Forest of Dean FHT Forum - John Roberts born Newland area abt 1799

John Roberts born Newland area abt 1799 (reply)

Jefff — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 01:01:30 +0000

Yes I saw the soldier record too Mike, Familysearch has it as;

Name William Roberts
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Colchester St Botolph, Essex, England
Registration District Colchester
Residence Note "Infantry Camp" St Botolph
Gender Male
Age 21
Marital Status Married
Occupation Soldier
Relationship to Head of Household Soldier
Birth Year (Estimated) 1860
Birthplace Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Page Number 14
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 1789/71
Affiliate Record Type Household

----

That 1911 census does a good job of confirming this line matches the original post, thanks !

Think this is our William;

Record_ID: 78483
Entry_Number: 3461
Year: 1937
Month: Apr
Day: 18
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: William
Residence: Quarryman
Age_at_death: 77
Officiating_Minister: George Adams
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Broadwell Lane End (2) Section D Adult Gr[ave] (3) M 4 (4) Unconsecrated (5) West Dean
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25 / 204 / 30
Page_No: 73
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery
Soundex: R163

Record_ID: 78344
Entry_Number: 3323
Year: 1934
Month: Oct
Day: 17
Surname: ROBERTS
Forenames: Sarah Ann
Residence: Wife of William Roberts
Age_at_death: 75
Officiating_Minister: Mr G E Adams
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Broadwell Coleford (2) Section D Adult Gr[ave] (3) N 4 (4) Unconsecrated (5) West Dean
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25 / 204 / 30
Page_No: 66
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery
Soundex: R163

(The 1891 census gave her name as "Sarah A Roberts")

John Roberts born Newland area abt 1799 (reply)

Mike Pinchin — Sat, 02 Feb 2019 20:19:45 +0000

Just to continue this line,

Ancestry,

Name: William Roberts
Registration Year: 1880
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Brecknock
Inferred County: Breconshire
Volume: 11b
Page: 220
Records on Page:
Name
Sarah Davies
Mary Ann Green
Arthur Price
William Roberts

Perhaps a spell as a soldier?,

GR 1881 Census, Colchester

William ROBERTS, Soldier, Mar, 21, Soldier, born Newland, Gloucester

GR 1881 Census, Brecon, Cross Keys Inn

Robert HUGHES, Head, Mar, 31, Inn Keeper, born Brecon, Llanwrtyd
Anne, Wife, Mar, 30, Brecon, Llanwrtyd
Margaret A, Daur, 9, Brecon Llanwrtyd
Pryce, Son, 6, Brecon, St. Mary
Sarah ROBERTS, Serv., 22, General Serv., Brecon, St. John (no entry in the Marriage column)

GR 1891 Census, West Dean, Broadwell Lane End

William ROBERTS, Head, Mar, 31, Coal Miner, born Glos, West Dean
Sarah A, Wife, Mar, 30, Wales, Brecon
Gertrude E, Daur, 9, Essex, Colchester
Margaret A, Daur, 5, Ireland, Kilkenney
John H, Son, 1, Glos, West Dean

GR 1901 Census, West Dean, Broadwell Lane End

William ROBERTS, Head, Mar, 40, Stone Machine Labourer, born West Dean, Gloucester
Sarah, Wife, Mar, 40, South Wales, Glamorgan
Gertrude, Daur, 19, Colchester, Essex
John, Son, 11, West Dean, Gloucester
Charles, Son, 9, West Dean, Gloucester
Gladys, Daur, 2, West Dean, Gloucester
George MANSELL, Boarder, S, 20, Stone Mason’s Labourer, “Don’t know”

GR 1911 Census, Broadwell, Coleford, Glos-shire

William ROBERTS, Head, 52, Married, General Coal Haulier above ground, Gloucestershire, Broadwell, Coleford
Sarah, Wife, 53, Married, Brecon, South Wales
Gladys, Daughter, 13, Gloucestershire, Broadwell, Coleford
Lily, Daughter, 7, Gloucestershire, Broadwell, Coleford
John, Son, 21, Saw Man at Stone Works above ground, Gloucestershire, Broadwell, Coleford
Charles, Son, 19, Collier Trammer below ground, Gloucestershire, Broadwell, Coleford

