Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Jane Hawkins

Jane Hawkins (reply)

RalphCook — Sun, 30 Jun 2013 08:12:19 +0000

Sadly it is not a possible scenario for Jane Hawkins, the wife of Thomas Clay and mother to an illegitimate son named John Hawkins to have been the daughter of Richard Hawkins of Coleford and his wife Jane, nee York, baptised at Coleford in 1779 because it seems she died aged about 10 years as the Newland burial registers testify:

BURIAL

Record_ID: 171831
Entry_Number:
Year: 1789
Month: Nov
Day: 27
Surname: HAWKINS
Forenames: Jane
Residence: Coleford
Age_at_death:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: dau of Rich[ar]d & Jane
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/4
Page_No: 793
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: H252

Regards Ralph

Thomas HAWKINS 1857 Lydbrook (reply)

Stephen Hawkins — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:56:40 +0000

To slowhands..... Yes, that is my lot. Please e-mail me directly. I would love to explore this topic further. I do have a considerable volume of research.
stephenhawkins6799 AT yahoo.co.uk
Best Regards
Stephen Hawkins

Thomas HAWKINS 1857 -1907 Old Engine /Worral Hill Lydbrook (reply)

slowhands — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:19:45 +0000

1911
CURNUCK MARY F 1865 46 Cardiff Glamorganshire
HAWKINS FRANK M 1902 9 Cardiff Glamorganshire
HAWKINS VICTOR THOMAS M 1900 11 Cardiff Glamorganshire

and possibly some of these :-
BROWN BEATRICE F 1905 6 Cardiff Glamorganshire
BROWN HERBERT M 1907 4 Cardiff Glamorganshire
MANNINGS EMILY F 1897 14 Cardiff Glamorganshire
MANNINGS ROSE F 1898 13 Cardiff Glamorganshire
MILLS ELIZABETH F 1900 11 Cardiff Glamorganshire
SENIOR EDGAR CHARLES M 1903 8 Cardiff Glamorganshire
SENIOR STANLEY M 1904 7 Cardiff Glamorganshire
TUDOR GLADYS F 1899 12 Cardiff Glamorganshire
WATKINS SUSAN F 1901 10 Cardiff Glamorganshire
WILLIAMS HERBERT JOHN M 1906 5 Cardiff Glamorganshire

Name: Thomas Hawkins
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Year of Registration: 1907
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 52
District: Wakefield
County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 27

1901
Thomas Hawkins abt 1856 Lydbank, Gloucestershire, England Head Worsborough, Yorkshire
Clara Hawkins abt 1865 Cardiff, Wales Wife Worsborough, Yorkshire
Victor I Hawkins abt 1900 Ludlow, Shropshire, England Son Worsborough, Yorkshire
Frank Hawkins abt 1901 Worsbor Common, Yorkshire, England Son Worsborough, Yorkshire
Olive M Jones abt 1885 Cardiff, Wales Stepdaughter Worsborough, Yorkshire

1901 TANNER family
Isaac Sanner abt 1875 Wls; Mon, Pontypool Head Abram, Lancashire
Ann Sanner abt 1875 Abram, Lancashire, England Wife Abram, Lancashire
David C Hawkins abt 1888 Abram, Lancashire, England Head Brother (Head) Abram, Lancashire
George Sharratt abt 1894 Abram, Lancashire, England Son Abram, Lancashire

1891
Thomas Hawkins abt 1857 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire, England Head Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire
Mary Hawkins abt 1846 Abersychan, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire
Sidney Hawkins abt 1883 Abertillery, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire
Frank R Hawkins abt 1885 Musby, Glamorgan, Wales Son Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire
David C Hawkins abt 1888 Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire, England Son Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire
Isaac Tadwner abt 1874 Abersychan, Monmouthshire, Wales Stepson Ashton in Makerfield, Lancashire

possible marriage in Mar 1890
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
HAWKINS Thomas James Cricklade 5a 43
LLOYD Mary Cricklade 5a 43

