Hi I am looking for information on the family of Emily Roberts & Thomas Harley. Emily b) 1890 in East Dean & d) 1980, was the Aunty of my Grandad Len Roberts & kept in touch with him & his Wife Doris here in West Yorkshire. At some time Emily & Thomas lived on Leonard Street, Fleur-de-lis. I only know of 1 son Ron Harley b) 1935 Bedwelty.
There were stories passed down of Emily losing most of their family in very tragic cercumstances & i'm trying to find out if there is any truth in these stories.
1) Some were said to have died in a house fire
2) she had another son (i dont know the name) who was possibly killed by the local school caretaker, who also killed another pupil & his own Wife. I believe at the time they lived on Leonard Street.
3) she also lost some family in the Aberfan disaster.
I have been trying for some time to research this but without success. Does anyone know the family or have heard of these stories, or where i can find out more.
Many thanks
Tracy

Good evening Tracy and a warm welcome to the forum. My what a terribly sad story !. My first thought is the best method of researching these stories would be looking in the old newspapers on the BNA website, have you tried this at all ?

Re Aberfan, near Fleur de Lis of course, I imagine all the names and possibly even family backgrounds of those losses are fully documented, perhaps even in published books or dedicated websites, have you tried this route to look for similar surnames etc ?. But then again, which names, Roberts ?..

Please do you have any more information about Emily ?.

Am I correct when guessing you have her "1890 East Dean" birth details from a Census form ?. Asking as I believe East Dean was usually only used on official Census forms and not other records. East Dean implies she was born in Cinderford or the surrounding area, including Drybrook and neighbouring Ruardean Hill, which are both Roberts strongholds astwere. (oops, sorry, this is in your title..).
So, if you know Ruardean, is there anything else you know ?. I'm asking as I've searched but cannot find a single Emily Roberts born in 1890, yet there are quite a few who were born around that time.
Here's 2 examples just from this site's PRs;

Record_ID: 167206
Entry_Number: 615
Year: 1887
Month: Mar
Day: 27
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: Emily
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Annie
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: East Dean
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: G Holmes
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: B C Chapel Cinderford
Notes:
Register_Reference: D2598 5/5
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Forest of Dean Bible Christian
Soundex: R163

Or maybe ?

Record_ID: 473345
Entry_Number: 502
Year: 1894
Month: Jan
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: ROBERTS
Child_Forenames: Emily Jane
Fathers_Forenames: Aaron
Mothers_Forenames: Mary
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: The Purlow Ruardean
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: William Robinson
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 63
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: R163

Luckily I know this Emily can be discounted, she is my brother-in-law's paternal Grandmother.

This DID seem a perfect fit, Woodside being an early name for Cinderford, my home town and St Stephens is my home church, but see the memoranda note...

Record_ID 89390
Entry_Number 391
Year 1888
Month Nov
Day 7
Parents_Surname ROBERTS
Child_Forenames Emily
Fathers_Forenames George
Mothers_Forenames Mary Ann
Mothers_Surname
Residence Woodside
Occupation Collier
Officiating_Minister C. W. Houlston
Event Baptism
Memoranda Born Dec 21 1873
Notes
Register_Reference P85/2IN 1/1
Page_Number 49
Parish_Chapel Cinderford St Stephen
Soundex R163

Unfortunately this still leaves several other possibles, for example the GlosBMD site has;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
ROBERTS Emily CLUTTERBUCK 1888 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 57 489
ROBERTS Emily BEARD 1887 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 55 478
ROBERTS Emily BIDMEAD 1889 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 59 369
ROBERTS Emily ASTON 1889 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 46 347
ROBERTS Emily Louisa 1888 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 57 376
ROBERTS Martha Emily BOWEN 1893 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 50 180

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MainMenu.aspx

"East Dean" births may have been registered at Westbury, Monmouth or even Ross on Wye. In fact I know some Ruardean Hill ROBERTS in my tree who were registered under Ross in Herefordshire, so not listed by GlosBMD site. These were in more recent times, as they worked that side of the Forest, could one of these be our Emily ?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1885 (>99%)
Roberts Emily Jane Ross 6a 490

Births Sep 1890 (>99%)
Roberts Emily Elizabeth Ross 6a 450

????

So only found ONE Emily born IN 1890, and hence this, which is close but ???

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
FURNIVAL Thomas Bedwellty 11a 244
MOON Mary Bedwellty 11a 244
MOSES John Bedwellty 11a 244
ROBERTS Emily Elizabeth Bedwelty 11a 244

However the 1911 Census shows Thomas married Mary Moon, so not our man, so presumably not our Emily either...

