Albert John COOPER (1895 - 1951) (General)

by Raging Jester @, Monday, February 20, 2017, 19:07 (2843 days ago)

I'm trying to hunt down my Great Grand Fathers millitary records. The issue is I haven't got a clue what regiment he served in during the first world war.

His name was Albert John Cooper, born 19 May 1895 to Eliza Malson & Thomas Cooper.

He was half brother to Conrad Malson and Cousin of Christopher Malson who both died during the first world war. There is a vast wealth of information regarding the Malson side of the family, however I seem to struggle with the Cooper's.

I believe Albert lived in Mitcheldean before the war broke out and at some point after the war he moved to Abertillery where he married my Great Grand Mother Maud Francis.

The family story goes he was injured during the war, possibly had shrapnel on the lung but this is as far as our family knowledge of his milltary service goes.

I've tried the Gloucester Regiment Museum as a start, however as their curator has left they are currently unable to help me in my search.

I would be greatly appreciative of any other information, Stories or photographs that people may have about the Cooper's.

Thanks

Alex

Albert John COOPER (1895 - 1951)

by MPGriffiths @, Monday, February 20, 2017, 19:49 (2843 days ago) @ Raging Jester

Ancestry is still free until the end of today - but searching for Albert John COOPER/Albert COOPER in the Military records turns up so many options it is difficult to see if anyone is correct.

As Albert John COOPER married June Qtr 1920 in Bedwelty, Blaenan Gwent to Maud FRANCIS - this Albert John COOPER records is for the Welsh Regiment

Albert John COOPER - UK, WW1 Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920

Name: Albert John COOPER
Military Year: 1914-1920
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment of Corps: Welsh Regiment
Regimental Number: 32587

32587 : 16th Welch R Pte

32587 : Att 151 Coy RE
Welch R. Infantry Base
Depot, 32587. 17th Welch R.

32587. Welch R. Infantry
Base Depot, 32587. 17th Welch R.,
32587. 17th Welch
R., 32587. Att 9th Ent Bn. Att
R.N.D. , 32587. Welch R
Infantry Base Depot. 32587
13th Welch R.

(also WW1 Medal Roll Index Cards 1914-1920 : Regimental Number: 32587 - shows Theatre of War France : 4 December 1915)

Albert John COOPER (1895 - 1951)

by Raging Jester @, Monday, February 20, 2017, 20:09 (2843 days ago) @ MPGriffiths

Hi MPGriffiths,

I've searched on Ancestry and others for Albert, and like you said, there is loads of Albert John Coopers and nothing points out that it's the correct Albert John Cooper for me.

I've found a Electral Register indicating that he was still living in Mitcheldean (Millend Street) with his brother Thomas Cooper in 1919.

Albert John COOPER (1895 - 1951)

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 05:00 (2841 days ago) @ Raging Jester

Hi Alex,
I expect you've already seen this prior post which mentions all the men you mention, including Albert in the Census's, but I thought I'd best mention it just in case.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=45627

Unfortunately it doesn't mention the WW1 service of Albert Cooper. However it does help illustrate that men from the Forest often joined the Welsh Regiments, and not always the Glosters as I for one assumed when I started my FH researches a few years back. I guess this is part because the Glosters' main regimental HQ depot was in Bristol, not Gloucester; plus the Forest had such strong links to Wales. This forum has seen how several Foresters joined the South Wales Borderers at Brecon, including Christoper Malson as per the prior thread. In general, many British soldiers didn't join their local/home Regiment, and even if they did they often got transferred to another one. In fact I see from the prior thread that altho' Conrad Malson did join the Glosters, he did it while in South West London... My gut feeling is that Albert would have joined the Borderers, perhaps at the same time as Christoper.

Unfortunately this may turn into a case of searching thro all the available Medal Card Records for all the various Alberts, in the hope that you'll find one who not only has his Service Records as well (not all exist, as I'm sure you know), but those Records will include mention of next-of-kin etc in Mitcheldean.

