Forest of Dean FHT Forum - TERRETT Taylor, Coleford Builders Merchants c1940

TERRETT Taylor, Coleford Builders Merchants c1940 (reply)

Gillian Knowles — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 15:50:45 +0000

There is a very nice photograph on the Sungreen website of Terrett Taylor premises, with Harry Walker ,my Dad Fred Fowler and other employees.

TERRETT Taylor, Coleford Builders Merchants c1940 (reply)

Gillian Knowles — Sun, 21 Feb 2016 14:16:07 +0000

My father Fred Fowler went to work at Terrett Taylor Ironmongers at the age of 14 in 1924 when the shop was still owned by the Taylor family. Miss Taylor lived at Forest House, which became a hotel and restaurant. During the war years my father was in the army, but returned to work and later became manager. He stayed there until 1964 when he opened his own shop A F. Fowler .
I am not sure when the Walker family bought the shop, but I remember Harry Walker very well. I don't remember his sons having much to do with the shop until after Harry died.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Cinderhill ? (reply)

probinson — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:04:17 +0000

Thanks for bring your obvious expertise to this query,

Not an expert, wish I was as I've always had an interest in the geology. I did do a college project on the subject when I was at Gloucester Tech about 35 years ago and I still have the geological maps.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Cinderhill ? (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:40:20 +0000

Thanks for bring your obvious expertise to this query, really appreciated. Also for confirming why it took me so long to try and get my head around, then only roughly of course; as you say it's quite a mixture of rock types in this area.
That map's great, I did find some others but nothing that clear, a great find ! It's key shows just what a difficult subject geology must be to study, at least if your memory is as porous as mine, so thanks again, J.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Jefff — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 21:32:19 +0000

Hi again Carole, apologies not necessary at all, it's the taking part that counts here, not the "winning", just glad to hear from you again. In fact it's me who must apologise.
What a fool I am, I completely forgot about the likelihood of the death certificate carrying such details... Yes you're right, John must have had a rough last few years; sorry for thinking it may not have been so, but some researchers assume modern-day living conditions, foolishly I forgot who I was talking to, sorry.
To be honest given the standards of the time re living conditions, diet and available healthcare, I'm often amazed how people would still be working in the pits and quarries into their sixties, so very tough. Furthermore, as you know wives would then be widowed so finding themselves having to work hard, charring etc etc; I do hope John's wife Hester had a reasonable life after John died, hopefully ably supported by their offspring.
Yours J

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Cinderhill ? (reply)

dwdavis — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:18:21 +0000

Thank you for this link. It is far handier than the cumbersome charts from which this valuable tool was created.
It shows just how complex the geology was in the parish of Ruardean and suggests that at least two (Hawkwell
and Aston Bridge ) of my 1793 quarries were harvesting sandstone. 'Cinder Wholes' aka Cinderhill? may have been
limestone but its location is still in question.
This Geology of Britain gem will be a valuable asset when we set out to explore this landscape later this year.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Cinderhill ? (reply)

probinson — Tue, 09 Feb 2016 08:12:56 +0000

Just found that the BGS has on-line maps. You can find Moorwood at http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain/home.html?lat=51.849340&long=-2.5715196

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Cinderhill ? (reply)

probinson — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:04:23 +0000

Post updated as more information available.

Moorwood is on the very edge of the limestone boundary with mudstones and sandstones so it depends on where the quarry was as to what type of rock was being quarried. North and west of Moorwood would be limestone. South and east would be sandstone.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Carole Lewis — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 21:02:11 +0000

Hi there, Sorry I have been so long replying. I couldn't find John Morgan's death certificate. Have now been successful. He died in 1881, aged 61. The certificate states he was suffering from bronchitis and had been for 2 years, asphyxia and general anasarca. He probably had heart problems but I think the conditions combined fit in very well with a life quarrying limestone.
You could also argue they fit in with starving to death as well but I prefer the idea of the congested lungs!

He seems to have been living in Joys Green when he died. He was brought up in Moorwood along with his wife Hester.

Sir Gervas Walker, 1920-2001 (reply)

alison2 — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 14:22:06 +0000

Just a coincidence. The Walker Family originated from Hill, which is not far from Berkeley on the other side of the Severn. There should be some old forum messages on this site, probably archived, by Ruth Churchill Walker about 2007. I was liasing with her then.

Thomas TERRETT TAYLOR, Coleford J.P. 1828-1919. (reply)

Jefff — Mon, 08 Feb 2016 03:31:51 +0000

Re the aforementioned Thomas Terrett Taylor J.P. of Coleford Market Place in the 1902 Directory, the BNA old newspapers show he was an acting Coleford magistrate from 1896 until at least 1916. The Gloucester Journal of Saturday 8th March 1919 carries an article about his death "at an advanced age" the previous Wednesday.

