Thanks to your steer I have found this in the Momouthshire Beacon.
It really sealed the facts uncovered earlier.
Cass

Aged 37, occupation: Nailer

Charged on the oath of Ann the wife of Thos PITT alias BERGUM with having on the 19 day of February last at Little Dean Hill in the Hundred of St Briavels in the said County of Gloucester committed a violent assault upon her the said Ann PITT alias BURGUM

--

? Burial at Littledean

30 August 1840

Ann PITT aged 53, Hundred of St Briavels

2 March 1829

Alexander GWILLIAM

Assaulting Anne, wife of Thomas PITT alias BURGUM at Littledean Hill in St Briavels, Hundred.

Rev C Crawley, JP and J PYRKE, JP at Newnham

Foined £2 each to be paid to John LUCAS of Newnham, gentleman and 16/6 costs each, or two months in Littledean House of Correction.

Crimed committed 19 February 1829.

Calendars of Prisoners, Berkeley, Cirencester, Northgate (Gloucester) Lawfords Gate (Bristol) and Winchombe

11 July 1861

James BURGAN alias PITT aged 43 (c1818) - simple larceny - 1 month - first time

5' 9 and a half inches tall, light brown hair, hazel eyes, sallow complexion, blind left eye

----

July 26 1876

James BURGAN, Lttledean, labourer aged 60 (c1816)

5' 7 inches tall, grey eyes, brown hair, blind left eye, rupture on left side, large scar outside left k ee

Assaulting and beating his wife Easther BURGAND at Little Dean on the 24 July 1876

----

On his marriage to Esther, James says his father was Thomas

Baptism at Littledean

18 October 1818

James PITT, father : Thomas (Charcoal Burner) & Ann

residence: Hundred of St Briavels

---

?

Marragie at English Bicknor

1 December 1814

Thomas BURGUM and Ann PERKINS - witnesses: Thomas PERKINS and Mary BURGUM (with consent of parents)

James Burgum, otherwise Pitt, of Cinderford, laborer, was charged with having at Middle Ridge Inclosure, in the township of East Dean, on Tuesday, the Ist instant, unlawfully, wilfully, and maliciously, committed damage on certain property belonging to Her Majesty the Queen, by cutting a live lime tree growing in the said inclosure, and thereby doing damage to the amount of Is.—John Peal stated that he was employed under the Crown, and, on going from his work on the Ist instant, saw the defendant come out of the inclosure, and asked him where he had been. He said he had been cutting a stick. Witness told him that he had been cutting one of the lime trees.—Defendant admitted the offence, but said he did not know it was a lime tree, being rather dark at the time.—Fined 2s. 6d. and costs.

This fits well with what we know of Esther.

Mike

Church

Nat. Newland, Glos, known to P C Wood 1 year nothing else agst her - husband, James "Vegar" Woodside, Cinderford, Glos.

BURGUM Esther

13 April 1883 - Littledean

Misconduct in Union

days day - Imp

age 64

height 5" 3 and a half inches
eyes: BD Bro

Pauper

Reglion: Church, Whitecliffe

Number of previous convictions: 2 date of last entry: 5 February 1878

I have yet to find them in the 1881 Census and thereby confirm this marriage is relevant. However there is an entry in Gloucester Prison records as follows:
Name: Esther Burgum
Age: 64
Record Type: Nominal Prisoners' Registers
Birth Year: abt 1819
Birth Place: Whitadiffe (should read Whitecliffe)
Conviction or Committal Date: 13 Apr 1883
Gaol or Prison: The County Gaol
Gaol or Prison Place: Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Discharge Date: 26 Apr 1883

Esther's age does not match. Perhaps there is a Newspaper Report that may be helpful?

Mike

1841 Whitecliff, Newland, Gloucestershire, England, United Kingdom
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Ann Tomblins F 45 Gloucestershire
Tom Smith M 21 Gloucestershire
Ann Smith F 18 Gloucestershire
Charlotte Tomlins F 15 Gloucestershire
Henry Tomlins M 11 Gloucestershire

Guessing Ann is mother of Charlotte & Henry ?.
Suspect Ann's husband was Henry, as per marriage of their (first?) son Henry, below.

Hence

Record_ID: 70346
Entry_Number: 345
Year: 1825
Month: Nov
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: TOMBLINS
Child_Forenames: Charlotte
Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Short Standing
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: T.R. Garnsey Incumbent
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 44
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: T514

---

Not a rare name locally, but is this our Ann, cannot find her in later census;

Record_ID: 265447
Entry_Number: 2068
Year: 1842
Month: May
Day: 11
Surname: TOMLINS
Forenames: Anne
Residence: Col[e]ford
Age_at_death: Years 46
Officiating_Minister: T[heophilus] Morgan Off[ciaitin]g Minister
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/16
Page_No: 259
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: T545

Record_ID: 392503
Entry_Number:
Year: 1798
Month: Apr
Day: 8
Parents_Surname: TOMLINS
Child_Forenames: Anne
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Eliz[abe]th
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Berryhill
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 853
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: T545

???