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Moving on, I'm struggling to find a Marriage Record for Emily and Thos Harley. FreeBMD has excellent coverage for this area and Monmouthshire, which seems a good starting point given your mention of Ron born Bedwelty c1935. Do you have a Marriage record please ?.

By the way, could this be another child ?

FreeBMD has;
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1934 (>99%)
Harley Gilbert F Roberts Bedwelty 11a 187

Births Dec 1935 (>99%)
Harley Ronald A C Roberts Bedwellty 11a 179

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

So Tracy, this is a difficult enquiry. Before we spend much more time & perhaps following the wrong trail, or duplicating your own research, please if you have ANY more info at all, can you post it ? This will help us to help you.

Thanks, Jeff.

There's a list of those who died at Aberfan at https://www.aberfan-remembered.net/people-who-died/

This looks like the family from the 1939 register, located in Leonard Street. No sign of a Thomas though unless 'John T' is Thomas.

Emily Harley 1892 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
Gilbert F Harley 1934 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
John T Harley 1890 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
John T Harley 1919 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
Ronald A Harley 1935 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
Phyllis Adams (Harley) 1921 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
Evelyn S Price (Harley) 1924 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales
Rosina G Price (Harley) 1927 Bedwellty U.D. Monmouthshire Wales

Freebmd

Birth: September Qtr 1919

District: Pontypridd

Thomas J HARLEY, mother's maiden name : ROBERTS, Vol 11a : Page 1055

There are a couple of other HARLEY/ROBERTS births registered in Pontypridd (Mary M 1920 and Phyllis D - 1922) and others a bit later on in Beldwelty

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? there is a death registration: for a Thomas J HARLEY, date of birth: 30 July 1919 - died in 1967 in Glamorgan

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Probate

HARLEY, Thomas John of 3 Leonard Street, Fleu-de-lis near Pegam, Monmouthshire
died 18 August 1958 at Woolaston House, Newport, Monmouthshire
Administration: Llandaff, 15 May to Emily Elizabeth HARLEY, Widow
Effects: £ 892.5s. 1d. (born c 1890)

Emily Elizabeth HARLEY, 3 Leonard Street, Fleur-de-Lis, Gwent
Died: 25 March 1980

Probate: Llandaff. 2 May

£5,160

This information has just been passed to me by a fellow Contributor.

Freebmd

Marriage Sept Qtr 1922: Merthyr Tydfil

Thomas J HARLEY

Emily E MOSES (so Emily Elizabeth appears to have been married to John MOSES)

Freebmd

Dec Qtr 1908

Bedwelty

Emily Elizabeth ROBERTS - John MOSES

1911 Census

14 pen-y Bryn Terrace
Pontllanfraith
Monmouthshire

MOSES

John - 23 - married 3 years, two children - aged 23, born Aberamon

Emily - 21 - born Cinderford

Gertie May - 2 - born Monmouthshire
Thomas John - under 1 month

There is a Private Tree on Ancestry - but the Contributer can be contacted with MOSES/ROBERTS

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There is on Ancestry - and will read

British Army WW1 Service Records 1914-1920

Name: Getrude May MOSES ***

Birth Date: 24 October 1908
Birth place: Pennylryn

Document Year: 1918

103 Gellygaer Road, Garden City, Hengoed

John MOSES - Monmouthshire Regiment -
Emily Elizebeth ROBERTS Spouses

other children

Thomas JOHN - age 7 - born 24 March 1911 *****
Ever Lilian - age 4 - born 8 September 1914
Emily Elizebeth - aged 2 (born 6 August 1916, Castleford, Yorkshire) *******
William George - 1907 (born 12 July 1907) - crossed out, born before marriage.
Albert Moris - 1918 (born 8 January 1918) (? death registered age : 0 June Qtr 1918)

John MOSES records are from January 1918

____

?

re: Gertrude May MOSES

There is a marriage AMJ Qtr 1936 at Bedwelty to a John I BARBERO (This is John Victor Barbero) -
Death gives Gertrude May birth date as 12 October 1909 (died December 1976)

but the 1939 census (don't have full access) gives her year of birth as 1908

----

*****
Thomas John MOSES (who died in 1974 - some information on Family Tree Ancestry, he married Sarah Ann POWELL and gives the correct birth date and place : 24 March 1911

----

*******

?