I've just done a quick search of our local newspapers using the BNA website, but sofar cannot find any reference to Albert, but it was only a very quick look, if I were you I'd search them far more thoroughly within the many lists of casualties etc. I'd have expected him to be mentioned in the local papers especially if injured; eg one of the Roll of Honour articles I transcribed into the prior post mentions several local soldiers, hopefully you'll find one about Albert. I know the papers were an important reference for this site's soldiers database, which I see doesn't include Albert, presumably because he also wasn't found in the papers etc by Martin & David ?.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/resources/forest-of-dean-ww1-servicemen

Good luck in your searches, sorry couldn't be of more help.
Such a shame that the Gloster's own Museum cannot offer any help at all.
NOTE TO ADMIN, please consider adding Conrad Malson/Malsom to this site's WW1 list, thankyou. See prior thread for more details of his Service.

Albert John COOPER (1895 - 1951)

by Raging Jester @, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 19:19 (2840 days ago) @ Jefff

Thanks for the advice Jeff.

I think you're right (and as i feared) I'm going to have to hunt through the medal cards.

Would you be able to send me an example of a news paper causality list as I haven't came across one of these previousl? However to be fair I haven't tried hunting through the news papers yet, so this many be my news avenue (before the medal cards).

One last question. Is what is the likely hood that Albert could of ended up in the Royal Artillery, Army Servicd Corps or similar?

How did people end up joining these regiments/corps or was it just the fact that it was their local regiment like the SWB?

Albert John COOPER b1895 Mitcheldean; Which Army Unit ?

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, February 23, 2017, 21:21 (2840 days ago) @ Raging Jester

Hi Alex,
can I ask do you have ready-access to a subscription website ? Also roughly speaking where are you - UK ?, are you in or near the Forest ?. Knowing this will help our advice.

To be absolutely honest I'm NOT an expert altho I have always been interested in military history etc; if you search this forum for "WW1 soldiers" etc, this general subject's often been discussed and there are other members with greater knowledge of the Forest's soldiers than me. Alternatively there are specialist forums online which you can ask, or you may even find it's already been discussed, needs some careful search-engine work perhaps. Probably the best start is here http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/about/welcome-to-visitors-from-the-great-war-forum/

As far as I can understand, a fit & able man could in theory join any regiment, except perhaps the elite Guards or Cavalry units, altho' usually they did initially sign-up for whoever was local to where they lived, as those regiments sent their own recruiting parties around their area. In some cases this did include Artillery regiments, for example this prior thread should help you to understand a bit better;
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=34298
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=34322

Browsing the old newspapers via the BNA site has shown me that in the years just before WW1 it was a popular hobby across the UK to join the local militia aka Territorial Army units. In some areas these were Artillery units, or even Cavalry albeit probably rather elitist to join, eg Gloster Hussars at Cheltenham.
There were a few examples of such Artillery units in our area, including one at Newnham,
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=40671

There was also the Royal Garrison Artillery, a large number of which were home-based batteries, defending dockyards and ports etc. As far as I can make out, as the war dragged on the fitter men from these RGA units found themselves transferred to the front line fighting areas (the RGA was also siege & heavy artillery), to be replaced back-home with older or less-fit men such as Reservists. As well as the Long Trail site, this one can be very helpful
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/4698/royal-garrison-artillery/

Logically men who were used to working with horses, whether drivers, grooms or smiths, would join Horse Artillery or other units where their skills would be in demand, altho if course horses were vital throughout the Army. Ideally the Census and Marriage records give clues as to a man's skills. Unfortunately for us, in 1911 Albert was a "labourer" at the cement works, so no real clues there, and certainly nothing to immediately point at a specialist unit. Do you know what he did AFTER the war ? - many chaffeurs and lorry drivers, for example, would have benefited from being trained during Army service.

Similarly the Army Service Corps was a classic example, they needed huge numbers of men to handle the horse and mules which the Army was supplied by, and to a lesser extent the Field Ambulance units. Again, as with most WW1 queries, the Long Trail website helps, for ASC see
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-army-service-corps-in-the-f...

But this didn't always happen, as the majority of men joining in the early stages were needed for the Infantry, sometimes many joined them first before realising they'd be better suited elsewhere. After initially joining his "preferred" local unit, a soldier could still find himself transferred to another unit, if you look at Medal Cards they'll often show 2 or 3 different units. For each unit he got a new service number. Transfers happened for various reasons, eg if a unit had suffered really heavy casualties in the Somme. Similarly as the war progressed and the need was seen for men with mechanical skills, they might join the new Mechanised units or Machine Gun companies; similarly sewer-builders and miners into the R.E. Tunnelling units.

Ref the newspapers casualty lists, just one example is here.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=47106
Sadly they became a regular feature in local newspapers.

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