---

Could this be Charlotte's older brother Henry ?, age fits. Is witness Sarah Roberts same as 1861 census below.

Record_ID: 151347
Entry_Number: 37
Year: 1852
Month: Aug
Day: 2
Grooms_Surname: TOMLINS
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Servant
Grooms_Residence: Coleford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Tomlins
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: VAUGHAN
Brides_Forenames: Ann
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Coleford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Vaughan
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Henry[?] White
Witness_2: Mark of Sarah Roberts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: George Ridout Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 19
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex_Groom: T545
Soundex_Bride: V250

1861 Stanton Rd, Newland Coleford, Monmouthshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Sarah Roberts Head F 45 Married. Dressmaker. West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Tombling Visitor M 14 At school. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Mary Tombling Visitor F 12 At school. Coleford, Gloucestershire
John Madin Lodger M 50 Ag lab. Ireland

(Stanton = Staunton, west of Newland and Coleford toward Kymin, Monmouth).
Thomas & Mary Ann are Charlotte's children as previous post.

But where's Charlotte now ?. Looks like she's died or moved away, and Sarah's now "adopted" them ?.
Cannot find her anywhere for sure ??? ...

1871 Coleford, Monmouthshire, Wales, United Kingdom
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Ann Allen Head F 48 Widowed. Shortstanding, Gloucestershire
Harriet A Bird Niece F 5 Beaufort, Monmouthshire
John Sweeney Lodger M 63 Pedlar. Ireland
Mary Ann Tomlins Niece F 20 Charwoman. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Tomlins Niece F 18 Servant. Coleford, Gloucestershire

=========

Not sure if this household is relevant - seemed likely but I now see not rare names in this locality;

???

1871 Coleford, Monmouthshire, Wales.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Tomblins Head F 53 Widowed. Coal miner. Monmouth, Monmouthshire
Hubert Tomblins Son M 19 Coal miner. West Dean, Gloucestershire
Henery Tomblins Son M 16 Coal miner. West Dean, Gloucestershire
Albert Tomblins Son M 8 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Salina Tomblins Daughter F 13 West Dean, Gloucestershire
Harriette Gwilliam Lodger F 18 West Dean, Gloucestershire

1881 West Dean (Gloucs), Monmouth District, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Tomblings Head F 65 Widow. No occupation. Kymin, Monmouthshire, England
Albert Tomblings Son M 19 Coal miner. Five Acres, Gloucestershire, England
William Tomblings Son M 26 Widower. Coal miner. Five Acres, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Tomblings Grand Daughter F 4 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales
Elizabeth Tomblings Grand Daughter F 1 Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales

1891 Christchurch, West Dean (Gloucs), Monmouth District, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Elizabeth Tomlines Head F 74 Widowed. Monmouthshire, England
Emma Tomlines Granddaughter F 13 Monmouthshire, England
Elizabeth Tomlines Granddaughter F 10 Monmouthshire, England

In short, yes of course Ancestry is excellent in many ways, it's also cheaper than many of the competitors, or even free at librairies. I like FindMyPast as it offers different record sets, but I dislike using the site, finding it less user-friendly than Ancestry. I'm about to start a free trial with The Genealogist, which many reviews say is best of the lot.... we'll see.

In my engineering career it's proven best to use as many sources of reference as possible, to get a full,rounded and unbiased knowledge of a given subject. I recommend you try to use different websites and not just one. Even when I have an Ancestry sub, perhaps one of their free weekends, I will still use the FreeBMD, GlosBMD and FamilySearch sites as well. In fact I'd probably start with these before logging into Ancestry. They all have their pros & cons, but best to use them all rather than place all ones research eggs in one basket.

Hoping this helps,
Jeff.

PS: Oh and yes !, well-done again to the two Mikes for their brilliant finds, without which I'd still be floundering. My motto in my working life seems to have transferred to my efforts on this forum - I'm keen, cheap and available. Trouble is sometimes that's not enough and we need proper researchers like the two Mikes !
Thanks guys !

Thank you, thank you, thank you,
This is so obviously right on the button.
Even if I had found the 1871 workhouse records I would never have discovered that news item, even though I subscribe to BNA.
I still do not know why the Ancestry census search did not reveal those workhouse records for me, but this has sorted the mystery very nicely.
Thanks again to Jeff, Mike and yourself. You have pulled a thorn from my side that has been there for years ...

Cass

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
ABBOTT Edwin TOMBLINS Charlotte Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office Closed 1848 3 87

and the 1851 Census tells us that he is aged 27, born in Bredon, Worcestershire, married and living alone in Gloucester Road, Coleford. In a neighbouring property are 2 children - Thomas Abbot aged 4 and Mary Abbot aged 2.

