Can anyone help by me. I would like to know more about a light aircraft that crashed during take off from a field near Wynols Hill House, Broadwell on 13 November 1918. Who was the pilot? and why was he there?

Apparently, there is a photograph of the crashed plane that names the policeman present as Sgt J. E, Bartlet. in a book called "Coleford : the History of a West Gloucestershire town".

Hi,
this intrigues me, but so far I've not found anything at all in any local and notsolocal newspapers from the BNA site. Perhaps the DF Mercury might have covered it, if you have access to their archives at Cinderford Library ?

I'm pretty sure Eastbach airstrip near Bicknor wasn't in use until long after WW2, so no relevance here.
I did find an August 1918 report in the Cheltenham Chronicle of a low-flying plane crashing into a house near Tetbury; the pilot, who's named, suffers a broken leg and arm.
Another report in the Gloster Echo, Nov 1918, mentions an Avro plane crashing near Cheltenham, due to engine trouble, but the two crew were not injured.

These reports leads me to wonder if the crash you mention was less severe, ie no injuries and more of a "routine" accident which were common in those days, especially during takeoff on rough fields, hence it never made the papers ?
I think you're suggesting the Broadwell crash wasn't a military plane, so perhaps less newsworthy?. But then again a private plane would be very rare indeed in 1918, wish I could see the photo. Can you clarify on this at all, hopefully someone has the book or photo and can confirm if the aircraft carries military or civil markings, any clues may help ?

Many thanks, Jeff.

ps The Gloster Citizen of Wednesday 5 December 1923 reported;

"Dean Forest Constabulary.
PRESENTATIONS TO EX-CONSTABLES. Recent resignations from the Forest Division of the Gloucestershire Constabulary were those of P.C. James Bartlett, Coleford,' and Henry Miles, of Littledean. The former has settled down at Perry Grove, near Monmouth, whilst the latter has crossed the Severn to Dursley district. At the monthly meeting of the Forest Force, Supt. Shelswell, on behalf of his men, asked ex-PC Bartlett to accept a valuable timepiece, and ex-P.C. Miles a gold chain & seal. The recipients made suitable acknowledgment."

pps IF the crash had been just six months later, then the following photo might have been a likely explanation. The Avro shown here was the standard basic trainer during WW1 and stayed in RAF service long afterwards. More were built during WW1 than any other type, hundreds of surplus RFC/RAF machines were bought for civil use after the war, it being easy to fly and could take passengers. The one plane alone in this example did thousands of joyrides during the year or two after mid 1919, the mid 1919 papers show adverts for it across northern England. Pilot Alan Cobham went on to become a very important pioneer of civil aviation across the world.
http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Bream-Forest-of-Dean/Bream-Avenue-plane.html
http://wantage-museum.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/The-Berkshire-Aviation-Co.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28gfuR1Qv1Q
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_504

Just to add, the aforementioned book is available in FoD public libraries, hopefully this link works. It was written by eminent FoD historian Cyril Hart OBE so is now on my must-read list, it's 573pages must make it the definitive history of Coleford !
Thanks Daffodil for the heads-up.

http://capitadiscovery.co.uk/gloslibraries/items/198891?query=cyril+hart&resultsUri...
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=18711

I've just spent an interesting (to me at least ! ...) hour or two researching what aerodromes and airfields there were near the Dean during WW1, on the assumption the Broadwell plane was probably a military one and probably from not too far away.
That said, wouldn't it be great if it had been built or flown by a Forester !

It seems that the vast majority of Gloucestershire military airfields only date back to WW2, with a profusion across the Severn but not on our side. It seems that WW1 flying in Glos' was largely around the Cirencester area, with training flights out of Aston Down (Michinhampton) airfield. The old newspapers report several fatal accidents from there (in the early years of the War it's thought as many fliers died while training as they did while fighting).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_Down

Similarly those military airfields that may have been active across the border were probably on the coast, to defend against fear of airship attacks?, near Cardiff and Swansea. Herefordshire airfields ie Credenhill is of WW2 origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_Royal_Air_Force_stations

The newly-formed Gloster Aircraft Company in Cheltenham were subcontract-building 45 Bristol F2b Fighters a week by mid 1918, these were taken by road to an Air Board Acceptance Park at Brockworth for final assembly and flight testing. These "Brisfits" were designed by the very important and much larger Bristol Aeroplane Company at Filton, they'd been supplying huge numbers of RFC aircraft since their inception into Service c1911.
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Gloster_Aircraft_Co
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Aeroplane_Company

Some new aircraft for the Western Front were flown across the Channel to France (summer weather permitting) rather than by ship in crates, but how they all got across England to airfields such as Lympne near Folkestone I don't know, altho some were definitely taken by rail in crates. However that doesn't explain why a plane from say Brockworth would be over the Forest. British RFC/RAF aeroplanes saw service in the Middle East, maybe via Bristol or even Cardiff docks, they presumably arrived there by rail already crated for shipping ?

