Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Hannah PHELPS nee PRICE Hope Mansell 1820-1898

Hannah PHELPS nee PRICE Hope Mansell 1820-1898 (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 05 Jun 2012 20:11:27 +0000

1851 Census Ruardean
George Phelps abt 1819 Newent Head
Hannah Phelps abt 1821 Hope Mansell, Wife
Charles Phelps abt 1845 Westoe, Son
Sarah Phelps abt 1837 Westoe,Daughter

Year: 1820
Month: Jun
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: PRICE
Child_Forenames: Hannah
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Hope Mansel
Occupation: Farmer
Officiating_Minister: H Berkin
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG68/6
Page_Number: 7
Parish_Chapel: Hope Mansell

Nme: Hannah Price
Name: George Phelps
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1844
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume Number: 26
Page Number: 363

Year: 1844
Month: Sep
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: PHELPS
Child_Forenames: Charles
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: near Bailey
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Edward Johnson Gosling MA Offi[ciating] Minister
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: AG68/6
Page_Number: 36
Parish_Chapel: Hope Mansell

Year: 1898
Month: Feb
Day: 25
Surname: PHELPS
Forenames: Hannah
Residence: Steam Mills
Age_at_death: 74 years
Officiating_Minister: E Parnell
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/13
Page_No: 96
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

George PHELPS 1819 -1901 Cliffords Mesne, Taynton, Newent (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 05 Jun 2012 19:49:47 +0000

1851 Census Ruardean
George Phelps abt 1819 Newent Head
Hannah Phelps abt 1821 Hope Mansell, Wife
Charles Phelps abt 1845 Westoe, Son
Sarah Phelps abt 1837 Westoe,Daughter

Year: 1819
Month: Jan
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: PHELPS
Child_Forenames: George
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Clifford's Mien Parish of Newent
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: W. Beale
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Privately baptized Son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 73
Parish_Chapel: Newent

Name: Hannah Price
Name: George Phelps
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1844
Registration district: Ross
Inferred County: Herefordshire
Volume Number: 26
Page Number: 363

Year: 1846
Month: Dec
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: PHELPS
Child_Forenames: Sarah Jane
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Anna
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Bailey Side
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m C. Brant
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Daughter of
Notes: Sent in written in left margin
Register_Reference: AA33/5
Page_Number: 78
Parish_Chapel: Weston under Penyard

1891
Henry Hickery abt 1835 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Head Llanrhidian Higher, Glamorgan
Sarah J Hickery abt 1847 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Wife Llanrhidian Higher, Glamorgan
Samuel Hickery abt 1863 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Son Llanrhidian Higher, Glamorgan

1901 Steam Mills
George Phelps abt 1821 Newent, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Phelps abt 1857 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Hickery abt 1847 Ruardean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Oliver Phelps abt 1880 Brierley, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Hickery abt 1836 Bristol Father-in-law [SON IN LAW] East Dean, Gloucestershire
Florence Hickery abt 1894 Gonerton, Wales Granddaughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

Name: George Phelps
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1901
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Westbury on Severn
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 186

Year: 1901
Month: Dec
Day: 11
Surname: PHELPS
Forenames: George
Residence: Steam Mills
Age_at_death: 81 years
Officiating_Minister: Edw[ard] Parnell
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/14
Page_No: 7
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean

George PHELPS 1816 (reply)

Antipodean — Thu, 31 May 2012 22:56:32 +0000

In addition to the information provided above, the George listed in the 1851 census was from Newent, Gloucestershire and lived most of his life in Ruardean.

The Newent George was baptised 12 Jan 1819, parents John and Sarah (1), married at Stroud (2) and died in 1907 at Cheltenham (3).

1. baptism

baptism:
Record_ID: 101035
Entry_Number: 582
Year: 1819
Month: Jan
Day: 12
Parents_Surname: PHELPS
Child_Forenames: George
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Clifford's Mien Parish of Newent
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: W. Beale
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Privately baptized Son of
Notes:
Register_Reference: P225 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 73
Parish_Chapel: Newent
Soundex: P412

2. marriage

George Phelps marriage
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1841
Registration district: Stroud
Inferred County: Gloucestershire

3. passing away

George Phelps deceased 1907 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England

George PHELPS 1816 (reply)

Antipodean — Thu, 31 May 2012 22:46:02 +0000

There were two George and Hanna Phelps' in the Forest in the same time period. The ones just listed lived a long (and hopefully) happy life. They were married (probably) in the last quarter (Oct-Nov-Dec) of 1841.

