Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Henry Powell & Esther Beach (continued)

Henry Powell & Esther Beach (continued) (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 02:09:20 +0000

Hi again Matt,
just looked up the 1851 Census for the above, I think these are the relevant households for the people discussed, as per our emails good luck with your searches tonite and prob speak agin tomorrow.

1959 1851 CENSUS HO107/1959 FF.0117-0144 ED.3B NEWNHAM 1
Piece: 1959 Folio: 0134 Schedule: 091
Address: Lydbrook

POWELL John HD M 60 Labourer HEF Crow Hill (c1791)
POWELL Elizabeth WI M 60 Domestic Duties GLS Hail Burton [Aylburton] (c1791)
POWELL John SO U 18 Labourer GLS West Dean (c1833)
POWELL Henry SO U 11 Labourer GLS Ewesfield [Hewelsfield] (c1840)
WHITE Emma GD U 10 Attending School GLS Ewesfield [Hewelsfield] (c1841)

--------------

1959 1851 CENSUS HO107/1959 FF.0019-0050 ED.1 NEWNHAM 1

Piece: 1959 Folio: 0041 Schedule: 028
Address: Awre

POWELL Samuel HD M 61 Labourer GLS Newnham (c1790)
POWELL Mary WI M 59 - GLS Awre (c1792)
POWELL Elizabeth DA U 32 - GLS Awre (c1819)
POWELL Hester DA U 27 - GLS Awre (c1824)
POWELL Henry GS U 9 - GLS Awre (c1842)
POWELL Mary Ann GD - 3 - GLS Awre (c1848)
HELLARD William LG U 35 Ag Lab SOM Ash Britton[?] [Ashbrittle?] (c1816)
WATTS James LG U 23 Ag Lab GLS Bream (c1828)
MORE John LG U 22 Tailor GLS Mitchel Dean [Mitcheldean] (c1829)
POPE Alfred LG U 21 Tailor GLS Minchinhampton (c1830)

--------------

1959 1851 CENSUS HO107/1959 FF.0019-0050 ED.1 NEWNHAM 1
Piece: 1959 Folio: 0046 Schedule: 062
Address: Awre

POWELL James HD M 31 Laborer GLS Awre (c1820)
POWELL Caroline WI M 25 - GLS Stroud (c1826)
POWELL Henry SO - 7 - GLS Awre (c1844)
POWELL James SO - 5 - GLS Awre (c1846)
POWELL Samuel SO - 2 - GLS Awre (c1849)
POWELL Thomas SO - 3M - GLS Awre (c1850)
LEWIS Mary LG M 60 Pauper GLS Stroud (c1791)

--------------

2444 1851 CENSUS HO107/2444 FF.0226-0242 ED.5E COLEFORD 1
Piece: 2444 Folio: 0229 Schedule: 003
Address: Saunders Green

BURT Sarah HD W 59 Nurse GLS Westbury (c1792)
BURT Catherine DA U 21 - GLS West Dean (c1830)
BEACH William LG M 36 Coal Miner GLS West Dean (c1815)
BEACH Charlotte LG M 30 - GLS Westbury (c1821)
BEACH William LG - 2 - GLS West Dean (c1849)
BEACH Esther LG - 10M - GLS West Dean (c1850)

(NB Burt/Birt=Bird ??)

--------------

2444 1851 CENSUS HO107/2444 FF.0243-0262 ED.5F COLEFORD 1
Piece: 2444 Folio: 0253 Schedule: 056
Address: Dark Hill

POWELL Richard HD M 32 Coal Miner GLS West Dean (c1819)
POWELL Sarah WI M 36 - GLS Pa[rish of] Newland (c1815)
POWELL Richard SO - 11 - GLS West Dean (c1840)
POWELL Sarah A. DA - 9 - GLS West Dean (c1842)
POWELL Mary A. DA - 7 - GLS West Dean (c1844)
POWELL Henry SO - 4 - GLS West Dean (c1847)
POWELL Ruth DA - 1 - GLS West Dean (c1850)

For all the above, GS/GD = Grandson/Granddaughter, LG = Lodger etc

Hope this helps clear the Severnside mud, if I've missed anyone just ask,
J

Marriage for James Powell & Caroline Bird, Awre 1846 (reply)

Jefff — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 00:01:24 +0000

Crikey that was quick Matt !

Please see I've UPDATED my original post which may answer your query/doubt ?.

I edited the original post to reduce the overall post-count on the thread, it will automatically lock after 19, I didnt realise you'd reply so soon so sorry if makes awkward reading.

Jeff

Marriage for James Powell & Caroline Bird, Awre 1846 (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:56:30 +0000

Alright, found an old email from one of my relatives in Wales... this is what he had to say... looks like everything aligns with what you found...