This site's PRs show;

Record_ID: 37165
Entry_Number: 799
Year: 1828
Month: Sep
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: TAYLOR
Child_Forenames: Thomas Terrett
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lydney
Occupation: Baker
Officiating_Minister: H.C.H.Hawkins Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC 209 IN 1/3
Page_Number: 100
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: T460

Record_ID: 170699
Entry_Number: 2547
Year: 1919
Month: Mar
Day: 8
Surname: TAYLOR
Forenames: Thomas Terrett
Residence: Ironmonger
Age_at_death: 89
Officiating_Minister: T Lovat Jones
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Coleford (2) [not stated] (3) H 21 (4) Unconsecrated (5)
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25 / 204 / 30
Page_No: 27
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery
Soundex: T460

GlosBMD, Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
TAYLOR Thomas Terrett SIMS Sarah Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office [Closed] 1856 3 152

Sir Gervas Walker, 1920-2001 (reply)

Jefff — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:16:04 +0000

Thanks Alison.
Please may I ask if Gervas's family have any roots into Derbyshire, perhaps ?.
I ask as while searching FreeBMD for his records, his records stood out as very different from all the others. There is a long line of "Gervas Walker" records in Belper, Derbyshire, dating right back to the 1830s; there may have been even more if spelt slightly differently as I'm sure happened occasionally.
Just a thought, pardon my curiosity !, J

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Jefff — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 16:10:04 +0000

Hi Carole, glad to help a little re John Morgan's life.
do you have any questions specifically regarding his death, perhaps we can help further ? I cannot see an Inquest for him within this site's records, altho' this might have been mentioned in the old newspapers, have you searched them ?. That said, you know he had a lung condition, so you've probably already fully researched him. If possible and with respect to your privacy if you wish, it would be interesting to know how you knew of his condition, is this from family knowledge or have you seen it mentioned on Records, if so I wonder which ones, please ?.

From your posts it seems John lived into his 60s, which to be honest in those times would be considered a fairly long life, particularly if he's spent it in hard physical work such as quarrying, even without any exposure to dust. My dad died "young" after leading a very healthy lifestyle and not having physical jobs, sadly this didn't stop him falling victim to an unforeseen brain tumour. At the time, 1991, we thought this was too young, but visiting him at Cinderford cemetery has shown his death at 67 was almost typical of men of his generation he now lies with, many of which were miners, smokers, etc. So just maybe your John didn't have as short a life as you might think, I do hope that until then he had enjoyed good health.
But yes, of course quarry work especially blasting or cutting could mean regular exposure to excess mineral dust hence possible silicosis etc, like the miners; it's definitely no coincidence that this British site contains a photo of a quarryman and not other occupations.
http://www.agius.com/hew/resource/lung.htm

BTW, my dad's dad was a collier in Lydbrook, I'm told he spent the last years of his life at home downstairs, his bad lungs prevented him climbing the stairs, which is partly why my Gran was determined their only son wouldn't follow him down the pit. Yet he outlived my Dad, albeit only by one year, which on paper seem's better until you realise his quality of life was far worse in later years. Perhaps my Grandad'parents knew your Morgans, they lived in the Reddings and Moorwood too.

I hope the above is of interest and even help understanding John's life,
good luck with your continued researches, Jeff.

Sir Gervas Walker, 1920-2001 (reply)

alison2 — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 11:41:38 +0000

Percival H Walker was indeed his Brother and all the other info re; Sir Gervas walker's family is correct.

His Father Harry was also a local preacher in the 2 congregational chapels, (1 in St Briavels and 1 on St Briavels Common. Both are still there. I am not sure whether they carried out baptisms, certainly not in the time I was attending the Sunday School in 1950's.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Carole Lewis — Sun, 07 Feb 2016 10:34:35 +0000

Thanks for the info. It explains a little more about my GGG Grandfather John Morgan. I had often wondered what he was quarrying for and am confident his death was a result of industrial pollution which fits in well with this background.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 22:19:12 +0000

Hi Carole,
yes, limestone is a key ingredient to add to a blast furnace along with iron ore and coke, to help remove acidic impurities from the iron ore. Limestone contains calcium carbonate, this reacts with the impurities to form molten slag which can then be skimmed off to leave the molten iron behind. Like limestone itself, this slag can then be used for roadmaking, or added to cement. The remaining molten iron is then cast into moulds to produce bulky items, or used to produce tougher wrought iron.