The other George was in the 1841 census with the Hawker children and went on to marry Hannah Jackson (on 5th Nov. 1842), have one known child, be tried for stealing a ram lamb and transported to Van Diemens Land never to return. There is speculation that he then went on to New South Wales and married Mary Hawker (nee Nevell) on 26th Sep. 1853 and be killed in a horse fall on 3 March 1864.

Given such close birth years and their wives having the same first names, it becomes challenging to unravel the records between the two Georges in England!

Civil Parish: Dean Forest Hundred: St Briavells (NB Ruspidge & Cinderford on original census page) County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England

Registration district: Ross Sub registration district: Ross

Household Members: Name Age
Anne Braddington 50 (transcribed incorrectly, actually Brassington)
Belinda Hawker 2
Eliza Hawker 20
Philip Hawker 20
Robert Hawker 15
George Phelps 20

George PHELPS 1819 Taynton, Newent (reply)

jimashton — Thu, 31 May 2012 13:40:54 +0000

1851 Census Ruardean
George Phelps abt 1819 Newent Head
Hannah Phelps abt 1821 Hope Mansell, Wife
Charles Phelps abt 1845 Westoe, Son
Sarah Phelps abt 1837 Westoe,Daughter

1861 Census East Dean
George Phelps 42 Coal Miner Newent
Hannah 40 Hope Mansell
Sarah 14 Weston
Ellen 9 Ruardean
Arthur 6 Ruardean
George 4 Ruardean
Charles 10 months Ruardean

1881 Census Westbury on Severn
George Phelps abt 1819 Newent, Head
Hannah Phelps abt 1821 Hope Mansell, Wife
Arthur Phelps abt 1855 Ruardean, Son
Charles Phelps abt 1861 Ruardean, Son
Edith Phelps abt 1863 Ruardean, Daughter
Joe Phelps abt 1865 East Dean, Son

1891 Census East Dean
George Phelps abt 1819 Taynton, Head
Hannah Phelps abt 1821 Hopewansell, Wife
Arthur Phelps abt 1855 Ruardean, Son
Henry Phelps abt 1857 Ruardean, Son
Oliver G Phelps abt 1880 Bierley, Grandson
Arthur Phelps abt 1862 Taynton, Nephew

1901 Census East Dean Steam Mills
George Phelps abt 1821 Newent,Head
Henry Phelps abt 1857 Ruardean, Son
Sarah Hickery abt 1847 Ruardean, Daughter
Oliver Phelps abt 1880 Brierley, Son
Henry Hickery abt 1836 Bristol Father-in-Law
Florence Hickery abt 1894 Gonerton, Wales Granddaughter

George PHELPS 1816 (reply)

Antipodean — Sun, 27 May 2012 22:46:18 +0000

I have more information on George Phelps, husband of Hannah Jackson, that is relevant to the Biby/Bibe discussion. The first record (below) is the quarter session transcript and the second is the Tasmanian convict transportation transcript. Both record only one child. The first record would refer to Hannah Maria, who was an infant when he was tried. It is possible that he did not know of a second child when he arrived in Australia, but there is still no evidence to support George as the father of Biby/Bibe.

Record CON 14/1/30
Number: 14590
Name: Phelps George
Where tried: Gloucester qu
When tried: 27 June 1843
Height: 5.2¾
Age: 26
Sentence: 10
Religion: P [Protestant]
Read/Write: R [can read]
Married/Single: M
Children: 1
Statement of Offence: Stl a lamb fr W Wood at LittleDean
Surgeon’s report: good
Trade: F Laborer & Wagoner
Native Place: Dean Forest
Remarks: W Hannah F Wm B Jhn (In, Sml???) S Anne (America), Hannah, Eliza, Maria (America)