From there I found the marriage certificate of the above Henry and Esther( Was Beach/Beech before she married) they married on the 21/6/1868 at West Dean, Gloucester. From it I found Henrys fathers name was John Powell.
In my hand written notes from this time I have made a record that John Powell, but using the name James Powell married a Caroline Bird in July I( believe)1846 the records are not clear.

I then found a birth registered at Westbury on Severn, Gloucester on the 15th August 1884 of a boy Henry, mothers name Caroline Bird. No father listed. Perhaps they where not married at Henrys birth.

I later found a birth certificate 24th August 1846 again registered at Westbury on Severn, Gloucester of a boy James .Father listed as James Powell mother listed as Caroline Powell formally Bird.

The above two births fall into place when I found the 1851 census that showed at Blackeney, Awre, Gloucester a family listed as

James Powell Father
Caroline Powell Mother
Henry Powell Son 7 yrs I believe this is our Henry that is the father of your Milson
James Powell Son 5 yrs
Samuel Powell Son 2 yrs
Thomas Powell Son 3 months

I'm not sure the email makes too much sense though... I don't understand why someone would switch between the names John and James and he mentions Henry's mother being Caroline Bird but then later mentions James (I'm assuming he's talking about Henry's father) and his mother being Caroline Bird? Any ideas?

Marriage for James Powell & Caroline Bird, Awre 1846 (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:50:42 +0000

Thanks Jeff! This looks about right. If that's the case my great-great-great? grandfather Henry would have been born two years prior. One of my relatives said that they think that this might have been the case (that James and Caroline weren't married at the time of Henry's birth). Let me dig up his old emails that he sent me and I can tell you more, but this definitely looks promising.

Marriage for James Powell & Caroline Bird, Awre 1846 (reply)

Jefff — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:46:46 +0000

Hi Matt,
wellpast midnite here in UK now so only the daftuns like me are still up I think !, but no doubt you'll get more help tomorrow.

Re the suggested Powell/Bird marriage I suspect this is it from this site's PR database ?. One of just TWO such name combinations within many thousands of Records on the database, and the dates & locality seem to be reasonable:

What do you think ???

Record ID 1161
Entry Number 93
Year 1846
Month Jul
Day 23
Grooms Surname POWELL
Grooms Forenames James
Grooms Age full age
Groom Condition Bachelor
Grooms Occupation Labourer
Grooms Residence Blakeney
Grooms Fathers Surname Powell
Grooms Fathers Forenames Samuel
Grooms Fathers Occupation Labourer
Brides Surname BIRD
Brides Forenames Caroline
Brides Age full age
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation
Brides Residence Blakeney
Brides Fathers Surname Bird
Brides Fathers Forenames Samuel
Brides Fathers Occupation Dier
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark He signs she marks
Witness 1 Thomas James
Witness 2 Elizabeth James
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister J. H. Malpas Vicar
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P30 IN 1/6
Page Number 47
Parish Chapel Awre

From GlosBMD site I find this Birth which seems to fit at first glance if spelling error made ?:

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
POWELL Henry POWELL POWELL BIRT 1846 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 4 243
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

=================

UPDATE !

HOWEVER also on GlosBMD is this marriage:

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
POWELL Richard BIRT Sarah Forest of Dean St Briavels St Mary the Virgin 1838 1 29

St Briavels is Monmouth,Coleford area, unlike Awre which I think would be Lydney/Chepstow ?

So maybe this whole suggestion is a red herring ??

atb Jeff

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:08:14 +0000

Thanks Paul! I'll check that one out. It sounds familiar... might have looked at it in the past.

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 23:07:40 +0000

Got any idea how I can do that? I have his death certificate on Ancestry.com

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:55:52 +0000

Obtaining the birth certificate should give the answer.

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:50:00 +0000

I know for a fact that Henry was born in 1844 and died in 1910 if that helps.

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:43:53 +0000

Yes it is possible that the wrong Henry has been chosen. I thought he may have been the one born in 1845 not 1840. Perhaps the 1845 birth certificate shows James Powell and Caroline Bird.

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:36:16 +0000

Did you happen to notice what the name of the public tree was?

Brett Family Tree. Owner: jelly121

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:32:30 +0000

Also, a lot of the trees I've seen have shown that Elizabeth White as John Powell's wife as you mentioned. However, I got in touch with one of my relatives living in Wales and he said that he believes that John maybe have actually been James Powell and married to a Caroline Bird. I don't know why he would have changed his name though? Any suggestions?

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

mpowell831 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:30:52 +0000

You guys are incredible. Did you happen to notice what the name of the public tree was? All of you guys have been extremely helpful. This site is great.

