Forest of Dean FHT Forum - George Nelmes

George Nelmes (reply)

peteressex — Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:34:36 +0000

Glad it helped.

I can now add that I was at Gloucestershire Archives for a couple of hours during the past week to research that photo among other things. I found from Lydney Rural District Council minutes for 24 June 1952 that on that day, through arrangements made by my grandfather W F Essex, certificates of completion of Civil Defence training were presented to a number of men including the Nelmes, Beeley and Richards who are presumably those already identified in the photo.

It is therefore highly likely to be a photo of some of those thus awarded and presented with certificates, since it would also explain what my grandfather is doing planted centre stage in the front row and why the shot was taken at Lydney Cross in front of the Town Hall.

Jim Nelmes, it also transpires, when not running the "Cross Keys" pub, was a rural district councillor at Lydney for a good few years from 1946 in common with W F Essex. Mr Nelmes was also a manager of Lydney Grammar School for similar years (which is more than W F Essex ever was.)

George NELMES 1854 Lydney & Ellen THATCHER of Andover (reply)

bingo — Fri, 13 Aug 2010 20:38:10 +0000

No birth records of the 2 girls in England. Think I may possibly have found the American link to Bonnie Nelmes's Richard who was married in 1841 to Eliza. His father Richard born 1816. His father John born 1792. Now the possible link, his parents are called John and Margaret Nelmes. John and Margaret also had another son Richard Nelmes Born 1791 who is on your 1841 thread being the father of Frederick Nelmes. Could you please cast your eye over and check for me the possibility. Thank youu.

Frederick NELMES 1834 Lydney (reply)

bingo — Sun, 23 May 2010 21:35:18 +0000

Hi slowhands. Managed to get a contact via curious fox with a member of the Nelmes family in America. Her Grandfather was Edwin Nelmes born 1872. He emigrated in 1911 and lived in Wisconsin. She didnt know of George, but had been in touch with the Elsmore connection in Australia. Cheers. Bingo

George Nelmes (reply)

bingo — Sun, 23 May 2010 21:06:14 +0000

Thank You for the information on a Nelmes in Lydney. I went to view straight away,and yes it is great for adding to my research. Im going to send a message to slowhands now as I have made some progress with the Lydney, Nelmes. Cheers.

Joseph NELMES (year ?) (reply)

peteressex — Fri, 21 May 2010 07:46:34 +0000

Hey Bingo, I don't know if this connects directly to your research, but if you want to see a photograph of a Nelmes alive and well and living in Lydney soon after the Second world War, go to www.sungreen.co.uk/Lydney/Lydney_Cross_Group.html

Joseph NELMES (year ?) (reply)

bingo — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 20:08:29 +0000

It was Richard Nelmes 1791. Who I thought may have had a brother called Joseph.
Think I'm wrong on this ignore. Also may I just say what a brilliant site this is. I can't praise it high enough.

George NELMES 1854 Lydney & Ellen THATCHER of Andover (reply)

bingo — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:38:37 +0000

I'm getting excited. Just read latest update from Romany. This is very Promising indeed. The threads are certainly there. Looks as if Ellen could well be Alice's sister. You are the expert Perhaps you can help with the tieing.
Does Romany know whereabouts in America?

George NELMES 1854 Lydney & Ellen THATCHER of Andover (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:45:04 +0000

I think there is a lot of information in the notes on this thread (?)

i.e.
1901
George Smith abt 1868 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Head Normanton, Derbyshire
Ellice Smith abt 1867 Andover, Hampshire, England Wife Normanton, Derbyshire
Elizabeth M Smith abt 1900 Derby, Derbyshire, England Daughter Normanton, Derbyshire
Leonard Nelmes abt 1888 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepson Normanton, Derbyshire
Alice Nelmes abt 1892 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepdaughter Normanton, Derbyshire
Ellen Nelmes abt 1893 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepdaughter Normanton, Derbyshire

George NELMES 1854 Lydney & Ellen THATCHER of Andover (reply)

romanyh — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:29:03 +0000

I am tracing my family tree and have hit a wall with George Nelmes. The information I have is George Nelmes Married to Ellen Unknown with daughter Helen Nelmes. I know Helen was born in America 1891 so i cant get a birth certificate for information and I have them coming back to England in 1894. No mention of George on the passenger list and i only have Helen Nelmes marriage certificate on which George nelmes is deceased and the 1881 census to go on.