Here are the baptisms of the 2 children:

Year: 1846
Month: Sep
Day: 25
Parents_Surname: ABBOTT
Child_Forenames: Thomas
Fathers_Forenames: Edwin
Mothers_Forenames: Charlotte
Mothers_Surname: Bird
Residence: Whitecliff
Occupation: Sweep
Officiating_Minister: J L Sisson DDPerpetual Curate Coleford
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Singlewoman; illegitimate child
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 78
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

Year: 1851
Month: Jan
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: ABBOTT
Child_Forenames: Mary Ann
Fathers_Forenames: Edwin
Mothers_Forenames: Charlotte
Mothers_Surname: Tumblings
Residence: Gloucester Road
Occupation: Chimney Sweep
Officiating_Minister: J Burleigh Colwill Off Min
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: 1) Privately: 2) Illegitimate
Notes: Occupation for Charlotte Tumblings is not stated a double line is drawn in the space
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 93
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

What happened to Charlotte I do not know.

The 1861 Census tells us that Edward/Edwin and Esther are living together. He is 36 but place of birth is blank and Esther is 27 and born Coleford. Edward/Edwin's mother in law is given as Elizabeth Taylor and therefore Esther's mother. This baptism is most likely that of Esther:
Year: 1833
Month: May
Day: 5
Parents_Surname: TAYLOR
Child_Forenames: Hester
Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Whitecliff
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Edw[ar]d B. Bagshawe Off[iciatin]g Min[ister]
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 113
Parish_Chapel: Newland

In my post of 28 November I pointed out a birth registration of Ann Taylor in 1867 and with all the information we have now gathered together especially the 1871 Census entry of Esther and children in Monmouth Workhouse I believe this is the birth registration of Ann/Annie. The Workhouse information is probably the most reliable as it would most likely have been gathered from the Parish of Newland which included Coleford.

Our findings tell us that Edwin/Edward Abbot was born c1824 and his trade was Chimney Sweep. This burial also included in my earlier post is therefore a good fit:

Year: 1877
Month: Dec
Day: 18
Surname: ABBOT
Forenames: Edwin
Residence: Chimney Sweep
Age_at_death: 55
Officiating_Minister: William H Mills
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Coleford (2) South Div'n Adults Gr (3) Y 8 (4) Consecrated (5)
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25/204/2
Page_No: 22
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery

The Newspaper report submitted by Mike Pinchin is definitely relevant.

Mike

BNA Monmouthshire Beacon - Saturday 08 July 1871

THE GREEN EYED MONSTER.

Esther Taylor was summoned for assaulting Ann Hoare, Whitecliff, the 28th ult. The defendant said she went down to Abbot’s house, and the complainant caught hold of her throat to choke her. She then struck her. Complainant said that defendant came to Edwin Abbot's house on the day in question while she (complainant) was indoors. Defendant went up stairs searched the bedrooms and threw some bed clothes out of the window into the street. She (complainant) told defendant she would not have that. Defendant had not lived with Abbot for ten months, and had lately been living with a married man at Clearwell, since which time she bad been in the Union. While defendant was throwing the things out of the window she (complainant) remonstrated with her and the defendant threatened to put a knife into her. Defendant caught hold her by the hair of her head and beat her till the neighbours forced her to leave off. Defendant said she went to Whitecliff for her goods. She had been in the Monmouth Union while Abbot had been keeping the complainant. When she (defendant) went into the house the complainant ran at her, caught hold of her by the throat, and tried to strangle her. She (defendant) only threw a bed quilt which belonged to her out of the window. She had lived with Abbot fifteen years, and when she knew him he was only worth the clothes he was wearing. Defendant was bound over in her own recognizance in the sum of 5 keep the peace for six months. As she was being taken of out the court, she saw Abbot and attempted to pitch into him, but was prevented by the police. She was taken down to the cells for short time to get cool.

GR 1861 Census, Coleford, Incline Pitch

Edward ABBOT, Head, Mar, 36, Chimney Sweep, b. Not known
Esther, Wife, Mar, 27, Gloster, Coleford
John JOHNSON, Step-son, 4, Gloster, Coleford
Elizabeth TAYLER, Mother-in-Law, Wid, 70, Gloster, Coleford

I think I am now going to ditch all previous ideas I had and concentrate on Mike's workhouse discovery. The location, names and ages are just all too coincidental. It also means that (as long as he is still living), Edwin will be alone - maybe out of county?