Birth records for Henry Powell & Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:28:30 +0000

There are Public Members Trees on Ancestry with these people. At least one shows the birth certificates for Henry and Esther. Henry was born 6 Oct 1840, Hewelsfield to John Powell and Elizabeth, formerly White. Esther was born 26 May 1850 to William Beach and Charlotte formerly Milling.

Birth record for Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:08:16 +0000

Unable to find a baptismal record for Esther on this site or IGI.

Possible birth record from FreeBMD:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1850 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beach Hester Monmouth 26 85

Birth record for Henry Powell (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:00:36 +0000

Unable to find a baptismal record for Henry on this site or IGI.

Possible birth record from FreeBMD:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1845 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
POWELL Henry Monmouth 26 84

The birth certificate would give the parents name.

Henry Powell and Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 21:22:19 +0000

1881 England Census
RG11/2522; Folio: 21; Page: 4
Aston Bridge
East Dean

Henry Powell - Head - Mar - 39 - Coal Miner - St Brivells, Glo'shire
Esther Powell - Wife - Mar - 34 - West Dean, Glo'shire
Harry Powell - Son - 12 - Scholar - East Dean, Glo'shire
William Powell - Son - 10 - Scholar - East Dean, Glo'shire
Milson Powell - Son - 9 - Scholar - East Dean, Glo'shire
Elizabeth Powell - Daur - 6 - Scholar - East Dean, Glo'shire
Thomas Powell - Son - 3 - Scholar - East Dean, Glo'shire
Albert Powell - Son - 2 Mo - East Dean, Glo'shire

1891 England Census
RG12/2004; Folio: 140; Page: 13
East Dean

Henry Powell - Head - M - 46 - Coal Miner - St Brevals, Glos
Esther Powell - Wife - M - 42 - Monmouth
Henry Powell - son - S - 22 - Coal Miner - Monmouth
Milson Powell - son - 19 - Coal Miner - Monmouth
Eliz Powell - daur - 16 - Monmouth
Thomas Powell - son - 13 - Scholar - Monmouth
Fred'k Powell - son - 10 - Scholar - East Dean
Clara Powell - daur - 8 - Scholar - East Dean
Ada Powell - daur - 6 - Scholar - East Dean
Lily Powell - daur - 3 - East Dean

Marriage of Henry Powell and Esther Beach (reply)

ChrisW — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:50:54 +0000

Darnit Paul! You beat me by one minute!

Henry Powell and Esther Beach (reply)

ChrisW — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:48:42 +0000

Hi Matt

I'm sure we would get lost in your neck of the woods as well!

Just for reference:

Record_ID: 14884
Entry_Number: 174
Year: 1868
Month: Jun
Day: 21
Grooms_Surname: POWELL
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age: 24
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Whitecroft
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Powell
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: BEACH
Brides_Forenames: Esther
Brides_Age: 20
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Whitecroft
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Beach
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both mark
Witness_1: mark of Mary Beach
Witness_2: Henry Gunter
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Jo[hn] Jo[seph] Elsworth incumbent
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P245 IN 1/21
Page_Number: 87
Parish_Chapel: Parkend
Soundex_Groom: P400
Soundex_Bride: B200

Marriage of Henry Powell and Esther Beach (reply)

Paul Andrews — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 19:47:22 +0000

Record ID 14884
Entry Number 174
Year 1868
Month Jun
Day 21
Grooms Surname POWELL
Grooms Forenames Henry
Grooms Age 24
Groom Condition Batchelor
Grooms Occupation Collier
Grooms Residence Whitecroft
Grooms Fathers Surname Powell
Grooms Fathers Forenames John
Grooms Fathers Occupation Labourer
Brides Surname BEACH
Brides Forenames Esther
Brides Age 20
Brides Condition Spinster
Brides Occupation [not stated]
Brides Residence Whitecroft
Brides Fathers Surname Beach
Brides Fathers Forenames William
Brides Fathers Occupation Labourer
Licence or Banns Banns
Date of Banns
Signature or Mark both mark
Witness 1 mark of Mary Beach
Witness 2 Henry Gunter
Other Witnesses
Officiating Minister Jo[hn] Jo[seph] Elsworth incumbent
Event Marriage
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P245 IN 1/21
Page Number 87
Parish Chapel Parkend

1871 England Census
RG10/5299; Folio: 35; Page: 23
Yorkley

Henry Powell - Head - Mar - Labourer - Gloshire, Woolaston
Esther Powell - Wife - Mar - 22 - Gloshire, Ruardean
Harry Powell - Son - 2 - Gloshire, Whitecroft
William Powell - Son - 9 Mo - Pillowell