For centuries the Forest was the centre of quality iron-making for all of Britain, until the C18th when overtaken by other areas which had more abundant coke to fuel the new blast furnaces, not charcoal. Even then, Thomas Teague's ironworks at Cinderford (from sinders = slag, leftovers from Roman? processes) opened briefly c1810 and sporadically after that. The Forest iron industry gradually became left-behind by bigger & better-sited areas such as in South Wales. The death knell came when steel became more popular than iron, with it's better strength & durability. Steel is iron which has had the embrittling carbon levels reduced by blowing oxygen thro' the molten mix. At first very expensive to produce, steel became economically viable for mass-production in lieu of iron in the mid C19th, when Henry Bessemer finalised his Convertor Process, albeit by "borrowing" the key ideas from Coleford's own Robert Forester Mushet, a key figure in the development of specialised steel alloys at Darkhill, Coleford.

(Apologies to any bona-fide steelworkers reading this, most of the above is what I recall from college studies 30 years ago, so I may well be "rusty" on a few points).

Sir Gervas Walker, 1920-2001 (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 21:27:32 +0000

His obituary from 29 August 2001 describes his full life in detail, starting

"SIR GERVAS WALKER, who has died aged 80, was an important figure in local government; he was also instrumental in the setting up of the new county of Avon in 1973, becoming its first Chairman in 1974.
Gervas George Walker was born on September 12 1920 in the Wye Valley and attended Monmouth School. He left school in 1938, after which he joined the Territorial unit of the Gloucestershire Regiment. When war was declared a year later, Walker was transferred to the Royal Artillery.
In 1944, shortly after his marriage, he was posted to France and, like so many others, was parted from his new wife for the next 11 months. He saw action at Falaise and through Belgium to the Crossing of the Rhine, towards the end of the war.
On returning to civilian life, Walker joined the family firm of construction and civil engineers, based in London and Bristol..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1338793/Sir-Gervas-Walker.html

The Queen and Sir Gervas Walker at Filton High School, 1977, Silver Jubilee Year.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4036/4699662864_cdff7aa892_b.jpg

I cannot find him in this site's PRs, or his parents for sure, but FreeBMD has;

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1920 (>99%)
Walker Gervase G Williams Monmouth 11a 49

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1944 (>99%)
MAXWELL Jessie E Walker St.Asaph 11b 401
WALKER Gervas G Maxwell St.Asaph 11b 401
(St Asalph is in North Wales)

His brother, perhaps ?
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
WALKER Percival H Williams Monmouth 11a 40

--------

UPDATE:

Thanks to Mike Pinchin for the January 1947 "Citizen" cutting, showing Gervas as the recently-selected prospective Parliamentary Liberal candidate for the FoD, announced at a meeting at Cinderford Town Hall. The article confirms his father as Mr H.J.Walker, hence it seems this is his parents' marriage record;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1910 (>99%)

WALKER Harry J Chepstow 11a 37
Williams Susanna M Chepstow 11a 37

This site's PRs gives;

Record_ID: 60246
Entry_Number: 518
Year: 1881
Month: Jun
Day: 28
Parents_Surname: WALKER
Child_Forenames: Harry James
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Emma
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: The Fence
Occupation: Navigator
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Taprell Allen Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: son of P[rivately] (Received into the Church July 31 1881)
Notes:
Register_Reference: P278 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 65
Parish_Chapel: St Briavels
Soundex: W426

(Presume father George is a civil engineering "navvy", rather than a ship's navigator, given these PR and Census Records, see below. ?)

Record_ID 23382
Entry_Number 373
Year 1869
Month Feb
Day 6
Grooms_Surname WALKER
Grooms_Forenames George
Grooms_Age 23
Groom_Condition Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation Woodman
Grooms_Residence Lower Meen [?] S[t] Briavels
Grooms_Fathers_Surname Walker
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames George
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Brides_Surname THOMAS
Brides_Forenames Emma
Brides_Age 20
Brides_Condition Spinster
Brides_Occupation
Brides_Residence The Fence [?] S[t] Briavels
Brides_Fathers_Surname Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Forenames George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation Labourer
Licence_or_Banns Banns
Date_of_Banns
Signature_or_Mark Both sign
Witness_1 Mark of William Berrow
Witness_2 Harriett Jones
Other_Witnesses
Officiating_Minister W[illia]m Taprell Allen MA Vicar
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register_Reference P278 IN 1/12
Page_Number 187
Parish_Chapel St Briavels
Soundex_Groom W426
Soundex_Bride T520

-------
LDS FamilySearch gives;

1881 Census, St Briavels.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace

George Walker Head M 34 "General Laborer", St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Walker Wife F 32 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
Rose E Walker Daughter F 10 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
George T Walker Son M 9 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
Arthur H Walker Son M 3 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England
Esther Walker Daughter F 2 St Briavels, Gloucestershire, England