1881 Cwm
Henry Lloyd abt 1837 Somerset, England Head Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Mary Lloyd abt 1847 Abersychan, Monmouth, Wales Wife Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Isaac Tanmer abt 1874 Pontypool, Monmouth, Wales Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Thomas Hopkins abt 1856 Lidbrook Boarder Aberystruth, Monmouthshire

Name: Henry Lloyd
Name: Mary Tanner
Year of Registration: 1876
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Pontypool
County: Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 181

1881 ?
Thomas Pratt abt 1837 St Margrets, Leicestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Pratt abt 1852 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Olizpence Pratt abt 1870 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Eudoria Pratt abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Rosemond Pratt abt 1875 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Victor Pratt abt 1876 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire
Isabelle Pratt East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn - East Dean,
Thomas Hawkins abt 1858 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Visitor Westbury On Severn - East Dean, Gloucestershire

1871 The Boarts
Amey Awkins 60 head
Emma Awkins 31 dau
William Awkins 6 Grd son
Elizabeth Awkins 20 Dau
Annie Awkins 2 Grd Dau
Enoch John Awkins 17 nephew
Thomas Awkins 17 nephew
Francis Awkins 13 nephew

1861 The Boarts Lydbrook
Henry Hawkin abt 1798 Blackney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Amey Hawkin abt 1809 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Richard Hawkin abt 1830 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Son To Daur West Dean, Gloucestershire
Emma Hawkin abt 1837 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Hawkin abt 1843 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Blina Hawkin abt 1844 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Heny Hawkin abt 1847 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Hawkin abt 1849 Old Engin, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Amey Hawkins abt 1833 Old Engin Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire
Enoch Hawkins abt 1854 Old Engin Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Hawkins abt 1855 Old Engin Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire
Frank Hawkins abt 1859 Boarts, Gloucestershire, England Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire
Edith Mathews abt 1856 Old Engin Lodger West Dean, Gloucestershire

1851 Lydbrook
Henry Hawkins abt 1803 Bluckney Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Arney Hawkins abt 1808 Lydbrook Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Richard Hawkins abt 1831 Lydbrook Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Arney Hawkins abt 1833 Lydbrook Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Emma Hawkins abt 1835 Lydbrook Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Hawkins abt 1837 Lydbrook Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Hawkins abt 1843 Lydbrook Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Hawkins abt 1847 Lydbrook Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Hawkins abt 1850 Lydbrook Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1799
Month: Apr
Day: 7
Parents_Surname: HAWKINS
Child_Forenames: Henry
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname: [nee](Matthews S[pinster])
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Sandiford Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: [1]S[on] [2]b[or]n Feb[ruar]y 1 1797
Notes: Blakeney Chapel
Register_Reference: P30 1 IN 1 Part 2
Page_Number: 480
Parish_Chapel: Awre

John Hawkins born about 1803, East Dean Gloucestershire (reply)

Stephen Hawkins — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:34:47 +0000

Hello Andrew,
It appears that we are related. My Great Grandfather was Thomas Hawkins, born 1856 in Upper Lydbrook. In 1861, he and his siblings were living with their Uncle Henry.
The story of how Thomas arrived in Wigan, Lancashire, is quite complex, as was the remainder of his life.
My Grandfather, David Charles Hawkins, was born in Wigan in 1887. Following the death of his Mother, his Father abandoned David and his older siblings to re-marry???
This "marriage" produced two more sons, Victor Thomas & Frank Hawkins. They ended up living in Treherbert.
I would be very happy for you to contact me. My research is open to you, and I hope that we may be able to fill in a few blanks. Please e-mail:
stephenhawkins6799@yahoo.co.uk
Hope to hear from you soon.
Best Regards
Stephen Hawkins

Jane HAWKINS 1779 Coleford (reply)

peterlane — Mon, 12 May 2008 23:25:33 +0000

Hello again

A very, very impressive FH website

Many thanks

Peter

Jane HAWKINS 1779 Coleford (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 12 May 2008 23:18:43 +0000

yes more and more transcriptions have been added, enhancing the chance of discovering the links :-)

Jane HAWKINS 1779 Coleford (reply)

peterlane — Mon, 12 May 2008 23:14:02 +0000

Hello again

Yes, thanks for your update - I saw this when I searched you database which prompted my initial comment. I presume that this information has come to light since the previous research by Hawkeye was carried out ?