There is a death registered: June Qtr 1932 of Emily E MOSES aged 15

and death of

John MOSES aged 34, June Qtr 1922, Merthyr Tydfil 11a 675

There's a list of those who died at Aberfan at https://www.aberfan-remembered.net/people-who-died/

Hi PR,
thanks for this, and so drawing my attention to the fact I clearly didn't post all I thought I had last night. I don't understand what happened, I saw this impressive site last night and definitely posted a link to it into my original post. On returning to the forum today I now see my post is "locked", which sometimes happens if too many links are posted, or too often, in one hit. I know I did keep adding to my post last night while researching, and every time tried to be extra careful to not upset the spam rules etc, and genuinely thought I had managed to post all I wanted to without any hint of trouble. All the time I was compliling my post offline on a word-doc, as I know sometimes the forum input screens can inadvertantly lose one's text and possobly "live" research data. When I finished posting last night I had no idea the post was "locked", if I had I'd have reported same to Admin. My post was lengthy, but it appeared to be accepted by the forum site, and I finished believing I'd done a decent job. I also, perhaps foolishly, then deleted my word document as believed I no longer needed the safety backup.

Now it seems my post doesn't contain all I thought it did, and I really cannot understand why, all very odd and very frustrating.

Apologies to Admin, and anyone else affected by this unfortunate and regrettable situation.

Hi MPG, thanks so much for posting this info.

I am very annoyed with myself for not following-up more vigorously the Emily Eliza Roberts to John Moses marriage in Bedwelty I found and posted last night. I then compounded this error by accidentally breaking the forum and got my post locked without realising it until today.
I am clearly losing whatever skill I once had for this research, apologies again !
Regards Jeff

PS You mention public trees on Ancestry. If you read this and can afford the time, I would be very grateful if you could please consider looking at this recent post as I feel sure you can achieve what I cannot, and so help Pauline and her SAUNDERS family find all her WW1 soldiers' graves when they visit France in the next week or two.
Thankyou.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=49443

Many thanks for all your info given. Got a lot to work through.
Jeff you asked for more info, here's what i have:

Emily Elizabeth Roberts b) 28/07/1890 east dean d) 1980 Newport district.. possibly the 6th child of Thomas Roberts b) 1851 & Emily Gladwin. b) c1854.
Emily was married to Thomas Harley & i have a son Ron A. C. Harley b) 9/11/1935 Bedwelty
d) 1988 Newport District.

Last night i was looking through some photos my mam gave me of Leonard St & Francis St, Fleur-de-lis. Among them were some scraps of paper with the following written:

2 little girls called Harley, were burnt to death in an house fire on Francis st, possibly 1975. The grandfather of the 2 girls was a Reg Holdridge who used to live on Leonard st.

There was a Gilbert & Ronnie Harley who lived on Leonard st.

There was a lady mentioned called Halton who was a caretaker. She moved to London but was murdered in London whilst posting a letter back home. She had a sister called Alice.

One scrap had on it 'Harley Emily caretaker murdered'???

& one had: 25 or 26 march 1909 Edward George Leonard Roberts.....Ginny Roberts....Leonard St., burnt in fire half of family .???
This one is confusing as my grandad is Leonard Edward George Roberts b) 25/03/1911 in Castleford, west yorkshire (He is the son of Leonard Eli Roberts b) 1884 East dean who moved to castleford with his wife Selina Jane (nee) Hart b) 1883) also Selina used to be known as 'Ginny'.

This is getting more & more confusing or interesting, think i need to hone into my inner Miss Marples.
Thankyou for your help
Tracy x

Hi thankyou for this list of people.
I wasn't sure about the amount of children given for Emily, but today my mam gave me some photo's Emily sent to my granny years ago. Unfortunatly no names or dates are given on the backs only info such as 'this is one of my daughters' or 'this is my son' ect..
but there are 3 wedding photos of 3 of her daughters, & one of a double wedding of 2 of her daughters (giving us 5). there is one that says its her son Ron's wedding, one of her grandaughter's wedding, one of herself with 3 of her daughter's & a grandaughter. & one that says 'this is my son that died & my step daughter & her husband' which does hint that her marriage to Thomas Harley is infact her 2nd.
again thankyou for all your info
Tracy x

?

Don't subscribe to Find my Past which has the 1939 Register - but can see

Bedwelty U.D. Monmouthshire, Wales

Reginald E OLDRIDGE - birth year 1913 - died 1985 *married Irene PARSONS, 1942

Albert E OLDRIDGE - birth year 1885 - *married Margaret Elizabeth MOULE, April 1913, Pontypridd, Wales
Margaret E OLDRIDGE - birth year 1888
Doris M DAVIES (OLDRIDGE) - birth year 1925
Margaret E Jacqueline (OLDRIDGE) - 1916

5 more people who are officially closed

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* information on

OLDRIDGE tree on Family Tree Ancestry