My guess is the incident at Broadwell was a plane enroute from Brockworth to Cardiff, or more likely Filton; probably forced to land due to mechanical problems or bad weather, while following the Severn or GWR lines as was normal practice. I don't know for sure but I doubt those training at Aston Down etc would have crossed the Severn, they would generally stay much nearer their home field.

Now for someone to, hopefully, post what aircraft type it was, please. Even if my guesswork is proven wrong, I'm always happy to be corrected in search of the facts.
J

If the aircraft wasn't a military one, then it's likely that the owner was very wealthy, and probably has interests in engines, motorcars, and suchlike.
I knew there was a connection between Monmouth and Charles Rolls of Rolls-Royce cars fame, but have never studied his life, despite being keenly-interested in the superb RR aero engines his firm produced c1930 and afterwards. I now know that he was a keen enthusiast of early aviation, not at all surprising given his technical and wealthy background, especially in Edwardian times. I therefore wondered if the aeroplane that crashed at Wynol's Hill was on it's way to or from the Rolls ancestral home at The Hendre, Monmouth ?.

However, Charles Rolls had died long before the crash, in 1911. He has the sad distinction of being the first Briton killed in an aeroplane accident, during a display near Bournemouth, aged just 32. While studying mechanical engineering at Cambridge he'd travelled to Paris in 1896 to buy his first car, a Peugeot, one of the first three cars in Wales. At that time France were world-leaders in car technology, as she would be in aircraft a decade later. As well as creating motor cars with Henry Royce, Charles Rolls became interested in aviation, initially ballooning, making over 170 balloon ascents. He regularly hosted balloon events at Monmouth, see this family photograph by his balloon in 1906, the balloon is not a "modern" hot-air type, but gas-filled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ballooning_at_Monmouth_Gasworks.jpg

Flight Magazine of January 1909 reports a flight from Monmouth:
"Ballooning Home. On Saturday last the Hon. C. S. Rolls gave an exhibition of the possibilities of ballooning by taking his mother, Lady Llangattock, home by balloon. The ascent was made at Monmouth in the balloon " Mercury," the occupants of the basket being Lady Llangattock, Hon. C. S. Rolls, Hon. Mrs. Assheton – Harbord, Mr. Claud Crompton, and Mr. Charles Freeman, and the balloon landed on the lawn in front of Lord Llangattock's house, The Hendre."

Charles Rolls was a founding member of the Royal Aero Club in 1903 and was the second British person the Club licensed to fly. By 1907 his focus turned increasingly from cars to flying, he tried unsuccessfully to persuade Royce to design an aero engine. In 1909 he bought a Wright Flyer, an improved development of the world's first successful aeroplane of 1903, he made more than 200 flights. In 1910 he became the first man to make a non-stop double crossing of the English Channel by plane.

Sadly, soon after Charles was killed, the Rolls family name would die out. Charles' father 1st Baron Llangattock passed away in 1912. His older brothers both died in 1916, John from wounds on the Somme, Henry from illness. This left only mother Georgiana and sister Eleanor to see the end of WW1 hence the year of the aeroplane crash. So would they have entertained a visitor by aeroplane in 1918 ???. Mother Georgiana passed away in 1923 in their other home, in London, aged 86. However she may-well have been an aeroplane enthusiast - she was aged 72 when taking the aforementioned flight in 1906 !. Sister Eleanor also died in London, in 1961. At some point after 1916, and the end of the male Rolls line, The Hendre passed back up to the Harding-Rolls family who lived there until 1984.

So it rather seems that the Broadwell aeroplane was probably not enroute to visit the Rolls family, ah well...