1891 Census, St Briavels.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
George Walker Head M 44 "WOODARD LABOURER", Gloucestershire, England
Emma Walker Wife F 42 Gloucestershire, England
Rose Ellen Walker Daughter F 20 Gloucestershire, England
Arthur Henry Walker Son M 13 Gloucestershire, England
Esther Elizabeth Walker Daughter F 12 Gloucestershire, England
Harry James Walker Son M 9 Gloucestershire, England
Emily Agusta Annie Walker Daughter F 7 Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Walker Daughter F 5 Gloucestershire, England
Hubert Reuben Walker Son M 3 Gloucestershire, England

1901 Census, St Briavels.
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
George Walker Head M 53 "WOODARD ON AN ESTATE", St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Emma Walker Wife F 50 St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Rose E Walker Daughter F 29 St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Harry J Walker Son M 19 St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Mary A Walker Daughter F 15 St Briavels, Gloucestershire
Reuben H Walker Son M 13 St Briavels, Gloucestershire

-----------------------

Other F.o.D. Liberal Party officials named in the 1947 newspaper article include Mr C.A.J.Hale, treasurer and W.H.Eagles, secretary.

see this post re William Henry Eagles of Coleford.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?id=44110

I think C.A.J. Hale must be;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALE Charles Alfred Jenkins HALE HALE JONES 1869 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 30 277

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
HALE Charles Alfred Jenkins BRIGHT Edith Sarah Ida Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office [Closed] 1895 10 140

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Carole Lewis — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 21:09:56 +0000

Thank you for that. i think that the limestone sounds right. John Morgan died from lung problems which you would associate with the limestone. Was the limestone used in the iron ore industry. That is a thought lodged in the back of my brian.
Thanks again.

TERRETT Taylor, Coleford Builders Merchants c1940 (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 16:37:37 +0000

Thanks Alison.

This site has this 1930s advert for Terrett Taylor Builder's Merchants "established nearly a century";
http://forest-of-dean.net/gallery/fod_guide/pages/page_32.html

Also http://www.sungreen.co.uk/coleford_forest-of_dean/terett_taylor_invoice_1939.html
http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Coleford-Glos/Terrett_Taylor.html

More memories, perhaps yours?, of the family business here. It mentions the shop backs onto the railway, I've seen photos of railway wagons in the TT livery.
http://www.francisfrith.com/coleford/terrett-taylor-ironmongers_memory-186441
Clicking the photo will enlarge it, in time.

Quarries in or near Ruardean, Moorwood = Limestone (reply)

Jefff — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 15:04:38 +0000

Hi Carole, yours or anyone else's input is always very welcome, please, especially if it comes from personal/family experience like yours, whereas in this instance mine is just cribbed from various references.
I suspect Donald will know what the Moorwood/Lydbrook quarries were extracting for sure, I'm afraid I always tend to think red Forest sandstone as per the East Dean quarries we foolishly played in as 70s kids.

This excellent page of notes about the Royal Spring pub at Vention, Moorwood, suggests limestone;
"Lydbrook is made up of a number of settlements of which the Vention area is but one. It is situated in the north east of the present parish. The lane leading down from the Morewood past the inn and down to the River Wye having also served as a tramway in the 1820’s. The area has two marketable assets, limestone and coal, A large quarry and some limekilns lie above the inn, and another limekiln was built about halfway down towards the river. The incline is very steep."
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/RAIGConnection.php?pubid1=1396
The old maps of the area do show several old lime kilns, lime was a very valuable product in past years for many purposes, particularly fertiliser.

The 125 page report "The Forest of Dean Landscape" splits the Forest into different areas from a "landscape" viewpoint, it lists the following under the "Limestone Hills" heading; Bicknor Hills, Highmeadow Woods & Staunton Hills, Coleford & Christchurch Hills, Newland Hills, Ruardean Hills." This section starts with a map clearly showing this part of the Western Dean, see report page 15.
https://www.fdean.gov.uk/media/Assets/ForwardPlan/documents/Sustainability%20Team/Secti...

The following page details the area in pure geology terms, all a bit heavy-going for me I'm afraid !. However the cross-section thro the Forest simplifies it, you can click to enlarge it to show it cuts thro' the Dean from the Western side (Wye) thro Clearwell(Coleford) then Cannop to Soudley(Cinderford) in the East.
To me this suggests the majority of the exposed (so most easily quarried) stone on the far Western forest including Moorwood is indeed Carboniferous Limestone, whereas "my" Drybrook/Soudley side is largely Red Sandstone. This clearly reflects the aforementioned Landscape Report.
http://www.glosgeotrust.org.uk/fod_geology.shtml
That said, the Bixlade Quarries between Coleford and Cannop are red Sandstone, so clearly there are some localised outcrops that differ from the norm shown on the cross-section.

I hope this is correct, hopefully others far more expert than I'll ever be will also contribute, please.