Thanks again.

Regards

Peter

Jane HAWKINS 1779 Coleford (reply)

slowhands — Mon, 12 May 2008 20:08:41 +0000

Year: 1779
Month: Feb
Day: 21
Parents Surname: HAWKINS
Child Forenames: Jane
Father's Forenames: Richard
Mother's Forenames: Jane
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating Minister:
Event type: Birth
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P93 IN 1/1
Page No: 13
Parish_Chapel: Coleford

Year: 1775
Month: Nov
Day: 4
Groom Surname: HAWKINS
Groom Forenames: Richard
Groom Age at Marriage:
Groom condition:
Groom Rank or Profession:
Groom Residence: Newland
Groom Father's Surname:
Groom Father's Forenames:
Groom Father's Rank or Profession:
Bride Surname: YORK
Bride Forenames: Jane
Bride Age at Marriage:
Bride Condition:
Bride Rank or Profession:
Bride Residence: Newland
Bride Father's Surname:
Bride Father's Forenames:
Bride Father's Rank or Profession:
Licence or Banns: Banns
Date of banns:
Signature or Mark: Both sign
Witness 1: Thomas Thomas
Witness 2: R Williams
Other witnesses:
Officiating Minister: P Ball vicar
Event type: Marriage
Memoranda:
Transcriber's Notes:
Register Reference: P227 IN 1/7
Page No: 496
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Jane Hawkins (reply)

peterlane — Mon, 12 May 2008 12:39:19 +0000

Is it not possible that the Jane Hawkins bapt 21/02/1779 is the daughter of Richard and Jane Hawkins who married on 04/11/1775 ?

Peter

Jane Hawkins (reply)

Hawkeye — Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:42:37 +0000

Thanks Joanne, thats the 1st marriage Ive mentioned in my post above.

Jane Hawkins (reply)

Joanne — Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:37:33 +0000

Andrew,

On the IGI there is this:

Jane Hawkins Birth: About 1789 Awre With Bla, Gloucester, Gloucester, England
Marriages:
Spouse: Thomas Clay (Birth: About 1788 Awre With Bla, Gloucester, Gloucester, England)
Marriage: About 1807 Awre, Gloucester, Gloucester, England

Jane Hawkins (reply)

Hawkeye — Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:37:01 +0000

Well its been a while but its taken Gloucester records office 6mnths to reply to a research request on this one.

Basically I'm no further forward than before except they did turn up one nugget of info from the marriage record of John Hawkins.
This shows that the witnesses of the marriage included a Hannah Clay.

From this info I suggest another scenario is possible...

IGI has a reference to the Birth (09/Mar/1808) and Christening (13/Mar/1808)of Hannah Clay daughter of Thomas Clay and Jane Hawkins at Awre with Blakeney batch C023302.

I think this is John's half sister.

However, I suspect that Jane Clay (nee Hawkins - John and Hannah's mother) dies somewhere between 1808 and 1810.

IGI then has a reference to the Birth (15/Jun/1811) and Christening (14/Jul/1811) of a William Clay son of Thomas Clay and Jane Tirley at Awre with Blakeney batch C023302

They also go on to have two more sons Thomas (05/Oct/1817) and George (20/Apr/1823)

Now looking at marriages in IGI as Slowhands has already said there are two references to a Thomas Clay marrying a Jane (neither of these have official batch numbers though)

Abt 1807 Thomas Clay mr Jane Hawkins at Awre (1st wife?)
Abt 1810 Thomas Clay mr Jane Tirley at Awre (2nd wife?)

So Thomas has 2 wives both named Jane...how inconsiderate of him!

Interestingly the census records for 1841/1851 and 1861 show a Jane Clay wife of Thomas living within a few houses of the Tirleys.