Excellent articles about Charles Rolls here,
http://www.monnowvoice.co.uk/charles-stewart-rolls-1877-1910/
http://www.earlyaviators.com/erolls.htm

The Rolls family of Llangattock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rolls,_1st_Baron_Llangattock
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hendre

The 1891 Census for The Hendre, Monmouthshire, shows;

Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country
John A Rolls Esq. Head(Independant gentleman) 54 1837 Male Llangattock Monmouthshire Wales
Gorgiana M Rolls Esq. Wife 53 1838 Female Kirkby O Blow Yorkshire England
John M Rolls Esq. Son 20 1871 Male Mayfair London England
Eleanor G Rolls Esq. Daughter 18 1873 Female Mayfair London England
Charles S Rolls Esq. Son 13 1878 Male Mayfair London England

Plus a further 21 staff including these Foresters,
George Wicks Servant 24 1867 Male Mathern Monmouthshire Wales
Henry Polly Servant 25 1866 Male Clearwell Gloucestershire England
Sarah Lewis Servant 20 1871 Female Ruardean Gloucestershire England
Louisa Long Servant 21 1870 Female Llanvihangel Yestern Lawerne Monmouthshire Wales
Matilda Ruck Servant 18 1873 Female Rockfield Monmouthshire Wales

Struggling to find the family in later census' !!?, altho are mentioned in the
Kelly's Directory of Monmouthshire,1901, for LLANVIHANGEL-YSTERN-LLEWERN
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~familyalbum/kangtern.htm

Many thanks for your help and enthusiastic research. Great minds etc....

Yesterday, I visited Cinderford library and borrowed the book. The following extract solves the mystery for me, but might send you off on hours more enthusiast research.

'...... .Towards the foot of Gloucester Road stood Jewell's Cycle shop (shareholders in it included Sydney Hone, and Frank Joynes - earlier an instructor in the Royal Flying Corps, and who, incidentally, on 13 November 1918 crashed on take-off a light DH 9 plane (Pl. 35b), in a field north of Wynols Hill House after visiting there his father-in-law, Amos Brown). '

Hart, Cyril - Coleford: The History of a West Gloucestershire Forest Town, 1983. Chpt 14, pp, 399.

I have copied (Pl.35b) which has be acknowledged to Michael Rees in the book, for my personal use, but as the book is copyright I'm unsure about uploading it to this site. Please advise about this.

On the same page as referenced above is some further information about Sgt. J. E. Bartlett.

'The local motor cycle speed trials, held during the late 1910s and early 1920s up the Long Hill (between Mireystock and Worrall Hill) and up the Speech House Hill, attracted many enthusiastic riders from a wide area. Reg Bartlett of Coleford was always a keen competitor. (He was the son of Police Sergeant Bartlett whose wife and daughter Maudie ran a small general stores at the junction of the roads at High Nash.)'

Incidentally, Amos Brown is a 2nd great-great uncle of my husband. I first came across this story in relation to Amos Ellis (a nephew of Amos Brown), but the information I had did not make sense to me.

As a footnote to the above aeroplane crash, my husband remembers, when he was a little boy his grandfather (Tom Burford) telling him that a "Mr Joynes" had or flew an aeroplane named "Wandering Jew". Whether or not this story is about the Frank Henry Joynes of the crash or his son Frank John Joynes is unknown, or if his grandfather was just telling his little grandson a "story" - my husband had no idea that there might be a family connection until I started digging and he remembered this tale.

The pilot would have been Frank Henry Joynes from Cannop, born about 1894. He married on 21 June 1916, Mary Isabel Brown, daughter of Amos William Brown, at Coleford. The marriage is in the parish records on this site.
He was gazetted 2nd Lt. in the Royal Flying Corps on 7 February 1918. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30526/supplement/2044
He was transferred to the R.A.F. unemployed list on 17 April 1919.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31489/page/9963
His service record is on findmypast. His address in this record was Prosper Villa, Coalway Lane End, Coleford.

What a great site this is, there is always someone who can help. Mary Isabel Brown is a X3 1st cousin of my husband. Do you have any more information about descendants of Mary and Frank? I would love to know more about them.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply with this information, I will follow up your findmypast link right away.

They had two sons:-
Frank John Joynes born 1918 Q2, birth registered in the Monmouth Registration District vol. 11A page 42
Robert Joynes born 1923 Q3, birth registered in the Monmouth Registration District vol. 11A page 42
Their baptism records are in parish records on this site.
Frank John Joynes died 1998 in the Cardiff District.
Robert Joynes, no further trace.

Edit:
Frank John Joynes married in 1939 Beryl Edith Addis at St. John's Church, Cinderford. See parish records on this site.
Robert Joynes married in 1951 Muriel J. Edwards in the Forest of Dean Registration District.