30 years married, 12 children, 6 living, 6 died
4 rooms in the house

John Roberts born Newland area abt 1799 (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 20:27:38 +0000

Ideally needs more evidence, but from my QUICK look at the available PRs, this MIGHT be the parents' marriage;

Record_ID: 183410
Entry_Number: 52
Year: 1823
Month: Jun
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: ROBERTS
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: [not stated]
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Hundred of St. Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: FROWEN
Brides_Forenames: Susan
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Hundred of St. Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Mark of Thomas Jones
Witness_2: Mark of Elizabeth Roberts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: John Barnes Bourne Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P310 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Staunton
Soundex_Groom: R163
Soundex_Bride: F650

Could witness Elizabeth Roberts be John's mother or sister ?

The PRs contain 10 baptisms for "John Roberts born abt 1799".... this is easliy the best fit;

Record_ID: 99464
Entry_Number:
Year: 1798
Month: Sep
Day: 23
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: E [illegible]
Notes: Memo could be [ministers] signature. Any abbreviated forenames have been expanded to the full name
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 25
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: R163

---

This seems a good fit for our Susannah Frowen ?

Record_ID: 392963
Entry_Number:
Year: 1803
Month: Jan
Day: 23
Parents_Surname: FROWEN
Child_Forenames: Susannah
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 17
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: F650

Record_ID: 149090
Entry_Number: 431
Year: 1792
Month: Jul
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: FROWEN
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition:
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: DOWARD
Brides_Forenames: Anne
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition:
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newland
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Edw[ar]d Mousil
Witness_2: Thos Bond
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: P Ball vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 685
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex_Groom: F650
Soundex_Bride: D630

This site's PRs contain several Baptisms which probably relate to this couple, but I'll leave that to you Linda.

Please double-check these last few suggestions for yourself..
Hopefully you'll find the above "grandparents" are in the 1841 etc census, and hopefully living near to their children, especially your John & Susannah.

Also worth searching this forum for related prior-threads, although I think both Roberts and Frowen are fairly common names locally so will take careful sorting.

atb J

William Roberts (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:14:33 +0000

Hi Linda,
Don't knock yourself, I for one think it's better to fail trying, rather than not to try at all. Not that you failed of course, plus it's more rewarding doing one's own research. If it's any consolation, and I'm NOT pretending I'm an expert in any way. despite my 10 years experience it's still taken me a few hours finding him, and this was only with the considerable help of the posts above wrt his parents' names etc !

I guess it all depends on what resources website or whatever you've been using when searching the Census', I "only" have FamilySearch to rely on, but even when I had Ancestry subscription I often found it better to use other sites as well when the going got tough. It didn't help that his name isn't the rarest in our area, and sometimes our what initial search input data is too prescise ? Eg maybe your searches were too narrow regarding his age, or locality (often need to include "Monmouthshire" and/or "Wales" when searching the Coleford area), so this maybe combined to stop you finding all the answers, altho' you did find the Baglin link so....

Anyhow, using FamilySearch I eventually found the following;

1861 Coalway Lane End, West Dean, Monmouthshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Baglin Head M 54 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Baglin Wife F 29 Whitechurch, Herefordshire
William Roberts Visitor M 2 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Page Number 7
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 3982 / 68

1861 Coalway Lane End, West Dean, Monmouthshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Roberts Head M 31 Labourer. Coleford Newland, Gloucestershire
Esther Roberts Wife F 29 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Susan Roberts Daughter F 10 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Lydia Roberts Daughter F 8 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Page Number 6
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 3982 / 67

1871 Palmer Flat, West Dean, Monmouthshire, Wales.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Annie Dobbs Daughter F 3 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Jno Roberts Boarder M 45 Widowed. Stonecutter. Newland, Gloucestershire
William Roberts Boarder M 11 Stonecutter. West Dean, Gloucestershire

Think this is William's father John born abt 1829, as per the 1861 census, with his parents John & Susanna;

1841 Coalwaylanend, Dean Forest, Gloucestershire, England.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Birthplace
John Roberts M 40-44 Gloucestershire
Susanna Roberts F 35-39 Gloucestershire
Eliza Roberts F 17-21 Gloucestershire
Caroline Roberts F 14 Gloucestershire
John Roberts M 12 Gloucestershire
Emma Roberts F 10 Gloucestershire
Daniel Roberts M 8 Gloucestershire
Henrietta Roberts F 4 Gloucestershire
James Roberts M 2 Gloucestershire
Mary Anne Roberts F 1 Gloucestershire