Phelps George
Transported for: Lamb stealing, gaol report first conviction, unknown stated this offence stealing a lamb from W (H?)ood at Little Dean Married 1 Child
Tried: Gloucester QS 27 June 1843 10 years
Embarked: 27 June 1844
Arrived: 15 November 1844
Surgeon’s report good
Trade: F Labr & Wagoner
Height: 5.2¾
Age: 26
Complexion: Fresh
Head: oval
Hair: D.K. Brown
Whiskers: Brown
Visage: oval
Forehead: Medm Height
Eyebrows: D.K. Brown
Eyes: Hazel
Nose: Medm
Mouth: Medm
Chin: Medm
Nat. Place: Dean Forest

Biby and George PHELPS (reply)

SCATTERBRAIN — Sat, 26 May 2012 21:51:41 +0000

thank you for your input the details of George,s life in Australia after his release fit in with my records, and it is very interesting knowing more about his sentence and how that time was served

I agree with what you say about Bibe baptism but on this record it states Hannah (mother) being a single woman...so I am leaning more to the possibility of John Dorrington being his father....John Dorrington & Hannah are living as husband & wife on 1851 census & they marry in 1858

Biby and George PHELPS (reply)

Antipodean — Sat, 26 May 2012 14:00:19 +0000

Assuming that it is the (to be) convict George Phelps who married Hannah Jackson, then:

Bibe/Biby could still be his if the 1861 census birth year of 1845 is correct - depending on the rules of release or visits between spouses.
Bibe/Biby could not be his if the baptism of 1849 was that of an infant.

The factual evidence around the convict George Phelps is:

Born abt 1818 (from conviction records).
27 June 1843, convicted of stealing a ram lamb (Flaxley district) at Gloucester quarter sessions. Sentenced to 10 years. Gaoled in Cinderford gaol.
27 June 1844, embarked for van Dieman’s Land (during the probationary period of convict transportation).
15 November 1844, arrived in van Dieman’s Land. Worked in gangs for 15 months.
18 February 1846, emerged from gang.
1849 (Tasmanian convict muster), still present, but with his Ticket of leave (having served only 5 years of his 10 year sentence in Australia).

My supposition is that he then set sail from Hobart town on 5th November 1851 for Port Jackson (Sydney) aboard the Emma, as a passenger in steerage class.

The factual evidence around the Australian George Phelps:

was born Forest of Dean abt 1819/20 (Death certificate and children's birth certificates).
1851/52 entered the colony of NSW.
Married Mary Hawker (nee Vincent Nevell) 26 September 1853 at Sofala (New South Wales).
Had three children (George, James, William).
Died 3 March 1864 at Running Stream, from a horse fall.

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822 (reply)

SCATTERBRAIN — Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:07:12 +0000

Thank you for your input it more or less agrees with my records, but Daniel Jackson & Elizabeth Hawker had another daughter Elizabeth (my husband's gt gt grandmother who married John Phelps in 1840 and I believe they had 13 children the eldest John born 1840 being my husband's gt grandfather

Elizabeth Phelps was a witness at her sister Hannah's wedding to George Phelps in 1842 and also at her sister Diana's wedding to John Phipps in 1853

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822 (reply)

unknown — Thu, 20 Oct 2011 22:37:50 +0000

My records show Hannah to be the daughter of Daniel Jackson and Elizabeth Hawker.
Daniels parents: William Jackson and Mary Palmer; Elizabeths parents;Philip Hawker and Dinah Tingle.
Daniel had 5 siblings;William:Mary:Anna:Thomas and Benjamin.
Hannah's siblings:A sister Diana who married John Phelps (or Phipps);A brother Daniel who married Sarah Annis and had 8 children: A brother John who married Sarah Head and had 11 children(one named Biby);a brother William (my Gt Gt Grandfather) who married Harriet Jones and had 10 children, one named Tom who married a Rosannah Apperley;had 3 children in the FOD, then moved to NZ and had 7 more;my grandfather Reginald b 1889 being the last born.

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822 (reply)

lloydnewport — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:01:40 +0000

Hi there,
I have been reading your threads. Hannah Phelps nee Jackson was my 2xGGM. On Biby Phelps's birth certificate of 23 Aug 1849, it states the father as George Phelps. Was this a method to prevent Biby being classed as illegimate if George was in Van Diemens Land? Biby Phelps had a daughter(my grandmother)Hannah Maria b:8 Apr 1873. Seems that the name of Hannah Maria is a family name for a few generations.

