Thanks for that, it's a big help. My great great grandfather was Thomas Frederick, I have seen that Hubert moved to Doncaster with his family.

Luke

Alfred died in 1895. At time of 1891 Census he is a Collier living at Brains Green.
William is found in 1881 & 1891 Census as a Police Constable.
Thomas Frederick died in 1930 at Worrall Hill, Lydbrook. In 1891, 1901 and 1911 a Coal Miner living in Lydbrook area.
Joseph is an Iron Miner at time of 1891 Census and living very near his father.
Edwin. Not yet found in 1891 Census. There is a possible in South Wales.
Hubert is an Iron Miner in 1891 and with his father. In 1901 and 1911 he is to be found in Yorkshire.
Henry died in 1875 aged 5 months.

From this Hubert is the most likely son to have been injured in the accident in 1891.

Mike

Oh well, if it was that easy it would be boring I suppose!

Cheers
Luke

Thank you for all of your help! I have read the information regarding the inquests on this site and have tried searching for anything related to William Taylor's death, as well as that of Thomas Evans. I would love to know which of William's sons was injured when he died if possible?

Thanks

Luke

Unfortunately it looks like we will be unable to answer Luke's question regarding which of Joseph Taylor's brothers saw their father die in an accident earlier in the year.

"The case of (Joseph)Taylor is painful, inasmuch as only a few months previously he was working with his father (William Taylor), who was killed in his presence on almost the same spot, whilst another brother was injured."

Sorry Luke!

ChrisW

Mike

Gloucester Journal - Saturday 27 February 1892

CINDERFORD. The Colliery Fatalities Dean Forest.—Mr. M. F. Carter, coroner for the West of Gloucester, held two inquests Monday night, in the neighbourhood of Cinderford, touching the deaths of two men, Edwin George, a horse tender, working at Foxes Bridge Colliery, and William Taylor, miner, working at Buckshaft Iron Mine, Mr. Donald Bain, sub-inspector mines for the south-western district, and Mr. G. H. Rowlinson, miners’ agent, were present at both inquiries. In each case the jury returned a verdict of accidental death.

Gloucestershire Chronicle - Saturday 20 February 1892

Fatalities Dean Forest.— Edwin George, aged 34, labourer, was killed while shunting trucks at Foxes Bridge Colliery on Thursday. Leaves a widow seven children. Yesterday William Taylor, married, with large family, was killed by large stone falling on him while working in the Buckshaft Iron Mine.

Does anyone have a sub to the the British Newspaper Archives please?

There are a couple of mentions of the accident involving William Taylor which may give Luke an answer to his question.

Gloucestershire Chronicle Gloucestershire, England

20 Feb 1892
FOREST OF DEAN DISTRICT

Yesterday William Taylor, married, with large family, was killed by large stone falling on him while working in the Buckshaft Iron Mine.
View article
Type: Article

---------------------------------

Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England

23 Feb 1892
CINDERFORD

the deaths of two men, Edwin a horse tender, working at Foxes Bridge lliam Ta lor m, working Buckshaft Iron Mme. Mr. Donald Bain, sub-inspector ot mines for the south-western district, and Mr G H Kowhnson miners' agent, wero present at both SiS death CaS6
View article
Type: Article

Many Thanks
Chris

I have just come across your post whilst looking for information on my ancestor, William Taylor (great great great grandfather) who was killed in 1892 as mentioned in your post. I would be very interested to find out which of Joseph's brothers were injured when William was killed?

Thanks for the info

Luke

Gill

From the Cardiff Times of 22nd November 1902;

"ENGULPHED IN MUD.
Two Men Drowned in the Severn
A disaster involving the loss of two occurred in the Severn on Friday evening. On the morning of that day Walter Prosser, Primrose Hill, Lydney, foreman water bailiff, Charles Cullimore, of Brookend, Woolaston water bailiff, and Thomas Jordan, of the same address, farmer and fisherman, crossed the river in a boat (the property of Cullimore), from the neighbourhood of Woolaston Station to Oldbury-upon-Severn, the river at that point being four miles wide. As the tide was then pretty well run out they anchored their boat aboat a mile from the shore and proceeded to OlobOj? upou business. They returned to the river side at flood time, soon after 4 o'clock, and started to walk along the sand to their boat. Prosser, who drew ahead, discovered that his mates, particularly Jordan, were encountering some difficulties owing to the depth of mud. He called upon them to come along, and in due course he reached the boat, which was still high and dry. His friends were then a hundred yards bebind and as the tide had by this time begun to surround the boat he implored them to make haste. Their reply was an entreaty to him to bring boat, but as the craft was a heavy one it was impossible to push her off. Every moment the tide grew stronger, and in a very short time men were overwhelmed and drowned. They were practically engulphed in the mud, which held fast, preventing any possible means of escape. As soon as Prosser's boat floated he pulled up to the spot and remained there a couple of hours after which he landed at the Hayward, anchored his boat, and proceeding to a farmhouse obtained assistance. Returning to the scene of the disaster he waited for the water to go down, found Cullimore's body just after midnight about 400 yards from where the accident happened. The body was conveyed to the Anchor Inn. Some hours afterwards the body of Jordan was recovered from the river at a spot about 200 yards farther away. It was not till 1 o'clock on Saturday afternoon that tidings of the occurrence reached Woolastone. Jordan, who was about 60 years of age, leaves a widow. He was a member of the School Board, the Parish Council, Lydney Rural District Council, Chepstow Board of Guardians. He was well known and much respected. Cullimore was a native of Woolaston, and had been in the employ of the Severn Board of Conservators for many years. He was under 50 years oi age, and leaves a widow.

Cuillimore's Self-Sacrifice.
Dr. E. M. Grace, coroner, held an inquest at Oldbury-on-Severn on Monday afternoon, on the bodies of Charles Cullimore and Thomas Jordan, who were drowned on Friday evening in the River Seven. Deceased were both of the same age, 60 years, their birthdays being only four days apart. Cullimore was a water bailiff in the employ of the Severn Board of Conservancy whilst Jordan was a farmer, who also did a little fishing. It appears that the deceased, in tbeír excursion across the water, were joined by Walter Prosser, of Lydney, foreman water bailiff. The watermen bad business at Oldbury with the local waterman, Mr Hennes, as to relieving Cullimore, who had injured his leg and needed a rest, whilst the farmer intended to purchase some fish basket wood. As they started late, they could not get their craft nearer than a mile from the shore. As it was nearly the top of the spring, with a tide of 27 feet, the party arranged to leave Oldbury for their boat about 3 o'clock in order to be in good time, as the flood at that point runs up very swiftly. Prosser reached the boat, but Jordan was a bad walker, and lost time floundering in the mud. Cullimoro returned to him several times, and helped him along. When they found it was impossible to make the boat, they hesitated for a few minutes, and then started for the shore — an impossible task, as the water was already upon them. Cullimore sacrificed his life for his friend. — The witnesses were Walter Prosser, Alfred Till, and Thos. Hennes. Verdict. "Accidentally drowned."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3421342/ART75/lydney

I think this is the correct burial record for Walter Prosser (not a rare name !);

Record_ID: 68978
Entry_Number: 711
Year: 1902
Month: Nov
Day: 19
Surname: JORDAN
Forenames: Thomas
Residence: Garfield Villa Woolaston
Age_at_death: 60 years
Officiating_Minister: J Jones Officiating Minister
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P12 IN 1/8
Page_No: 89
Parish_Chapel: Alvington
Soundex: J635

Aberystwyth Observer, 17th March 1892;
"MOTHERING SUNDAY.
In olden times in certain parts of England it was the custom for folk to attend the parish church on Mid-Lent Sunday for the purpose of making offering. This Sunday was sometimes known as Refresh- ment Sunday, from the fact that the gospel for the day was the story of the miracle of the feeding of the 5000. This custom gave rise to another custom, for on the same day children used to visit their parents, taking simnel cakes with them as a gift. And as it was the mothers that these presents were usually intended for, this Sunday was called Mothering Sunday. In certain districts of the northern and midland counties of England, simnel cakes are still eaten on this Mid-Lent Sunday."
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3045966/ART85/mothering%20sunday

Cardiff Times 4th April 1903;
"Mothering Sunday is passed, and good and faithful affectionate children have joined once more in the custom of carrying mothering cakes. This quaint and pretty custom is still popular in Monmouthshire and some portions of Wales, but it is not general, and we seem to hear less and less of the Simnel cakes and Mothering Sunday. More's the pity, for it is the custom which is not so liable to abuse as the observance of Palm Sunday, which readers will not need to be told falls to-morrow. In South Wales the beautiful custom of decorating the graves on Palm Sunday has sadly degenerated into a practice of a most regrettable character. It has been robbed of all its beauty and true significance by the lavish way in which money is spent upon flowers, not so much out of respect for the dead as in competition with the living. Palm Sunday has grown into a huge flower contest, and the whole populace frequent the cemeteries in anything but a reverential and orderly spirit. It is a day of revelry and of noisy talk, more approaching a fair-time than the places of the dead. Indeed, to such extremes has the regrettable practice been carried that the question of closing the graveyards and cemeteries on Palm Sunday has been seriously discussed. A beautiful custom has been sadly degraded, and money is spent in a competitive spirit and for show which should properly go for food for children or on clothing for their backs. It is noted, too, that graves neglected the whole year round suddenly receive attention a few days prior to Palm Sunday, when they are smothered with costly flowers. Flowering Sunday has lost nearly all its beautiful significance, and the noisy revel in and around the graveyards is most unseemly."
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3415182/ART130/mothering%20sunday

South Wales Weekly Post, 29th March 1919;
"MUMBLES MOTHERS.
Mid Lent Sunday, which is widely known in various parts of the country as Mother- ing Sunday," is very little known in this part of the world, and many people have never even heard of it. Mrs Harold Williams, wife of the Vicar of Oystermouth, is endeavouring to make it more widely known and observed, and on Thursday evening a meeting of mothers was held in the Parish Hall, Mumbles, when Mrs Williams gave a pleasing and interesting account of the origin of the custom. In the Jewish Church the Jews always endeavoured to visit the Temple on this day, and following that the early Christians used to visit their Mother Church on the date. Each mother receiving a small cake named a "Semmel" cake. The aim of Mrs Williams' address was to show the need of unity in the Church and home. During the evening a charming little play, entitled "In praise of Mother," was performed by the following ciiildren: - Joyce Moore, Freda Parry, Ivy Arthurs, Nettie Tarr, Molly and Irene Oakey, Jacy Tarr, and Eric Stephens, wbile appropriate songs were given by Miss Naylor."
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4110905/ART28/mothering%20sunday

I hope all the Mothers in our lives, be they past, present or expecting, enjoy very pleasant Mothering Sundays - not to mention all the other Sundays too !

I was therefore a little surprised to only find a few articles about it reported by the many and various Welsh Newspapers across the decades, albeit all beautifully written, and showing interesting changes of reporting styles and emphasis over the passing years;

Cardiff and Merthyr Guardian, Glamorgan, Monmouth, and Brecon Gazette, 29th March 1862;
MIDLENT, OR "MOTHERING SUNDAY."
This day received its appellative of Midlent Sunday, because it is the fourth, or middle Sunday between Quadragesima, or the first Sunday in Lent, and Easter Sunday, by which latter, the Lenten season is governed. Several of our ecclesiastical writers denominate it Dominica Refectionis, or the Sunday of Refreshment, a term considered to have been applied to it from the Gospel of the day, treating of our Saviour's miraculous feeding of the five thousand, and from the first lesson in the morning, containing the relation of Joseph entertaining his brethren. But the common or vulgar appellation which this day still retains, is Mothering Sunday, a term expressive of the ancient usage of visiting the Mother (Cathedral) Churches of the several dioceses, when voluntary offerings— then denominated Denarii Quadrageminales, now the Lent or Easter offerings—were made, which by degrees were settled into an annual composition, or pecuniary payments charged on the parochial priests, who were presumed to have received these oblations from their respective congregations. We yet also retain the ancient epistle for Midlent Sunday, which expressly alludes to Jerusallem, the mother of all Christian Churches (Cowel, &c., &c). The public processions formerly usual on this Sunday, have been discontinued since the middle of the 13th century, and the contributions made upon that occasion, settled into the present trifle paid by the people under the title of Easter offerings but the name of Mothering Sunday is still not inaptly applied to this day, and a custom which was substituted by the commonalty, is yet practised in many places, particularly in Cheshire, of visiting their natural mother, instead of the Mother Church, and presenting to her small tokens of their filial affection, either in money or trinkets, or more generally in some species of regale, such as frunety, fermety, or frumenty, so called from frumentum (wheat being its principal ingredient), which being boiled in the whole grain, and mixed with sugar, milk, spice, and sometimes with the addition of raisins or currants, form altogether an agreeable repast. This mark of filial respect has long since been abolished in the South, though another custom to which it gave way, of the landlords of public-houses presenting messes of this nature to the families who regularly dealt with them, is much within the memory of many persons yet living.— Brady's Clavis Calendaria
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3093058/ART26/mothering%20sunday

Cardiff Weekly Mail, 24th March 1894;
"PALM SUNDAY AT CARDIFF.
[BY OUR LADY CORRESPONDENT]
It seems to be a very old custom, that of decorating the graves with flowers on Palm Sunday — Flowering Sunday, as it is called — in Welsh parishes. Doubtless the people, who have ever been an intensely religious tendency, had the strewing of palms and leaves before Christ in their mind, and the connection between strewing flowers on the graves of those whom they love to think of is not far to seek. In country districts, for days before Palm Sunday, the woods and hedges are rifled of the few blossoms that have blown by little busy fingers, who weave them lovingly into wreaths, and in every cottage there are plants tenderly watched and watered and nurtured for the day. It is to me far more pathetic to see a broken tumbler, with a humble little root of violets or snowdrops carried so carefully and placed on the grave so lovingly, than to see a tomb covered with costly wreaths woven by hired hands, or pots of gorgeous azaleas or lilies bought on Saturday at the florist's, and often placed on the family tomb by servants. I remember, years ago, in the little town of Crickhowell, the school children had two, if not three, days' holiday this week to be free to collect flowers, and they used to bring them to the school-house to arrange, and there was always a table covered with flowers and wreaths "for the forgotten dead"— those whose graves bore no tombstone, whose very names were forgotten, and where no mourners ever came to look. I thought it was such a touching thought. In England it is also a fairly general custom, though subject to variations of ceremonial. In Somerset and Devon, and possibly other districts, the day is called "Mothering Sunday," and girls in service or any kind of situation go home to see their mothers and take them presents. Palm Sunday observance is decidedly on the increase as far as this district is concerned. The florists tell me they have never sold so many flowers, or had so many orders for costly wreaths. One shop is crammed in profusion with the costliest cut flowers — orchids, delicate, white, and yellow roses, and pink ones. Lilies of every species are booked and being made up into lovely wreaths and crosses as fast as fingers can work. A lovely silvery moss was shown me as a background for crosses, and nineteen hundredweight of cut flowers were delivered on Thursday there. In other shops the flowers extend beyond the available space in rich abundance, and the supply is not greater than the demand. Up in Roath and in Canton the homely potato and green cabbage are shoved out of sight to make room for flowers of every kind, and plants, lilies, tulips, speirea, arums, seem the favourite white blossoms. Violets and daffodils are being sold in handfuls, ard about the small streets carts of flowers are going round and being quickly purchased evenby the very poorest."
http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3369137/ART55/mothering%20sunday

"More than 200,000 new pages have been added to Welsh Newspapers Online, as we release 27 publications titles from the Library’s rich collection on Welsh Newspapers Online.
The resource now allows you to search and read over 630,000 pages from almost 100 newspaper publications from the National Library’s collection, and this will grow to over one million pages as more publications are added during 2014.
Among the latest titles are Y Negesydd, Caernarvon and Denbigh Herald, Glamorgan Gazette, Carmarthen Journal, Welshman, and Rhondda Leader, not forgetting Y Drych, the weekly newspaper for the Welsh diaspora in America.
The resource also includes some publications that were digitised for The Welsh Experience of World War One project."

The full list of newspapers within the online library is here, with new additions highlighted. http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=4723

Those new additions which may be of particular interest to us include the
Abergavenny Chronicle, Barry Dock News, Brecon County Times, Glamorgan Gazette, Herald of Wales and Monmouthshire Recorder, Monmouth Guardian, and the South Wales Weekly Post.
All of these cover the First World War period.