Unfortunately I cant look at the Deaths Register to confirm the death of Jane Hawkins as this only starts from 1813.

I suspect that the only routes forward from here are...

To look at parish records to find a reference to the marriage of Thomas Clay and Jane Hawkins abt 1807 - although I wonder if this exists, otherwise why is it not in the IGI official batches already?

To look if there are any monumental records in support.

I have a few questions if anyone can help me...

Are the parish records for Awre complete around the period 1780-1813?
As I find it strange that there are no references to either the Birth/Christening of Jane Hawkins or her subsequent marriage.
The location of Awre and Blakeney is I think a 'constant' throughout my research

Do death records exist prior to 1813?

Does anyone have any other suggestions of what else to try?

Jane HAWKINS ??? (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:10:20 +0000

The IGI "suggestion" is :-

Jane Hawkins
----------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1789 Awre With Bla, Gloucester, Gloucester, England
--------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: Thomas Clay
Marriage: About 1807 Awre, Gloucester, Gloucester, England
------------------------------------
Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church.

howevere there is also another "suggestion"

Thomas Clay
----------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: About 1790 Awre With Bla, Gloucester, Gloucester, England
---------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: Jane Tirley
Marriage: About 1810 Awre, Gloucester, Gloucester, England
------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church.

So 2 Thomas Clay's in the area marrying 2 differert Jane's - Possible but be cautious :-) < did Jane H marry become Tirley, then re-marry to become a Clay ? >

looking for "supporting" record s (?)

1851 Gibraltar, (Blakeney Hill area)
Thomas Clay abt 1779 Stonehouse, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean Gloucestershire Quarryman
Jane Clay abt 1777 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean Gloucestershire

So now fishing for offspring:-

--------------------------------------------------------

GEORGE CLAY
------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 20 APR 1823 Blakeney, Gloucester, England

------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: THOMAS CLAY
Mother: JANE
--------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
--------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C023431 1813 - 1860 0091513 Film 6911602 Film
Sheet: 00

WILLIAM CLAY
------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 15 JUN 1811

Christening: 14 JUL 1811 Awre With Blakeney, Gloucester, England
-----------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: THOMAS CLAY
Mother: JANE TIRLEY
--------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
-----------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C023302 1538 - 1812 0091511 Film 6911600 Film
Sheet: 00

Seem to support the Clay/Tirley Union.

I guess you need to view the Parish records for Awre/Blakeney, unless someone has been here before and can share some more insight.

John Hawkins 1841 entry (reply)

Hawkeye — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:20:16 +0000

Thanks for that.

Mary and Daniel fit with the IGI christening records from Blakeney.

Thanks for the map - I am sure family will make their way there now we know where it is! It also confirmed their address as New Road.

Any ideas on how to move forward with establishing parentage of John Hawkins?

Any input you can make would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Andy.

John HAWKINS 1841 entry (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 03:00:18 +0000

Mercy - could be Mary image quality could be a shade better - she is the last entry on the page .

Samuel could be Daniel, in fact going back I'd now say Daniel - there is an enumerators mark at the start of the entry.

Old Furnace Bottom / New Road on old map at

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
co ords 366140,206820

and you might want to try for a current map

http://maps.google.co.uk/

search around GL15 4DG

John Hawkins born about 1803, East Dean Gloucestershire (reply)

admin — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 01:42:00 +0000

(Its me Andrew Hawkins - bit of a c**k up with registration)

Thanks for the super quick reply slowhands.

You've helped confirm locations as we had given up on the 'New Road' reference and the 'Old Furnace' reference was almost illegible and was quite frankly a guess on our part.

Its good to know my ancestors had the same priorities and lived near the pub !

Thanks for the 1841 extract as this is something I dont have access to.
Its also enlightened us to another sibling Samuel of whom we had no prior knowledge. (The reference to Mercy is confusing as the IGI christening records have this reading Mary)

I had seen the christening reference for John with the mother Jane Hawkins. However, this is where the trail went cold. I have no idea if John was illigitimate or if Jane is a Hawkins by marriage.
I've tried looking for references to Jane Hawkins in the IGI indexes for the area to see if I could find a likely candidate in the Christening records to test the illigitimate theory but drew a blank.
If she is a Jane Hawkins by marriage then frankly I'm at a loss as to what to try next.