Sue Lloyd

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822 (reply)

gillianevans4 — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 20:41:19 +0000

Hi
Thanks for your reply.I have been looking at the information re George Phelps since my last message and I think you are right about him being the convict.
The age is similar and also the fact that he was from Flaxley.Flaxley is a tiny hamlet.I went there once.There is a big old abbey there.It'was a long time ago but all I can recollect are a few cottages.I notice from Hannah Maria's marriage no information re father's occupation.Hannah did not marry John Dorrington for several years after the 1851 census.Isn't there some law that if a spouse "disappears" the partner has to wait 7 years before remarrying.Another point that you made is no death record.
Incidentally Hannah married John Dorrington on 8 dec 1858 witnessed by Hannah Maria Phelps and John Blakemore and Hannah Maria and John Blakemore married on the same day witnessed by her mother and John Dorrington at Cinderford.I wonder if it was a double wedding!!We know that Hannah was cohabiting with John Dorrington in 1851 as she is named as his wife.Possibly she may have been living with him before that and John Dorrington could well have been Bibe's father.I don't know what happened to Hannah Maria and John Blakemore They are in 1861 census but disappear afterwards.I've looked at death records and passenger lists but no trace
Gillian

Biby and George PHELPS (reply)

SCATTERBRAIN — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 17:08:31 +0000

Hi Gillian ……thank you for your input ……..its bit of a mystery regarding the father of Biby Phelps …..on his baptism no father named and it states mother Hannah is a single woman….. on Biby’s marriage in 1871 father is named as George Phelps (deceased) ???????
From census records its quite clear Hannah marries a 2nd time to John Dorrington…..but as yet I have not found a death for George Phelps between 1842 and 1858…thus my reasons for thinking could George Phelps her husband be the convict.

Now yet another twist

While researching I find links on Ancestry.co.uk that suggest after his release George Phelps (convict) marries in NSW to Mary Vincent Hawker nee Nevall (widow) and that Mary Vincent Nevall had previously married in NSW in 1841 to William Hawker and that 3 children born to this marriage

Elizabeth 1841
John Vincent b 1843
Mary Dinah b April 1845 ( all family names in the Hawker line )

William Hawker died in October 1844
They also suggest William Hawker was a convict

Hannah Jackson/Phelps/Dorrington / her mother was Elizabeth Hawker who married Daniel Jackson so I feel they must be connected in some way

Could this be William Hawker ????

William Hawker, one of 300 convicts transported on the Aurora, 03 July 1833
Known aliases:
none

Convicted at Salop Assizes for a term of life on 16 March 1833.
Sentence term:
Life
Ship name:
Aurora
Departure date:
3rd July, 1833
Place of arrival:
New South Wales

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822 (reply)

gillianevans4 — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 12:58:05 +0000

Just read your threads with interest.I didn't know that Hannah Phelps Dorrington had had a daughter with George Phelps.
One thing about your theory that George Phelps was transported to Van Diemans Land in 1845 His son Bibe wasn't born until 1849 Freebmd Dec qtr Westbury on Severn Biby Phelps unless his father was someone else eg John Dorrington.

George PHELPS/DORRINGTON (reply)

m p griffiths — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:52:05 +0000

If you read through all the links, you will find George PHELPS - stole a ram (or) lamb at FLAXLEY - and FLAXLEY is where he had married Hannah JACKSON 5 November 1842

- in previous thread

Entry No. 81
Name: George PHELPS
Age: 25
Description: Brown Hair, Brown Eyes, Round Visage, Common Complexion, several moles on his neck
Collier, 128 5-3
Parish: Cinderford
Date of Admission: 3 June 1843
Cause of Commitment: Charged on the oath of George WILTSHIRE and others with feloniously stealing at Flaxley on the second day of June a ram? lamb the property of William WOOD
When tried: Trinity Sessions 27 June 1843
When Discharged: 28 June 1843
Orderly

-----his accomplice - James WILLIAMS age 19 (Collier) - got 18 months imprisonment

