Romany Gipsy HARRIS' from Forest of Dean (General)

by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, April 12, 2016, 17:28 (3221 days ago) @ mehaines82

Hi Catherine, do hope were both looking at the same family, here's a brief run down of the census records of the family as you can see James is mentioned on 1841 and 1851.

1841- Gospel Oak - Tipton - Staffordshire

John 30 (1811) Unknown Pingler of Iron
Elizabeth 30 (1811) Unkown
Ann 8 (1833) Unknown
George 6 (1835) Unknown
James 3 (1838) Staffordshire
Mary 11Mths (1840) Staffordshire

Hi all,
yesterday I tried, and sadly failed, to add to your knowledge of James and his parents. There does seem to be a distinct lack of hard evidence of the line before 1841, such as baptisms etc, which maybe suggests they were travellers, or at least not Church-goers. That said, it doesn't help that John & Elizabeth Harris are very "common" names, as I found when trying to find a possible marriage for them in the FoD area PRs.
I see you've posted a different 1841 Census record than Slowhands did on his earlier post, your's certainly looks to be the correct one, helped by the databases being more accessible these days. I have a great interest in engineering so just had to look-up the Census form image given John's intriguing if not unlikely occupation of "pingler". Sadly, not unusually it's an incorrect transcription, as you probably know. To me it looks like "shingler of iron". This term was new to me so thanks for introducing me to what may be a local Staffordshire term, a Shingler was apparently "a man who worked alongside an Iron Puddler, manipulating puddled balls of iron on an anvil".
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html

I already knew the more commonly recorded job of "iron puddler", a detailed definition of that may be safely downloaded from this link, which also mentions the job of "shindling" which is presumably derived from "shingling".
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/i-k.html#iron_puddler

That 1841 Census form is a revelation to me, as in my usual researches they are not too informative, and usually a list of "ag labs" etc which I'm afraid I find a little boring. However this one is quite literally describing a hot-bed of engineering, with many other households in the iron-making trade, plus it includes the helpful "extra" address information. Of particular interest is the nearby home of Gospel Oak House, home of "ironmasters" John, Edward and Charles Walker, brothers I guess, which is most-probably where James worked. A quick google finds the Walkers are of Scottish origin, their Gospel Oak works were a significant concern in the mid 1800s, their structural steel was used in many of London's buildings, docks and bridges, plus they manufactured cannon and cannon balls;

"Samuel Walker, of Aldwark Hall, grandson of the original Samuel Walker, with his cousin William Yates, purchased the Gospel Oak Iron Works, Tipton and in 1822 removed the models and machinery for making cannon from the Holmes (and possibly Conisbrough which closed in 1821) to Gospel Oak Works in Staffordshire which they had purchased in 1817. In 1848 the works owned by John and Edward Walker, '...the manufacture of iron and tinplates is largely carried on; and adjacent is a foundry in which bridges, immense quantities of cannon, etc, are made. These works together employ 350 persons, and the wrought-iron cannon produced in the establishment have been brought to such perfection as probably to supersede brass cannon, from their possessing more tenacity, when hot, than those of brass, and not being heavier, a great desideratum with artillery-men...'
Source: A Topographical Dictionary of England." (1848).

see http://www.rotherhamweb.co.uk/h/122.htm
and also http://www.blackcountrymuse.com/apps/forums/topics/show/6667864
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/J._and_E._Walker

By coincidence Naval history and technology is another interest of mine, so it's particularly pleasing and interesting to see that your ancestor James Harris was making cannon balls for the same ships that had been built with Dean Forest oak for centuries. As much as I do admire my hardworking mining and farming ancestors, I'm a little envious of your engineering ones !.
Thanks for your interesting post.

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PS I see this Census form introduces first child Ann born abt 1833. I'd hoped finding her baptism would give clues to her parents background, however she doesn't seem to appear in the FoD PRs. Do you have any further information about her, please ?. I cannot find her for certain in the 1851 Census, there's a few Ann Harris' in the Staffs area by then, plus many more Mary Ann & Elizabeth Ann Harris'. Also she could have married by 1851, altho again I'm struggling to find a definite Marriage for her, anywhere.
??