Do you have any suggestions on where I go from here?

Cheers
Andy

John HAWKINS 1841 Old Furnace , Blakeney Hill (reply)

slowhands — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 00:21:37 +0000

JOHN HAWKINS
Event(s):
Birth: 07 MAY 1803
Christening: 10 MAY 1803 Awre With Blakeney, Gloucester, England

---------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Mother: JANE HAWKINS
---------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
----------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
C023302 1538 - 1812 0091511 Film 6911600 Film
Sheet: 00

---------------------------------------------------------
JOHN HAWKINS
-----------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY CARTER
Marriage: 29 DEC 1825 Awre With Blakeney, Gloucester, England
----------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:
M023301 1754 - 1859 0091512 Film 6911601 Film
Sheet: 00

1841 entry

HO 107 / 364 /5 folio 21 ( page 14)
Old Furnace

John HAWKINS 35
Mary 35
George 14
Richard 12
John 10
Harriet 8
Jane 5
Mercy 2
Samuel 10 days
All born in county

<1851

On the New Road from Blakeney to Parkend, near Quarrymans Arms / Ancient Briton Pub >

John Hawkins born about 1803, East Dean Gloucestershire

Andrew Hawkins — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:12:22 +0000

John Hawkins (about 1803) and Mary Carter (about 1804).

1851

John Hawkins abt 1803 Head Married 48 Stone Mason Gloucestershire East Dean
Mary Hawkins about 1804 Wife Married 47 – Gloucestershire East Dean
George Hawkins about 1826 Son Unmarried 24 Stone Mason Gloucestershire Awre
Richard Hawkins about 1828 Son Unmarried 22 Stone Mason Gloucestershire East Dean
John Hawkins about 1831 Son Unmarried 19 Stone Mason Gloucestershire East Dean
Jane Hawkins about 1836 Daughter Unmarried 15 – Gloucestershire East Dean
Dan Hawkins about 1841 Son Unmarried 10 – Gloucestershire East Dean
Ann Hawkins about 1844 Daughter Unmarried 6 – Gloucestershire East Dean
Alfred Hawkins about 1846 Son Unmarried 4 – Gloucestershire East Dean
Everett Hawkins about 1849 Son Unmarried 2 – Gloucestershire East Dean

1861
John Hawkins about 1803 Head Married 57 Mason East Dean Gloucestershire
Mary Hawkins about 1804 Wife Married 56 – East Dean Gloucestershire
Jane Hawkins about 1836 Daughter Unmarried 26 – East Dean Gloucestershire
Dan Hawkins about 1841 Son Unmarried 20 – East Dean Gloucestershire
Ann Hawkins about 1844 Daughter Unmarried 16 – East Dean Gloucestershire
Alfred Hawkins about 1846 Son Unmarried 14 – East Dean Gloucestershire
Evert Hawkins about 1849 Son Unmarried 11 – East Dean Gloucestershire

1871
John Hawkins abt 1803 Head Married 68 Builder Gloucestershire East Dean
Mary Hawkins abt 1804 Wife Married 67 – Gloucestershire East Dean
George Hawkins abt 1826 Son Married 44 Builder Gloucestershire Awre
Everett Hawkins abt 1849 Son Unmarried 21 Joiner Gloucestershire East Dean

More details:
John Hawkins married Mary Carter 29 December 1825 in Awre with Blakeney, Gloucestershire.
Christening references (on IGI) to all children apart from George put the family in Blakeney, Gloucestershire.
Everett Hawkins’ birth certificate states his birthplace as ‘Old Furnace Bottom Township’ (as far as is legible).
My line is through Everett, who moves to Warrington between 1881 and 1891.

Any details on the parents etc. of John Hawkins would be very welcome.

Cheers,
Andy