1851 census - Ruspidge

James WILLIAMS - 28 - Coalminer
Sarah - 20
Elizabeth - 1

----

previous threads re: conviction of George PHELPS

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=11747

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=11922#p12099

Gloucestershire Records Office - hold records of two George PHELPS - transported in 1843

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

and cross checking with Ancestry

George PHELPS

age 25

Date of Trial: 27 June 1843 ***

Location of Trial

Gloucestershire England

Sheep Stealing: Transportation, 10 years

*** this ties up with previous thread: Vessel: Lord Auckland, convicted date: 27 June 1843, Voyage Date: 13 July 1844 : Van Diemans's Land

-------

Gloucester Record Office

George PHELPS

age 25 - Collier

Public Address: CINDERFORD

Occupation: Collier

Sentence: TRANSPORTATION

Date of Committal - 3 June 1843

Reference: Q/Gc5/7

Have you obtained a copy of the trial from the Record Office?

another link:

http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/phelps

----

1841 Census, Glos. St Briavels

DORRINGTON

Edward - 40
Jane - 45
Betsy - 20
George - 18
John - 13
Edwd - 11
Mary -9
Betsy

Hannah Phelps nee Jackson b abt 1822

SCATTERBRAIN — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 10:15:34 +0000

previous thread http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=33637

I believe I have found the whereabouts of Hannah Jackson b1826 who married George Phelps in 1842
Hannah Jackson was the daughter of Daniel Jackson & Elizabeth nee Hawker she married George Phelps in 1842….her sister Elizabeth Jackson had married John Phelps in 1840

Children born to Hannah Jackson

Hannah Maria b 1842.....PHELPS Hannah Maria PHELPS PHELPS JACKSON 1842 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 4 301

Record_ID: 77061 Entry_Number: 280 Year: 1843 Month: Jan Day: 1 Parents_Surname: PHELPS Child_Forenames: Anna Maria Fathers_Forenames: William Mothers_Forenames: Anne Mothers_Surname: Residence: Ruspedge Occupation: Labourer Officiating_Minister: J. Chell....could this be an error on record ????

Biby Phelps B 1849...... PHELPS Biby PHELPS PHELPS JACKSON 1849 Forest of
Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 10 4

Record_ID: 6809 Entry_Number: 267 Year: 1849 Month: Nov Day: 18 Parents_Surname: PHELPS Child_Forenames: Biby Fathers_Forenames: not stated Mothers_Forenames: Hannah Mothers_Surname: Residence: Ruspidge Occupation: Single woman Officiating_Minister: J G S

Record_ID: 37293
Entry_Number: 274
Year: 1858
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Grooms_Surname: DORRINGTON
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: Full Age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Miner
Grooms_Residence: Ruspidge
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Dorrington
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Edward
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Quarryman
Brides_Surname: PHELPS
Brides_Forenames: Hannah
Brides_Age: Full Age
Brides_Condition: [not stated]
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Ruspidge
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Jackson
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Daniel
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Haulier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs She marks
Witness_1: John Blakemore
Witness_2: Mark of Hannah Maria Phelps
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Tho[ma]s Gosselin Smythies
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 137
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: D652
Soundex_Bride: P412

1851 appear to be living as man & wife

1851 East Dean
DORRINGTON
DORRINGTON, John Head Married M 24 1827 Miner St Bravels
DORRINGTON, Hannah Wife Married F 25 1826 East Dean
DORRINGTON, Edward Father Widower M 50 1801 Labourer St Bravels
DORRINGTON, Henry Nephew M 9 1842 Errand Boy St Bravels

1861 East Dean
DORRINGTON
John b1827
Hannah b1825
Bibe b 1845 shown as Dorrington but think it should be Phelps
Anne b1854
Louisa b 1858
John b1861

1871 East Dean
DORRINGTON
John b1828
Hannah b1825
Anne b1854
Louisa b 1858
John b1861
Esther b1863
Ellen b1871

1881 East Dean
DORRINGTON
John b1827
Hannah b1825
Esther b1863
DORRINGTON, Humphrey Grand Son b 1872

This gives me a stronger reason to think that George Phelps was the person convicted and sent to Van Diemens land in 1845......been unable to trace a death record for a George Phelps in the time span 1842 - 1858

any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated