Forest of Dean FHT Forum - William Henry PARSONS - Double View School, Cinderford

William Henry PARSONS - Double View School, Cinderford (reply)

HarryBrook — Sun, 23 Jun 2013 15:51:31 +0000

Jefff,
I did not realise this topic ran on a bit. Sorry I did not respond to your question about war memorials in the old East Dean Grammar School at Cinderford. There was one to the pupils who lost their lives in WW1 and another one for those lost in WW2. They were removed to the theatre of the school/college at Five Acres, Coleford. I can't remember the exact name; they change so often. I think it started off as Forest of Dean Grammar School before it went comprehensive. I believe they are now at the Cinderford Town Council Offices at Cinderford. There was also a memorial which I believe came from Bells Grammar School, Coleford to the memory of the former pupils of that school who were lost in WW2. I do not know of the whereabouts of the latter. I photographed all three when they were at Five Acres. I will scan them and upload them to this site ASAP.
Harry

.... more info please (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:44:51 +0000

Thanks for that S, yes I understand better now. Part of my thinking was when I copy & paste census data during my Library Ancestry expeditions it automatically includes the Occupation within each line, for no extra work/time on my part. I had assumed (dangerous I know) that you obtained your census "listings" in a similar manner. However on reflection plus your helpfull reply I now see this isn't the case as it would take far too long for the majority of the routine posts of which you produce so many. I therefore suspect you use a different system altogether. Eitherway please don't think I'm suggesting it's the wrong system or such like, I'm a strong believer in the "don't fix whats not broke" philosophy, I guess I was hoping it might be just a cheap & easy software update, perhap, but clearly if that was the case you'd have already done so.
Please be assured I do fully appreciate that you're doing all this excellent forum work as well as doing your "day" job and family life etc, and that it does take a lot of time & effort for which we are all gratefull, especially as you're on the move a lot which I hadn't realised.

Cheers Jeff.

.... more info please (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 06:32:50 +0000

Back to my initial query to your good self earlier in this thread - I always like to see and interprete the occupations on Census forms, I believe they are a key element of the Census findings hence our ancestors' lives. However your posted census listings (for want of a better word) rarely if ever seem to include occupations which in my opinion is a shame.

Although I'm sure you have your reasons please, if practical & possible, could you consider including this important information in your census listings in future ?. I'm sure this would be of great interest to all forum users particularly those whose queries you're answering, it can only enhance your already excellent Census posts especially after all your skillfull efforts finding them in the first place.

Jefff

The reasons are simple - it depends on where and when the response is put together - at one extreme I might be using a tablet on a train with an intermittent signal, in which case the response can often be short and to the point - perhaps updated later in the day
at the other extreme I might be in my office with all my research materials at hand and not under any time pressure, in which case I will give what I consider to be the relevant information to the query, sometimes that includes an occupation , sometimes an address, for example if it helps confirm that the James MEEK census data is the James Meek coal miner rather than James MEEK iron miner.

hope this helps
S

Stationary Engine driver (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:46:32 +0000

And on that bombshell !... ;-)

Fair enough Slowhands, not for the first time & probably not the last clearly I'm wrong, but I'm always happy to live & learn even by mistakes (as long as harmless ones). I honestly thought otherwise in this case, based on my own fair knowledge of the subject as a mechanical engineer, plus my own experiences of the Victorian census forms and my researches into the various jobs and descriptions; but I will always happily go with the evidence of course and revise my thinking. I apologise unreservedly for not properly reading the aforementioned Census details, I cannot explain why the facts didn't sink in, maybe all this sun we've had today ?. Joking aside, I should have posted to thank you for these extra details more promptly, if I had done I hope I'd have been more focussed as clearly I wasn't on re-"read"ing the thread today, the 1911 Census details sunk-in but the rest did not.... sorry.

Back to my initial query to your good self earlier in this thread - I always like to see and interprete the occupations on Census forms, I believe they are a key element of the Census findings hence our ancestors' lives. However your posted census listings (for want of a better word) rarely if ever seem to include occupations which in my opinion is a shame.

Although I'm sure you have your reasons please, if practical & possible, could you consider including this important information in your census listings in future ?. I'm sure this would be of great interest to all forum users particularly those whose queries you're answering, it can only enhance your already excellent Census posts especially after all your skillfull efforts finding them in the first place.

Thanks again, Jeff J.

Apologies also to any descendants of the Parsons family, it was only ever my intention when starting this thread to commemorate and honour the sacrifice of William during WW1, not start a debate.

Engine driver (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:34:47 +0000

Hi S,
yes I see where you're coming from, and yes there were many more steam engine applications beyond "just" the railways by then, so thanks for raising a fair and valid point. However for what it's worth personally in this case I err on the railway side, given the Parsons' address very near the Station and the fact it's a husband and son pairing of "driver" & "fireman", but yes this is one of those tricky areas which is not helped as the words & their meaning vary around the country.

Apart from on the railways, stationary steam engines were already the country's major power source, supplying rotational power for machinery in factories & mills, dynamos in power stations, water pumping stations for drinking & sewerage, cranes & saws at stone quarries, winding & fan engines in the collieries, furnace blowers in ironworks, and so on. Also as you say relatively "portable" engines were developed which were towed (not self-propelled yet) around the farms to belt-drive separate machinery for threshing, cider-making, etc, or powering circular saw-benches in woodfelling areas such as ours. Eventually these were developed into self-propelled tractors (aka traction engines), still with flywheel pulleys for driving belts. In more agricultural areas such as East Anglia these were also developed into longer more powerfull engines with huge underslung winches to tow wide ploughs across fields, far faster than horses could ever manage. Altho these were unlikely in the Forest, steam tractors were used locally for heavy road haulage to & from the railway depots, such as by Mitcheldean cement works and quarries, or for lumber, replacing huge horse teams.

Back to the users, I've seen the terms mechanic, engineer, engineman, engine tender, fireman and more applied to the operators of (most probably) stationary engines on census forms.

Strictly speaking a fireman is the coal shoveller, aka stoker in ship-speak; in many stationary-engine applications the power and speed demand on the steam engine was more-or-less constant, so the vast majority of work associated with it was "just" feeding it with fuel and lubricating oil. This was essentially "only" a fireman's tasks, so part-negating the need for a separate and more highly skilled (& paid!) driver; hence the term fireman seems to appear more commonly in these environments. Also the term bankman was used in the colliery winding houses, he controlled the cage movement in the shaft hence was "over" the engineman/fireman.

However the term driver, I think, more often indicates the most highly skilled engine operators, that is of moving locomotives, either on rails or road. In these cases the driver clearly has a more complex & difficult job, hence the term "driver" to emphasise this. Of course as in other professions exaggerated claims were often made, but I do feel the dual role of "driver" and "fireman" is relevant in this case. Such a family pairing was always preferred and encouraged by the railway companies as teamwork was key, all drivers only became such after years moving up the ladder from cleaner to greaser to fireman etc, often within a family.
Similarly a road traction haulage business was a huge investment so the operators would be kept within the family if possible.

So again thanks Slowhands for raising a valid point, and of course I could well be wrong in this uncertain "science", but in this case I prefer the romance of rail.

I think if you check the 1891 and 1901 the expression is Stationary Engine Driver which probably rules out Rail at least during that 10 year period ....

Engine driver (reply)

jhopkins — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:33:10 +0000

My maternal grandfather's occupation was recorded here in NZ as "stationary engine driver". He was in charge of the engine that ran the local woollen mills. I would imagine usage like this had not diverged much in NZ from English terminology by that time (first third of 20th C).

Engine driver (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:11:58 +0000

Hi S,
yes I see where you're coming from, and yes there were many more steam engine applications beyond "just" the railways by then, so thanks for raising a fair and valid point. However for what it's worth personally in this case I err on the railway side, given the Parsons' address very near the Station and the fact it's a husband and son pairing of "driver" & "fireman", but yes this is one of those tricky areas which is not helped as the words & their meaning vary around the country.

Apart from on the railways, stationary steam engines were already the country's major power source, supplying rotational power for machinery in factories & mills, dynamos in power stations, water pumping stations for drinking & sewerage, cranes & saws at stone quarries, winding & fan engines in the collieries, furnace blowers in ironworks, and so on. Also as you say relatively "portable" engines were developed which were towed (not self-propelled yet) around the farms to belt-drive separate machinery for threshing, cider-making, etc, or powering circular saw-benches in woodfelling areas such as ours. Eventually these were developed into self-propelled tractors (aka traction engines), still with flywheel pulleys for driving belts. In more agricultural areas such as East Anglia these were also developed into longer more powerfull engines with huge underslung winches to tow wide ploughs across fields, far faster than horses could ever manage. Altho these were unlikely in the Forest, steam tractors were used locally for heavy road haulage to & from the railway depots, such as by Mitcheldean cement works and quarries, or for lumber, replacing huge horse teams.

Back to the users, I've seen the terms mechanic, engineer, engineman, engine tender, fireman and more applied to the operators of (most probably) stationary engines on census forms.

Strictly speaking a fireman is the coal shoveller, aka stoker in ship-speak; in many stationary-engine applications the power and speed demand on the steam engine was more-or-less constant, so the vast majority of work associated with it was "just" feeding it with fuel and lubricating oil. This was essentially "only" a fireman's tasks, so part-negating the need for a separate and more highly skilled (& paid!) driver; hence the term fireman seems to appear more commonly in these environments. Also the term bankman was used in the colliery winding houses, he controlled the cage movement in the shaft hence was "over" the engineman/fireman.

However the term driver, I think, more often indicates the most highly skilled engine operators, that is of moving locomotives, either on rails or road. In these cases the driver clearly has a more complex & difficult job, hence the term "driver" to emphasise this. Of course as in other professions exaggerated claims were often made, but I do feel the dual role of "driver" and "fireman" is relevant in this case. Such a family pairing was always preferred and encouraged by the railway companies as teamwork was key, all drivers only became such after years moving up the ladder from cleaner to greaser to fireman etc, often within a family.
Similarly a road traction haulage business was a huge investment so the operators would be kept within the family if possible.

So again thanks Slowhands for raising a valid point, and of course I could well be wrong in this uncertain "science", but in this case I prefer the romance of rail.

Engine driver (reply)

slowhands — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 17:09:18 +0000

-----

Thanks also to Slowhands for kindly updating your earlier post and confirming Walter and William Parson were both railway enginemen. I'm sure you found my request odd considering I'd already posted a Marriage PR which suggested this, sorry for not seeing the woods for the trees in my late-night enthusiasm ;-)

J

Engine driver, I think is generic, i.e. any "steam" engine; stationary more commonly used for a fixed engine driving machinery ( belts/ shafts etc)in a factory / colliery - (winding engine) rather than a railway engine. And occasionally on a farm !

William Henry PARSONS - Double View School, Cinderford (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:06:12 +0000

Good afternoon HB,
please accept my belated apologies for your detailed reply re the Great War fallen of Cinderford and specifically Double View School, all very interesting indeed. As we've discussed here before sometimes these public Memorials do contain errors or surprise entries or ommissions, to be expected in those days, it's good to hear the Cinderford Memorial was at least updated to reflect this as best as possible. I'm pleased to hear the "sailor" Ivor Jaynes is listed, one of my ancestors also died in the Royal Naval Divisions during the Advance to Victory yet he isn't mentioned on any of the relevant memorials, we assume this was at the request of his mother.
It's a sobering fact to hear that 87 ex boys of Double View School lost their lives in the War, all those from "just" one school in a small rural town; it serves to illustrate just how massive the total losses were during WW1 across the involved Countries and the significant effects within all those communities. I suppose it's also a good reflection of the patriotic uptake across Europe in those days, as was the fund-raising efforts by the School to create what sounds like a fitting Memorial. Sadly my sister doesn't ever recall seeing the Memorial in her days at DVSS, altho she says the pupils didnt routinely use the main entrance much as we weren't "allowed to" at RFDGS. I will write to the Academy and enquire as to the Memorial's current state, I'm sure it will still be there and well cared-for.

For full list of names see http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43700

On a similar subject, I spent a few years at Cinderford Technical College in the 80s, previously East Dean Grammar School of course. I recall the main front entrance off Station Street & the long corridor therein was ornately-built and contained some engraved "tablets" set into the walls. No doubt one relates to the opening ceremony etc, but do you please know if there is also a War Memorial related to EDGS past pupils and staff, if so I hope they're also still there now as I'm told this part of the building is still in use ?.

Regarding the "surprise" entries on the Triangle Memorial, I suspect you include the man responsible for the ornate Gates of St Stephen's Church ?. This was always our family Church so I read the history behind the gates with great interest from the excellent article within Issue 25 of The New Regard, my mother's still actively involved with the Church and she and her fellow Parishioners found it most interesting too.

-----

Thanks also to Slowhands for kindly updating your earlier post and confirming Walter and William Parson were both railway enginemen. I'm sure you found my request odd considering I'd already posted a Marriage PR which suggested this, sorry for not seeing the woods for the trees in my late-night enthusiasm ;-)

William Henry PARSONS - Double View School, Cinderford (reply)

HarryBrook — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 18:14:19 +0000

Jefff,
There are many incorrect ranks on the Cinderford War Memorial. For example Pte. Ivor JAYNE, more correctly JAYNES, was an Able Seaman in "Anson" Battalion, the Royal Naval Division who died in the 1918 Battle of the Somme in the Advance to Victory as it was known. I believe the Pte. Wm. Hy. PARSONS on the memorial is Able Seaman William Henry PARSONS lost on the S.S.Cyrene. There is no other recorded local candidate.
He is included on the Laura Morse Scrapbook C.D. but I got my information many years ago by studying the Dean Forest Mercury portfolios at the old Mercury Office in Woodside Street.
The Double View Secondary School WW1 war memorial consisted of a large wooden shield with a silver medallion in the centre depicting scenes of gardening and smallholding, and around the edges of the shield are small individual silver shields, 87 of them from my records, each giving the ex-pupil's name, place where he died, and date (not all accurate!). I understand the funds for the memorial were raised by the post-war pupils raising pigs at the school. When D.V.S.S. closed the memorial was taken to Heywood Community School where it was hung in the reception area. This school has now been re-named Forest E-Act Academy. I do not know, but hope, the memorial is still there, but there did not seem a lot of interest in it when I saw it many years ago. Perhaps the forthcoming centenary of the Great War may spark some interest in it.
In recent years an addendum plaque has been added to the Cinderford town war memorial commemorating James Lewis and Percy Jackson both Gloucestershire Regt. men from Ruspidge and Buckshaft respectively, and for some reason also Pte. Reuben Rayner Taylor, Canadian Expetionary Force who was born in Cinderford (Victoria Street) 1893, but died in TEXAS in 1926.
Interestingly there are three deserters on the town memorial, two convicted (and served jail terms), and one who was declared a deserter but re-enlisted undetected and died in the war. I do not intend to reveal their identities, although one was mentioned in a published work about two years ago.
Harry

William Henry PARSONS - Double View School, Cinderford (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 15:29:10 +0000

Thanks very much HB for your interesting extra detail. So it seems William wasn't "born" a sailor in the traditional sense or already at sea, but had bravely volunteered to serve his country in it's hour of need, much as I'd expected. Given his pre-war job one wonders if he served in the ship's engine-room, clearly more suited to his experience as a skilled engine-driver compared to the Infantry for example, and probably more attractive and better paid too. If this was the case one can only imagine how awful his final moments were, perhaps working deep within the ship when the torpedo struck home....
When he joined in 1916 the pre-war Merchant navy was under hugely-increased demand delivering men & materials to and from the battlefields of France and beyond, plus feeding the Home country. This at a time when many of it's more experienced and key sailors may have joined the more conventional fighting forces before the dangers of the U Boats became clear, so the addition of new recruits like William was key to their continued work.

Personally for me the most interesting part of the Census information by far is the recorded occupations of the people surveyed, so thanks for adding this background detail. Unfortunately I don't know his father's working background, altho' I see from Slowhands' reply that William's grandparents lived at Crump Meadow Colliery abt 1885 so it's possible if not probable his father Walter worked there too ?. Maybe he was also an engine driver given his later Station Terrace address ???

If possible Slowhands can this extra information please be added to the above Census information ?. Thanks for confirming my belief that William's mother was from the Cirencester area, and also that I was wrong in wondering if the whole family originated from there following their jobs (eg nail-making, as others had done).

Back to the Mercury obituary; thanks HB so much for reminding me of this. Am I correct in thinking this might have come from the Laura Morse Scrapbook ?. Only last week I was reminded of this cd and requested it for Father's Day, to me it looks very interesting and good value.
http://79.170.40.163/forestofdeanhistory.org.uk/LHScdWWIscrapbook.html

Finally HB, you mention William is included on the Double View School Memorial.
Do you please know if the Memorial is still in existence, perhaps at the "new" Latimer School which replaced Double View ?. My sisters both attended DV but don't recall any more, they were both VERY keen to leave....
Has anyone transcribed/photographed the DV Memorial ?.

I did lookup online to see if William was recorded on the War Memorial Statue in Cinderford's Triangle, but only have the following list to go on. http://www.memorialtranscripts.co.uk/Compressed/gloucestershire_ww1.html

A William H. Parsons is listed who is probably him, but this man is shown as a Private and the name is quite a common one in those days, so ?. This may well be an understandable error on the Memorial or in transcription, all the names listed appear to be Army men and the statue is a Soldier. I'm ashamed to say I've never actually studied the inscriptions on the Memorial, I will do so and photograph it on my next trip home very soon.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford/pages/page_44.html

Thanks again all, and to William Henry Parsons and family.

Willian Henry PARSONS 1886 - 1918 Cinderford R I P

slowhands — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 10:56:00 +0000

At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them

Name:William Henry Parsons
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1886
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:255

PARSONS, WILLIAM HENRY
Rank:Able Seaman
Service No:Wales/Z/2966
Date of Death:05/04/1918
Age:31
Regiment/Service:Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve S.S. "Cyrene."
Panel Reference30.
MemorialPLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL
Additional Information:

Son of Walter and Jane Parsons, of 6, Station Terrace, Cinderford, Glos.

William Henry PARSONS Cinderford (reply)

HarryBrook — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 09:59:42 +0000

At the time of his death William Henry PARSONS was aged 31 years, unmarried. After leaving Double View Secondary School, Cinderford (where he is remembered on the school war memorial as "W. H. Parsons Irish Sea 5.4.18") he worked at Crump Meadow Colliery, later moving to work as an engine driver at Penarth Cement Works. He joined the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve in 1916. This from his obituary in the Dean Forest Mercury.

Walter PARSONS 1855 - 1933 Cinderford (reply)

slowhands — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 05:52:53 +0000

Name:Walter Parsons
Birth Date:abt 1856
Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1933
Age at Death:77
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:452

1911 6 Station Terrace, Station Road, Cinderford
Walter Parsons 55 Cinderford Engine Driver
Jane Parsons 50 Colesbourne
William [H] [Thomas] Parsons 24 Cinderford Fireman
Lillian E Parsons 21 Cinderford

1901
Walter Parsons abt 1859 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire Engine Driver Stationary
Jane Parsons abt 1861 Colesbourne, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Harry Parsons abt 1887 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lilian Parsonsabt 1890 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Edward Baldwin abt 1817 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire, England Boarder East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jermiah Mate abt 1836 Drybrook, Gloucestershire, England Boarder East Dean, Gloucestershire

1891
Samuel Spencer abt 1848 Hampsthwaite, Gloucestershire, England Head Colesbourne, Gloucestershire
Ann Spencer abt 1853 Cowley, Gloucestershire, England Wife Colesbourne, Gloucestershire
Ethel Spencer abt 1880 North Cerney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Colesbourne, Gloucestershire
William H Pardon abt 1887 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Nephew Colesbourne, Gloucestershire

1891 Bilson Green
Waller Parsons abt 1859 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire Stationary Engine Driver
Jane Parsons abt 1861 Colsbowrne, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Lilian E Parsons abt 1890 Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

Name:Walter Parsons
Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1855
Registration District:Westbury on Severn
Inferred County:Gloucestershire
Volume:6a
Page:172

Then back to father Timothy :-
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=26916

William Henry PARSONS born 14 August 1886. (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 06 Jun 2013 00:18:48 +0000

In this case we are fortunate as the CWGC webpage for William includes an extra note stating he "was aged 31 in April 1918, the Son of Walter and Jane Parsons, of 6 Station Terrace, Cinderford, Glos."

So also confirms his birthyear as 1886/1887.

I cannot find him within FoD PRs, but from GlosBMD this seems good at first glance:

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
PARSONS William Henry PARSONS PARSONS SMITH 1886 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 55 83

FreeBMD shows his birth was registered July/Aug/September 1886, so fitting the RNVR Record of 14 August 1886.

However further searching GlosBMD & FreeBMD only seems to give this associated Marriage, is it William's parents ?. I think yes, but ?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1883 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PARSONS Walter Cirencester 6a 731
SMITH Jane Cirencester 6a 731

I was a little doubtfull as searching this site's FoD PRs gave what seemed like a good fit; however now I think not, just a close coincidence.

Record_ID: 2997
Entry_Number: 133
Year: 1871
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: PARSONS
Grooms_Forenames: Walter
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Carpenter
Grooms_Residence: Woodside
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Parsons
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Clerk
Brides_Surname: ELLIOTT
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth Jane
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Woodside
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Elliott
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Mark of William Elliott
Witness_2: Mark of Mary Ann Eacup
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Geo[rge] Al[exander] Allan Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 67
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: P625
Soundex_Bride: E430

CLEARLY the bride isn't a Smith, so probably NOT our family, so close, but yet...

Searching this site's FoD PRs I cannot find our William at all. Searching Baptisms for Walter Parsons & Jane Smith gives this which fits nicely as a possible sibling ?

Record ID 333022
Entry Number 582
Year 1910
Month Nov
Day 10
Parents Surname PARSONS
Child Forenames Lillian Ethel
Fathers Forenames Walter
Mothers Forenames Jane
Mothers Surname
Residence Upper Bilson
Occupation Engine driver
Officiating Minister J Martin Vicar
Event Baptism
Memoranda Aged 23
Notes
Register Reference P85/2 IN 1/2
Page Number 73
Parish Chapel Cinderford St Stephen

Record_ID: 78380
Entry_Number: 55
Year: 1913
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: BOWKETT
Grooms_Forenames: Harold
Grooms_Age: 23
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Bowkett
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Edwin
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier [deceased]
Brides_Surname: PARSONS
Brides_Forenames: Lilian Ethel
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Parsons
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Walter
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Engine Driver
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Tom Bowkett
Witness_2: William Henry Parsons
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J Martin Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/2 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 28
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex_Groom: B230
Soundex_Bride: P625

Record_ID: 8350
Entry_Number: 1318
Year: 1933
Month: Jan
Day: 14
Surname: PARSONS
Forenames: Walter
Residence: 62 Valley Road
Age_at_death: 77
Officiating_Minister: C Paul Gliddon
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: A/3/25
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 165
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: P625

Record_ID: 108141
Entry_Number: 672
Year: 1955
Month: Mar
Day: 22
Surname: PARSONS
Forenames: Jane
Residence: 62 Valley Road Cinderford
Age_at_death: 94 years
Officiating_Minister: Eric G Pritchard Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: 17/55 written in margin
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/16
Page_No: 84
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: P625

Please can someone with Census access trace William's early roots, are they in Cirencester, perhaps in the nail-making trade ?
Thankyou.

SS Cyrene, Torpedoed at Sea off Wales, 5-4-1918 (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 23:10:39 +0000

Further web-searching "SS Cyrene" found this excellent Scarborough website giving more details of this sad night:

"The success of the convoy system in deep water had forced the U-Boats to hunt elsewhere; in the coastal waters around Britain and during the early months of 1918 the convoying had begun in the shallower sea-lanes around the coast. Nevertheless, despite these measures, midnight ships had still continued to be sunk by enemy submarines, albeit on a much larger scale. ‘The Scarborough Mercury’ of Friday the 12TH of April 1918 had reported;

‘Bad week for U-Boats - The return issued on Wednesday night by the Secretary of the Admiralty, for the week ending Saturday midnight, April 6TH, shows that the total arrivals and sailings were 5,029, an increase of 234 compared with the previous week. The total losses last week were 4 large and two small British merchant ships as against 5 large, and 6 small merchant ships and 6 fishing vessels in the previous week. The total arrivals and sailings is the largest in any week this year’…

One of the four large British merchant ships to be sunk that week had been a grubby 2,904 tons collier that had been carrying a cargo of Northumbrian coal from Newcastle to Blaye, a port located on the Gironde Estuary near Bordeaux, France. Built at Sunderland during 1888, the Steamship Cyrene, owned by William Coupland & Co., and commanded by Captain C.W. Lawrenson, had been steaming independently southwards at about five knots, and had been some fifteen miles to the north of Bardsay Island by the early hours of Friday the fifth of April when she had been spotted by Oberleutnant Kurt Siewert through the periscope of his coastal minelaying submarine, UC-31. Unfortunately the view that had confronted Siewert through the lense of his periscope is not recorded. The scene may have been the same as that recalled by another U-Boat captain during the same war;

‘The steamer appeared close to us and looked colossal. I saw the captain walking on his bridge, a small whistle in his mouth. I saw the crew cleaning the deck forward…stand by for firing a torpedo! I called down to the control room… Fire!. A slight tremor went through the boat—the torpedo had gone… The death bringing shot was a true one, and the torpedo ran towards the doomed ship at high speed. I could follow its course exactly by the light streak of bubbles which was left in its wake’..

I saw that the bubble track of the torpedo had been discovered on the bridge of the steamer, as frightened arms pointed towards the water…Then a frightful explosion followed, and we were all thrown against one another by the concussion, and then, like Vulcan, huge and majestic, a column of water two hundred metres high and fifty metres broad, terrible in its beauty and power, shot up to the heavens’…...

Carrying a full cargo of coal, and with her back broken, the Cyrene had begun to founder almost immediately. Nevertheless, despite the appalling list of the stricken ship one of the two lifeboats had been launched and a number of Cyrene’s crew had managed to get away before the vessel had sank, taking her captain and a number of crew members with her.