This site's PR have his baptism, which helpfully confirm's his exact birthdate. and his father's occupation seems to confirm this is indeed our family;

Record_ID: 100720
Entry_Number:
Year: 1835
Month: Mar
Day: 4
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: John
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Susanna
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Coleford
Occupation: Stonecutter
Officiating_Minister: George Roberts BA Perpet: Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: born August 15 1828
Notes:
Register_Reference: P93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 5
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex: R163

There are also PRs for several of his siblings (with many familiar first names), many are on the same day. It may be easier to search the full PRs using just parents' names.

Year Surname First Name Fathers Forename Mothers Forename Event Parish/Chapel More detail
1835 ROBERTS Eliza John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1835 ROBERTS Elizabeth John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1835 ROBERTS John John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1835 ROBERTS Emma John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1835 ROBERTS Daniel John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1835 ROBERTS Mary Ann John Susanna Baptism Coleford More detail
1836 ROBERTS Henrietta John Susan Baptism Coleford More detail
1839 ROBERTS James John Susannah Baptism Coleford More detail

I'm pleasantly surprised to see no obvious signs of infant mortality, suggesting they were well-fed and well cared-for, hopefully the evidence of subsequent PRs continue this happy start to the family fortunes.

1851 Lane End, Monmouthshire, Wales.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Roberts Head M 52 Quarryman, Newland, Gloucestershire
Sushanah Roberts Wife F 50 Newland, Gloucestershire
Emele Roberts Daughter F 21 Newland, Gloucestershire
Daniel Roberts Son M 19 Quarryman. Newland, Gloucestershire
Henrietta Roberts Daughter F 14 Newland, Gloucestershire
James Roberts Son M 12 Newland, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Roberts Daughter F 10 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Alford Roberts Son M 6 West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Roberts Grand Son M 8 West Dean, Gloucestershire

etc etc
???

William Roberts (reply)

MPGriffiths — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 16:09:20 +0000

Looking at the GRO INDEX - There is this birth

James Daniel ROBERTS, 1857 Monmouth District, Mother's maiden name: BARNARD

buried 14 January 1859 aged 2, (James ROBERTS) at Newland: son of John & Esther

William Roberts (reply)

Linda Jackson — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:48:02 +0000

Thank you so much for this. I’ve spent days trying to find them. I was guessing that the John Roberts who shared the lodgings was his dad, but as I couldn’t find his marriage, I thought maybe the same surnames were a coincidence. I don’t know why I wasted my time, I should have asked an expert in the first place. Thanks again for this and I’m impressed with the speedy response.

William Roberts (reply)

MPGriffiths — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:51:56 +0000

Quick look for children of John & Esther ROBERTS

Susan 1851 - Parish of Newland
Lydia 1852 - Parish of Clearwell - John is a Stone Cutter
John 1854 - Parish of Coleford
John 1855 - Parish of Clearwell

1851 Census, Lane End, West Dean

ROBERTS

John - 22
Esther - 20
Susan - 9 months

William Roberts (reply)

shepway — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:42:01 +0000

There is a birth registration in 1859 as follows:
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ROBERTS, WILLIAM BARNARD
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 34

There is a marriage on 6 November 1849 at Parkend between John Roberts and Esther Barnard. Full details in Parish Records on this site and if you look at the 1861 Census page following the entry for William you will see the family.

In 1861 Esther died and her burial record is on this site.

Looking at the 1871 Census entry for William you will see he is with his father who is described as Widower.

Mike

William Roberts

Linda Jackson — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 09:07:43 +0000

Does anyone have any data on William Roberts born abt. 1860 in Newland/Broadwell. He married Sarah Davies from Brecknock, Brecon in 1880. There is a record in the 1861 census of him living with the Baglin family and the 1871 shows him as a boarder with the Dobbs family. I’m looking for the names of his parents, but as I can’t find a baptism record for him, I’m about to give up. He is my great grandfather. His daughter Gladys Smith is my grandmother.