Cass

However still struggling, and I keep coming back to the 1871 census as posted by Mike Shepway, which seems a great fit to me, and hopefully with you too ?;

1871 Census Monmouth Workhouse:
Household schedule number Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country
200 Esther Taylor Inmate 38 1833 Female Newland Gloucestershire England
200 Anne Taylor Inmate 3 1868 Female Newland Gloucestershire England
200 Edwin Taylor Inmate 8 1863 Male Newland Gloucestershire England
200 Alice Taylor Inmate 5 1866 Female Newland Gloucestershire England

I've also found this entry which is one of those aggravating occasions when FamilySearch appears to have omitted the rest of the census form. However, and as I suspected, a quick look at Ancestry (which has free 1881 access) confirms this person is at Westbury On Severn Workhouse. There doesn't appear to be any relations with her.

Name Ann Taylor
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England
Registration District Westbury On Severn
Residence Note Westbury On Severn
Gender Female
Age 14
Marital Status (Original) Single
Occupation Scholar
Birth Year (Estimated) 1867
Birthplace Newland, England
Page Number 6
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 2525/153
Affiliate Record Type Household

I then tried to find siblings Edwin(or Edward?) and Alice. Ditto their Birth records, yet no real luck with any of them. I wonder if they were split-up and sent off to work in service (none of their names are especially rare).

????

I've just realised you've quoted an age for Annie (or was it Amy?) in the 1891 census.
Please can you advise more details; where was she, was she with other family members, etc ? I don't understand why I cannot find her.

???

Thanks, J.

-----------

PS the full 1881 Census for W-o-S workhouse is here c/o the excellent Workhouses website.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/WestburyOnSevern/Westbury1881.shtml

The Westbury workhouse "served" the eastern side of the Forest, whereas the western side had Monmouth (which had replaced the earlier Coleford poorhouse) and Chepstow. If interested, general info abt these workhouses here.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/WestburyOnSevern/
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Monmouth/
etc

Regarding the surname spelling variations, I've just been revisiting the records on the FreeBMD site (as before under Monmouth and then Westbury-o-Severn Districts, but this time using TAYLER as a surname. I'm annoyed I didn't think to do that one before as my paternal Grandmother was a "Taylor" from the Lydbrook side of the Forest - it's a very common surname in those parts ! - and I know the FreeBMD site only searches for the exact same spelling as the data we enter. Unfortunately, and having said all that, yes I did find a fair few TaylEr records but none that seem relevant here.

Another thing we've seen quite often in this Forum is that people in Victorian times often claimed to be married "for convenience" when they were not, or adopted different names etc. (Hopefully you've realised this Forum can be searched going back some years, so one can often find answers to questions on all aspects of FH and local history).

---

Finally, regarding the possible mining links. I may well be wrong (I often am, ask the wife ahem !), but I'm guessing you may not be UK-based ?. If that's true, then fine of course, but I'm asking how well you know the Forest of Dean and it's history ?.
Asking as the towns in the area grew enormously and quickly in the 1800s largely due to an influx of workers for mining. In some parts of the UK the predominant occupation was agriculture, here it was mining, just like the valleys of South Wales etc.
And yes towards the end of the 1800s this was mainly coal mining, but please don't think that was all. For centuries before that, and especially in the western Forest around your Newland/Coleford search area, it was ochre and particularly iron that was mined. The iron ore came from iron stone, which may also explain why there was and still is stone quarrying in the western Forest. If your Edwin was working in the mines, it might well have been an iron mine.

The following link is best opened in a new window or tab, and will take you to a map of the Forest showing the mines as known in 1894.
http://lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/Overviewmap.html

You can see that the black spots are coal mines, the brown ones are iron, and most of these are on the western side. You can then click on individual map sections to enlarge them, this next is the Coleford area, you can see a few iron mines in the Whitecliff area twixt Coleford and Newland village.
http://lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/Staunton.html

In the decades and centuries before this map there would have been far more mines, albeit smaller ones prior to them being worked-out or combined into the bigger concerns shown on the map, but the general trend was the same.

Also in this area is the important Whitecliff iron works which relied on the local iron ore and charcoal.
https://www.forestofdeanhistory.org.uk/resources/sites-in-the-forest/whitecliff-furnace/

I do hope this has been of interest to you, I apologise unreservedly if you already knew all this - especially as your comments suggest you're not here just to chase names and dates like so many family tree builders, but that like me you're interested in the wider scheme of how our ancestors lived their lives.

Thanks again for your interesting posts.
Jeff

Cass

Gee, it sure is good to talk with you and Jefff - some people who really looks at the data and tries to build a story, rather than so many who leap on one entry and jump to unverifiable conclusions.
After reviewing your stuff and Jefff comments, I am going to be more open minded about Edwin's occupation and see if that blends with you two guys.
I have found it most annoying (hey - nobody said this hobby was easy!!!), that the family could not be found in any census up until 1891 and no record of Annie's birth.
(She just has to be FoD, she's far too adamant about it). Similarly, the marriage of Edwin is a mystery.

Cass