Having sank within sight of the Caenarfonshire coast, one may well have imagined the surviving members of the crew had made it to safety, this appears to have not been the case, and although the weather that cloudy and shower-filled day had been described as ‘mild with a ‘light to moderate south easterly wind of around force five or six’, all except three of the handful of survivors had perished that night. Obviously cold and wet as a result of the sinking one can only assume that the unfortunate men had died, like so many shipwrecked seamen, as a result of exposure to the elements. Twenty-four men including the Master died that night."

http://www.scarboroughsmaritimeheritage.org.uk/greatwar/s24-lost-at-sea-1918.php

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NB: In those days "large" ships was defined as "over 1,600 tons". I've sailed to France and Northern Spain many times and have occasionally suffered illness from "rough" summer seas. The worst was on a 9,000 ton car ferry in August c1992, being only a little bigger than the Cyrene it caught the waves even in the shallow seas off Dunkirk, not fun at all for the majority aboard. When I then consider that modern ferries on the more exposed routes to Western France similar to that of the Cyrene can still feel unpleasantly rough despite being fully-stabilised and upwards of 40,000 tons, then I can only admire and thank the tough bravery of such men as William Parsons. AND he was under the constant fear of attack from an unseen enemy !. I wonder why he was at sea, were his fore-fathers sailors ? Cinderford does (did?) have a "Soldiers & Sailors Club" but I'm not aware of any great naval heritage in the town. Searching Cyrene in the Welsh newspapers website gives several hits among the Ships Arrivals & Departures lists for Cardiff etc 20 odd years before she was lost; I guess she had always been a collier so it's not unlikely for a lad from a coalmining town within easy reach of the Welsh coal docks to eventually serve on such a coastal ship with no real pretentions of oceangoing seafaring.

There is also a page devoted to the Cyrene on this shipwreck site.
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?11546

More details about submarine UC-31 and it's War Service sinking 38 Allied ships are here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_UC-31
http://uboat.net/wwi/boats/?boat=UC+31

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If any readers are considering visiting the Tower of London, may I suggest they also visit the adjacent Trinity House Memorial which commemorates men and women of the Merchant Navy and Fishing Fleets lost in both World Wars with no known grave. During the First World War 3,305 merchant ships had been lost with a total of 17,000 lives, almost 12,000 of these are still at sea.

http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/british_cemeteries_memorials_ext/tower_hill_mem.htm

The above site reminds me to search the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website, under Navy not Merchant Service, which advises that Able Seaman William Parsons is commemorated on the Plymouth Naval Memorial in Devon.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3046554/PARSONS,%20WILLIAM%20HENRY

William Henry PARSONS, Lost at Sea during WWI. (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 05 Jun 2013 22:51:58 +0000

While searching for "Cinderford" items on an internet auction site I spotted the Medals of a brave Great War seaman who died at sea. Personally I find it very sad when such personal items are for sale so I don't collect them and hope they stay within his family; however I thought the story may be of interest.

The Medals are the British War Medal & the Victory medal inscribed with
"W Z 2966 W H Parsons AB RNVR"

This general search page for the National Archives is a good start and highly recommended for searching all sorts of people, not just military.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/default.htm
From this we can search the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve service records to find twelve different William Parsons served between 1903 and 1922.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?discoveryCustomSearch=true&...

Fortunately the Medal gives us his Service Number WZ/2966, alone probably not unique but with his name we can find this Medal Card and more helpful details:

Reference:ADM 337/87/481
Description:Name Parsons, William Henry
Service Number: Z/2966
RNVR Division: Wales
Date of Birth: 14 August 1886

For a small payment actual images & perhaps more records may be obtained, which would appear to be the case here, as the sales website helpfully advises William Parsons was lost on April 5th, 1918, while serving aboard the British steamer SS Cyrene.

For more general information about the Medals awarded to William and his shipmates see
http://www.1914-1918.net/grandad/themedals.htm

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R.I.P. Able Seaman William Henry Parsons.

"On all the oceans
White caps flow
You do not see crosses
Row on Row
But those who sleep
Beneath the sea
Rest in Peace,
For your country is free."