Search this excellent free site from http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/home

Searchers with particular years in mind can use the site's filters so as to only search within that chosen year. As a starter I've just searched "Cinderford", my home town, and have found the following articles which I hope are of interest:

From "The Brecon & Radnor Express", 9th September 1915;

"Notes and Notions.
Among the 1st Herefords reported killed and wounded in the Dardanelles are several men from Radnorshire. They are :-Killed, Private J. W. Turner (Knighton), Private G. Morgan (Rhayader), and Sergeant Raymond (Ross); and wounded, Sergeant G. Stinton (Knighton), Private J. E. Edwards (Builth), Corporal F. Booth and Private Wallace Burgess (Presteign), Private C. E. Evans (Old Radnor), Private C. G. Lane and Private E. Cresswell (Cinderford), and Corporal H. Thomas (Knighton)."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4093820/ART53/cinderford

And, by coincidence from the same title, but 11 January 1917;

"Lloiney Hero.
THE LATE SERGT. W. ADAMS.
A young officer of great courage, daring, and ability, well-known at Lloiney and throughout the Teme Valley, has fallen in France in the person of Sergt. W. Adams who was the son of Mr and Mrs Adams, of Cinderford, Gloucestershire, and the nephew of Mr and Mrs John Jones, The Birches, Lloiney. He had been recommended for the D.C.M which is a clear indication of his valour and heroism. He had only arrived in Canada a short time before war broke out, but he was amongst the first to volunteer for the service of the old country and, after receiving the necessary training, which was completed in England, he was sent to France, where he took part in several hot engagements, ultimately falling in action on November 28th. He was a young man who was very highly respected, and much sympathy goes out to all the bereaved friends and relatives, who are to be congratulated on the fact that their loved one was deemed worthy of the coveted honour of the Distinguished Conduct Medal".

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/4094455/ART68/Lloiney%20Hero

(NB Lloiney is near Knighton, Powys)

====================================================================================

I wish to take this opportunity to express sincere thanks to Messrs Davies & Drinkwater for their considerable efforts in compiling this site's newest addition, the Forest of Dean WW1 Servicemen database. This is a huge undertaking and it goes without saying that all three of the above Forest soldiers are included. Thanks Martin & David.

One old tradition these sites seem to have ommitted is the "lucky" chimney sweep which we had in 1991 Banbury, does this still happen in the Forest ?.

"Tradition has it that 200 years ago, a chimney Sweep saved the life of King George II by stopping his runaway horse and carriage. The King issued a Royal Decree that Chimney Sweeps are bringers of luck and should be treated with the greatest of respect. So started the tradition and because sweeps are lucky, couples would arrange to meet the sweep at their Wedding."

I see these modern times have also created an online niche business, and Wye knot ?
http://www.luckychimneysweeps.co.uk/

Well well, many thanks gents for confirming this was a true tradition and not just over-enthusiastic journalism, very interesting indeed and great fun too. Such a shame these things die out, perhaps encouraged by the unsympathetic views of some of those who uphold the law. Perhaps it failed in this instance because the groom was from London, was unaware of the tradition, and maybe even thought he was being mugged ?

No I realise they weren't "forced" marriages, but my youth was mis-spent watching too many Western films where the phrase "roping" took on a slighgtly different meaning so I'm afraid I couldn't get that cowboy image out of my head.

Thanks again.

I suspect this was a local variation on the old customs like Barring the way, Handfasting (tying the knot ?) and jumping a besom.

http://www.snopes.com/weddings/customs/barring.asp

http://www.brideandgroom.com/wedding-articles/wedding-traditions-2.asp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/history/tying_the_knot_handfasting_through_the_ages.shtml
http://medievalscotland.org/history/handfasting.shtml

In centuries gone by, handfasting was a popular custom in the British Isles.

http://www.llewellyn.com/journal/article/1358

No I realise they weren't "forced" marriages, but my youth was mis-spent watching too many Western films where the phrase "roping" took on a slighgtly different meaning so I'm afraid I couldn't get that cowboy image out of my head.

Thanks again.

Mike