Any information you have and how you have managed to get it would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks

Romany

Joseph NELMES (year ?) (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:28:05 +0000

There doesn't appear to be a Joseph - do you have any more info on Joseph ?

1841
Richard Nelmes abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Mary Nelmes abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
John Nelmes abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Richard Nelmes abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Darnell Nelmes abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Fredric Nelmes abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Thomas Nelmes abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire

1851
Mary Nelmes abt 1793 Wesbury, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney, Gloucestershire
John Nelmes abt 1822 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Richard Nelmes abt 1829 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Daniel Nelmes abt 1831 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Fred Nelmes abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Thomas Nelmes abt 1837 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney, Gloucestershire
Moses Baldwin abt 1829 Charlton, Gloucestershire, England Nephew Lydney, Gloucestershire
George Davis abt 1850 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Grandson Lydney, Gloucestershire

Frederick NELMES 1833 Lydney (reply)

bingo — Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:27:52 +0000

Still trying to find the American connection, Did Frederick have a brother called Joseph. Only A Joseph emmigrated to America roundabout late 1860s early 1870s. Bingo...not quite.

Frederick NELMES 1833 Lydney (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 16:02:00 +0000

Jim

The mystery deepens

Since the base note was opened, this transcription has been added :-

as we have said before "Who's the Daddy ?" Alfred ?

Year: 1833
Month: Aug
Day: 2
Parents_Surname: NELMS
Child_Forenames: Frederick
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Caroline
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lydney
Occupation: Lately servant
Officiating_Minister: H.C.H.Hawkins Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of. Single woman
Notes: Name underlined perhaps as a mark of displeasure
Register_Reference: PFC 209 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 132
Parish_Chapel: Lydney

I suspect this is his Mother's Marriage ( hinting that Richard is his grandfather)

Year: 1838
Month: May
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: DAVIS
Grooms_Forenames: Richard
Grooms_Age: of full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Forgeman
Grooms_Residence: Whitecroft
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Davis
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Forgeman
Brides_Surname: NELMS
Brides_Forenames: Caroline
Brides_Age: of full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: none stated
Brides_Residence: Whitecroft
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Nelms
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: John Collins
Witness_2: Richard Morgan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: George Ridout Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 25
Parish_Chapel: Newland

1841
Richard Davis abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Caroline Davis abt 1816 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
George Davis abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Davis abt 1840 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire

1881
Richard Davis abt 1806 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Caroline Davis abt 1811 Wesbury, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
George Davis abt 1847 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1813
Month: Jun
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: NELMES
Child_Forenames: Caroline
Fathers_Forenames: Richard
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Westbury
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Rich[ar]d Wetherill Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 3
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

Frederick NELMES 1834 Lydney (reply)

jimashton — Sat, 03 Apr 2010 12:18:12 +0000

Hi Slowhands

As is often the case I have the subject of a posting in my tree as a "connection" rather than relative. In this case Frederick Nelmes 1833 & Caroline Pretherton's daughter Minnie Nelmes married George Richard Elsmore. George Richard Elsmore and Minnie nee Nelmes travelled to New Zealand in 1924 on the SS Tainui to Auckland with six of their seven children, one of the children later when on to be Sir Lloyd ELSMORE. whose son became Sir Lloyd Elsmore KBch, OBE, JP. Mayor of Manukau city from 1968-1983.

As these are "connected" not related I only have them in my tree as George Richard Elsmore's sister Elizabeth Annie Elsmore 1873 married a 3rd cousin twice removed Albert Treherne 1873.

I have a query for you however, regarding your posted 1841 census information for Frederick Nelmes, including his father Richard 1791. This does not accord with the marriage detail for Frederick, where his father is shown as Alfred :

Year: 1854
Month: Mar
Day: 19
Grooms_Surname: NELMES
Grooms_Forenames: Frederick
Grooms_Age: 20
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Newherne
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: NELMES
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Alfred
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: PETHERAIN
Brides_Forenames: Caroline
Brides_Age: 20
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Newherne
Brides_Fathers_Surname: PETHERAIN
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: The mark of Richard Davis
Witness_2: The mark of Caroline Davis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Taylor
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/15
Page_Number: 111
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex_Groom: N452
Soundex_Bride: P365

Can you through any light on this please.

Jim Ashton

Ellen THATCHER 1858 of Andover (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 18:12:39 +0000

Name: Ellen Thatcher
Year of Registration: 1858
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Andover
County: Hampshire, Wiltshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 178

1861
James Thatcher abt 1822 Shipton, Hampshire, England Head Quarley, Hampshire
Sarah Thatcher abt 1826 Abbotts Ann, Hampshire, England Wife Quarley, Hampshire
Emma Thatcher abt 1846 Quarley, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
Elizabeth Thatcher abt 1848 Quarley, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
Jane Thatcher abt 1850 Quarley, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
Mary A Thatcher abt 1852 Quarley, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
Matilda Thatcher abt 1855 Quarley, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
Ellen Thatcher abt 1858 Andover, Hampshire, England Daughter Quarley, Hampshire
William Thatcher abt 1860 Grateley, Hampshire, England Son Quarley, Hampshire

George NELMES 1854 Lydney & Ellen THATCHER of Andover (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:54:10 +0000

Year: 1854
Month: Aug
Day: 20
Parents_Surname: NELMES
Child_Forenames: George
Fathers_Forenames: Frederick
Mothers_Forenames: Caroline
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newherne
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: Charles Taylor
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Lydney

1861
Frederick Nelms 27
Caroline Nelms 26
George Nelms 7
Caroline Nelms 5
Ellen Nelms 3
William Nelms 1

1871
Frederick Nelmes 37
Caroline Nelmes 36
George Nelmes 16 Lydney
Caroline Nelmes 14
Ellen Nelmes 12
William Nelmes 10
Eliza Nelmes 6

Name: George Nelmes
Name: Ellen Thatcher
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Andover
County: Hampshire, Wiltshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 311

1881
George Nelmes abt 1854 Forest Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head Radford, Nottinghamshire Bootmaker
Ellen Nelmes abt 1858 Andover, Hampshire, England Wife Radford, Nottinghamshire

Name: Ernest Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1882
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Nottingham
County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 262

Name: Leonard Walter Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1887
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Nottingham
County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 298

I suspect the immigration paperwork will give a hint to where they "claimed" to be staying whilst in the States - hotel, friend, relative, etc >

1891 ?

1900 US census ?
George Nelmas city, Riverside, California date location White

Name: George Smith
Name: Ellen Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1897
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Nottingham
County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 566

1901
George Smith abt 1868 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Head Normanton, Derbyshire
Ellice Smith abt 1867 Andover, Hampshire, England Wife Normanton, Derbyshire
Elizabeth M Smith abt 1900 Derby, Derbyshire, England Daughter Normanton, Derbyshire
Leonard Nelmes abt 1888 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepson Normanton, Derbyshire
Alice Nelmes abt 1892 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepdaughter Normanton, Derbyshire
Ellen Nelmes abt 1893 Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Stepdaughter Normanton, Derbyshire

1911
SMITH GEORGE M 1868 43 Derby Derbyshire
SMITH ELLEN F 1866 45 Derby Derbyshire
SMITH MABEL ELIZABETH F 1900 11 Derby Derbyshire
NELMES ALICE F 1892 19 Derby Derbyshire

Frederick NELMES 1834 Lydney (reply)

bingo — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:45:49 +0000

Dear Slowhands.

Eureka! I hope.
In 1888 the wife of George Nelmes who was 7 on your 1861 census sailed over to New York on the Umbria. She had with her 3 Children Ernest Leonard and Samuel.
When she returned in 1894 Ernest was no longer with her but 2 Little girls were.

Alice one of the girls is my Daughter in Laws, Great Great Grandmother.I can find no birth certificate and all the 1891 census your end have been destroyed George travelled over in 1895/6 but was alone.

What we have been trying to find out is, where did helen ellen Nelmes go to and how come she travelled without her husband. Also it is believed wit -in the family that little Alice was a Native Indian could this be possible?

I always thought my lead would come through the Nelmes family and that my Nelmes travelled over to a relative.
Best Regards Bingo.

Frederick NELMES 1834 Lydney (reply)

BonnieNelms — Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:23:42 +0000

Hello Slowhands,
I have often come across those same names,dates and places. They may be related to my kin. I'm still searching for the Richard Nelm(e)s born 1819 his wife Elizabeth who died around 1860 and their two children John b 1846 Dec 9 and Emily born circa 1840. They of course were from the forest of Dean. John's birth according to his son's certificate (which was in both English and Welsh languages) puts him in Colford. Keep me in mind if you ever see a connection to this family. I have a wealth of info on their decendents.
From across the big pond in the coal mining region of NE Pennsylvania, USA

Frederick NELMES 1834 Lydney

slowhands — Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:08:21 +0000

1841
Richard Nelmes abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
Mary Nelmes abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
Darnell Nelmes abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
Fredric Nelmes abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
John Nelmes abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
Richard Nelmes abt 1828 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
Thomas Nelmes abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Lydney Gloucestershire

1851 Craddocks Lydney
Mary Nelmes abt 1793 Wesbury, Gloucestershire, England Head Lydney Gloucestershire
Daniel Nelmes abt 1831 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Fred Nelmes abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
John Nelmes abt 1822 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Richard Nelmes abt 1829 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Thomas Nelmes abt 1837 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son Lydney Gloucestershire
Moses Baldwin abt 1829 Charlton, Gloucestershire, England Nephew Lydney Gloucestershire
George Davis abt 1850 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Grandson Lydney Gloucestershire

Marriage ?
Name: Frederick Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
DISTRICT: Chepstow
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11a
Page: 18

1861
Frederick Nelms abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1835 How, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1856 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Ellen Nelms abt 1858 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
George Nelms abt 1854 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
William Nelms abt 1860 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1871
Frederick Nelmes abt 1834 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1835 Elton, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1857 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Eliza Nelmes abt 1865 Whitecroft, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Ellen Nelmes abt 1859 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
George Nelmes abt 1855 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1861 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

Name: Edwin Nelmes
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
DISTRICT: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11a
Page: 26

1881 Bream Eaves
Fredrick Nelmes abt 1836 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelmes abt 1836 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Nelmes abt 1878 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Annie Nelmes abt 1880 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Edwin Nelmes abt 1872 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Minie Nelmes abt 1876 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
William Nelmes abt 1861 Bream Eaves, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1891
Fredrick Nelms abt 1835 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Gloucestershire
Caroline Nelms abt 1837 Elton, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Gloucestershire
Albert Nelms abt 1878 Bream Son West Dean Gloucestershire
Annie Nelms abt 1880 Bream Daughter West Dean Gloucestershire
Edwin Nelms abt 1872 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean Gloucestershire

1901 Bream Woodside nr Kings Head Inn
Frederick Nelmes abt 1835 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean Monmouthshire
Carline Nelmes abt 1835 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean Monmouthshire
Annie Nelmes abt 1880 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Monmouthshire
Minnie Nelmes abt 1876 Bream, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean Monmouthshire