 11
Baserich (but think Harriet) age 9
*Lucy - 25 (FOD record, Lucy FROWEN Widow, married William THOMAS at Newland, 14 March 1849)

*1851 Census, Scowles, William THOMAS, 28, Farm Labourer, born Newland, wife Lucy 38, born Hereford, Garway and son William age 1)

------

1851 Wales Monmouth, Cinderhill Street

Ann FROWEN, head - W, 58 - Lodging house Keeper, born Hereford, Whitchurch
Francis FROWEN, Daughter - Mar - 21 - born Glos. Newland
Thomas PROFSER, Grandson, 8 - born Monmouth
+ 8 Lodgers

-----

1871 Census, Glamorgan, Llanwonno, Mountain Ash, Merthyr Tydfil

20 Allens Street

PROSSER

Thomas - 58 - Colliery Labourer, born Mon. Rockfield
Martha - 50 - born Glos. Newland
Ann - 22 - Washerwoman, born Mon.
Samuel - 20 - Colliery Labourer, born Rockfield
Mary Ann - 16 - Washerwoman - born Trevethyn
Henry - 14 - born Trevethyn
John PROSSER - 13 - Coalminer, born Trevethyn
+ one lodger

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 02:14:43 +0000

Wow!.
I'm very interested in military history so this is very interesting, albeit so sad to have two brothers(?) suffer a grisly fate in a few days..
Anyway you probably know of the GlosBDM site, but if not (for my sins I've never heard the Frowen name) but the site has over 300 PRs including that given above, so maybe worth a look for your research.
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/SimpleSearch.aspx

That said and having looked up FreeBMD I think Chris is correct with the above record.

I've searched thro Latterday Saints records and no sign of your C.Frowen (and many other spellings), sorry.

Did find this reference to his grave at RD although probably nothing new to you.
It reads:
"25B/1605, LCpl, Frowen, Courtney, 12/3/1879, 2/24th, East, Died of fever. Posted to G Company on 31 January 1879. Letter home from Rorke’s Drift survives. Names sometimes shown as Frowan or Frower. WO25/3474 contain erroneous entry for this soldier as Freemen, C which was repeated in the London Gazette."

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=702&start=0&postdays=0&p...

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

ChrisW — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:39:27 +0000

Ref the above Birth Reg - Mother's Maiden name was WILLIAMS.

FROWEN Male FROWEN FROWEN WILLIAMS 1858 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 14 113

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS. (reply)

ChrisW — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:52:03 +0000

Is there any chance it could be this one?

Births Sep 1858
Frowen Male Monmouth 11a 26

FROWEN FAMILY - NEWLAND, GLOS.

alvic25 — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:57:28 +0000

Would anyone know any details of Courtney Frowen, birth date & parents names are unknown.Probably born in Newland in the 1850's. He had been a miner at the Waterloo pit at Brierley, whilst serving in the Militia (Coleford Rifle Volunteers). He became a Lance Corporal in the 24th Regiment (South Wales Borderers) & died at Rorkes Drift during the Zulu War in March 1879. I have a birth certificate to a John Prosser, born in 1858, who was killed in the preceding battle in January 1879 & it states that his mother was Martha Frowen from Newland, Glos, born 1820/21. John was born in Abersychan, Mon., but the family had previously lived in Rockfield, where his father, Thomas Prosser came from. Not long before 1871 the family moved to Mountain Ash.
I believe that Martha Frowen was the Aunt of Courtney Frowen, but would like to find out more about this. Martha was probably the eldest daughter of Ann & ????? Frowen. Ann was born in 1794 at Newland & her other children were Elizabeth b. 1823, James, 1828, Henry, b1829, Harriet,1830 & Ann 1838. Maybe Courtney Frowen was a child of James, just mentioned? I would be very grateful for any information on this.
Regards
Rob