Free BMD gives four children registered in Monmouth District with surname JOYNES and mother’s former name BROWN:-

1918 Frank John
1920 Zena Victoria Mary
1922 Wilfred
1923 Robert

Their baptisms are all on this site although Zena is called Lena from this source. Both she and Frank were baptised on the same day in 1920.

The Gloucester Journal of Saturday 16 August 1919 reported that Mary Isobel JOYNES was granted a separation order from Frank Henry JOYNES, engineer, Broadwell Lane End, defendant to contribute 25s weekly towards the maintenance of his wife who was given custody of the one child of the marriage. Clearly there must have been a reconciliation fairly soon afterwards.

But, tragically, this:-

Record_ID: 170852
Entry_Number: 2700
Year: 1922
Month: Mar
Day: 13
Surname: JOYNES
Forenames: Wilfred
Residence: Son of Frank Joynes
Age_at_death: 2_ days
Officiating_Minister: E H Brice
Event: Interment
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: (1) Prosper Coalway (2) [not stated] (3) aa 4 (4) Consecrated (5) West Dean
Notes:
Register_Reference: DA25 / 204 / 30
Page_No: 34
Parish_Chapel: Coleford Cemetery

Thanks again Harry.
How sad that Frank Henry Joynes died in 1923 - his burial is on this site. Mary and Frank had 4 children it seems, all 4 baptisms are on this site. The additions to yours are Zena Victora Mary Joynes, on this site as Lena and Wilfred Joynes.

Also, I've found a 1969 death registration for Mary Isabel Joynes n. Brown (Q4 1969 Glamorgan, Glamorganshire).

Thanks Mike.
I think you are ahead of me - see my previous reply to Harry. How sad this all is. Although this family is very distantly related to my husband, I can't help but to look further into any interesting stories that I come across when researching our families history. Having read Frank Henry's military records (see previous thread) it is beginning to look like the crash may have been the start of a lot of troubles for the family.

I've found a marriage for Zena in 1946, Westminster, London to Joseph O'Sullivan. Also I've found some information on a photo posted on Ancestry that states Zena was bought up by her grandparents Amos and Mary Ann Brown.

Hi again Daffodil, how great it is to read this thread again after my long break from this great forum, this was the last thread I worked on and a favourite subject of mine, old aeroplanes. I'm really pleased you've found out so much more information, how special to have a WW1 flier in your family tree !! Also nice to see I wasn't too far off the mark with my attempts to identify the origins of the mystery aircraft.

I suspect you may know of this public tree on Ancestry for Frank Joynes, which helpfully displays the photo of the crashed plane. What a crash it was !, Frank was lucky to escape with his life I think. Hopefully this link to the tree and photo will work for all users, not just Ancestry subscribers ?
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/79014485/person/40393673151
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/79014485/person/40393673151/media/15fd140a-70b2-4f35-b...

It's hard to see what's left of the plane after it clearly flipped onto it's back. I assume the photo was taken after the Ground crew "erks" had started recovering it for possible repair/salvage, judging by a complete lack of main wings and possibly engine too (or is it below the inverted undercarriage ? - more likely it was probably torn off during the crash and has already been removed. It's odd that the rear fuselage is uncovered, it should be fabric-covered, but if it caught fire surely the wooden framework would have gone-up too ?. Ah well, main thing is Frank survived to tell the tale, which may have been a tricky one to tell in front of his C.O. !
Perhaps hard to believe nowadays but in it's day the D.H.9 wasn't a "light" aircraft as the book suggests, but an advanced 2 seat bomber, typical of late WW1 design practice. The Nine initially struggled with it's poor engine, which might explain the crash on take-off, always a critical time especially on a rough field. It seems odd to think that such a poor type would be used for Instructing, but the RAF was cash-strapped after the war and had to make-do. Hopefully it was the squadron "hack", for experienced pilots only ?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/De_Havilland_Airco_DH9_REJS.jpg

Finally, altho you wern't involved at the time, I suspect you know that Frank Jaynes and Amos Brown are mentioned within this thread about Broadwell Memorial hall, they were Trustees.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=43352

Thanks again for an interesting query,
atb J

PS Thanks Harry Brook for looking-up Frank's Service Records. Harry, do you recall if they give any clues as to where he had flown the aircraft from, such as naming the Squadron or Training Unit he was serving with at the time, please ?. Thanks.

Hi Jeff
Nice to see you back. I had noticed you had been missing for a while.
Sheila

Jeff
Many thanks for alerting me to your post; and may I say it's nice to see you back. I have been researching my own non-forester family of late hence my absense.
Regards
Daffodil