James EDWARDS - Bream - Forest of Dean FHT Forum

please can anyone give me any information reguarding EDWARDS family from bream.my grandfather was william wilfred b 1913/william wilfred b 1890 /james edwards b 1850.can not seem to get back any furthur.thanks

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Record_ID: 38204
Entry Number: 238
Year: 1846
Month: Aug
Day: 9
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Charlotte
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susannah
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newherne
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: Henry Wray Off[iciating] Minister
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P209 IN 1/4
Page No: 30
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

The age is a bit out on this one, but maybe?

Record_ID: 5017
Entry Number: 422
Year: 1861
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Surname: EDWARDS
Forenames: Charlotte
Place of Residence: Cinderford
Age at death: 19 years
Officiating Minister: J.G.Smythies
Event: Burial
Cause of death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P85/1 in 1/12
Page No: 53
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St Johns
Soundex: E363

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thanks

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Glad you 'cracked' it then!

Chris

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This looks like the correct burial record for Charlotte.

Record_ID: 26371
Entry_Number: 559
Year: 1865
Month: Aug
Day: 20
Surname: EDWARDS
Forenames: Charlotte
Residence: Lydney
Age_at_death: years19
Officiating_Minister: W.H.Purchas Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/12
Page_No: 70
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

Regards

Stephen Smith

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Record_ID: 38045
Entry Number: 79
Year: 1844
Month: Feb
Day: 10
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Mary Ann
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susanna
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Lidney
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: Charles Taylor
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P209 IN 1/4
Page No: 10
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

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Record_ID: 12626
Entry Number: 281
Year: 1843
Month: Apr
Day: 15
Groom Surname: EDWARDS
Groom Forenames: William
Groom Age at Marriage: of full age
Groom condition: Bachelor
Groom Rank or Profession: Labourer
Groom Residence: Hoggins
Groom Father's Surname: Edwards
Groom Father's Forenames: James
Groom Father's Rank or Profession: Mason
Bride Surname: DOWNS
Bride Forenames: Susanna
Bride Age at Marriage: of full age
Bride Condition: Spinster
Bride Rank or Profession: none stated
Bride Residence: Hoggins
Bride Father's Surname: Downs
Bride Father's Forenames: Richard
Bride Father's Rank or Profession: Labourer
Licence or Banns: Banns
Date of banns:
Signature or Mark: Both sign
Witness 1: Mark of William Downs
Witness 2: Ann Watkins
Other witnesses:
Officiating Minister: H W Sheppard Curate
Event type: Marriage
Memoranda:
Transcriber's Notes:
Register Reference: P227 IN 1/12
Page No: 141
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex Groom: E363
Soundex Bride: D520

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Hi Paula

At the time of the 1861 Census the girls would have been about 15 & 17 years of age. It is quite possible they were in service somewhere. I haven't been able to find a birth/baptism for James yet.

Regards
Chris

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james edwards b 1850 west dean

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Year: 1826
Month: Aug
Day: 6
Parents Surname: DOWNS
Child Forenames: Susannah
Father's Forenames: Richard
Mother's Forenames: Mary
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newarn [Newerne]
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: J Formby
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda: Daugh[te]r of
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC 209 IN 1/3
Page No: 86
Parish_Chapel: Lydney

1841
Richard Downs abt 1791 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Mary Downs abt 1801 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Susan Downs abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire
Lucy Parry abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Lydney, Gloucestershire

1841 Possible in Yorkley
James Edwards abt 1796 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire Collier
Ann Edwards abt 1796 Newland, Gloucestershire
Charles Edwards abt 1821 Newland, Gloucestershire
Frances Edwards abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Henry Edwards abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
Hester Edwards abt 1827 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire
James Edwards abt 1823 Newland, Gloucestershire
William Edwards abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire

1851
William Edwards abt 1825 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Prisoner North Hamlet, Gloucestershire

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

Gloucester Gaol
1851
edwards william
parish Lydney
Ref Q/Gc6/2
Occ. labourer
commital 25 Mar 1851
age 16 ( born 1835 possibly - transcription may not be accurate)

1851 Dark Hole, nr Saunders Green / Bream Woodside
Susan Edwards abt 1825 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Charlotte Edwards abt 1847 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
James Edwards abt 1849 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary A Edwards abt 1844 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

1861 No 1Albert St Lydney
William Edwards 36 Lydney
Susan Edwards 36 Lydney
Eliza Edwards 9
James Edwards 11
Julia Edwards 4
Richard J Edwards 1
William Edwards 7

1871 Lydney
Sussanna Edwards 44 Lydney
Elenar Edwards 9
Emma Edwards 6 months
Fanny Edwards 7
Richard Edwards 11
William Edwards 16

1881 Primrose Hill
Susan Edwards abt 1827 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Lodger Lydney, Gloucestershire
Emma Edwards abt 1871 Lydney, Gloucestershire, England Lodger Lydney, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Slowhands

I have a little puzzle for you.

In the family James & Ann Edwards from 1841 census there is indeed a William with birth year 1825. You have listed that William married Susanna Down.

How do you know that it is this William (parents of James And Ann) who married Susanna Downs?

On the parish records there are 3 William Edwards born in 1825, one in Parkend, one in Lydney and the other in Ross-On-Wye.

When comparing the fathers occupations it would appear that William with parents of James And Mary married Susanna Downs, fathers occupation mason. A William Edwards (also born 1825) married Selina James on 21 May 1850, fathers occupation collier. I think this William has the parents James & Ann.

I do not know any of the above by authority but just by fitting pieces of information together to see what fits. Of course I could be completely wrong.

Regards

Stephen Smith

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Interesting - when I get a little more time I will look at this - I suspect more records have been transcribed and what was a best fit in 2008 may no long be that !!

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Does anyone know why William Edwards born 1825 of Lydney was sentenced to imprisonment in or around 1851 at Gloucester Gaol.

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Does anyone know why William Edwards born 1825 of Lydney was sentenced to imprisonment in or around 1851 at Gloucester Gaol.

You can order a document from Glos Archives ( he may not be yours age possibly 16)
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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1851 Census, Gloucester

William EDWARDS - age 26, Carter, born Lydney

----
Ancestry: England & Wales Criminal Register

29 March 1851

William EDWARDS - larcency -

Under Column: - Imprisoned: (sate if also Whipped or Fined)

written down is : 1 week

---

Ancestry: England & Wales Criminal Register

16 May 1852

William EDWARDS, larcency - Not Guilty

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Record_ID: 38958
Entry Number: 192
Year: 1856
Month: Nov
Day: 23
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Julia Hannah
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susannah
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newherne
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: Charles Taylor
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page No: 24
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

Record_ID: 39206
Entry Number: 440
Year: 1859
Month: Oct
Day: 30
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Richard John
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susan
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newherne
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: B.Philpot Vicar
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page No: 55
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

Record_ID: 39606
Entry Number: 840
Year: 1864
Month: May
Day: 29
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Fanny
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susan
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newerne
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: S.C.Phillips Curate
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page No: 105
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

Record_ID: 39400
Entry Number: 634
Year: 1862
Month: Jan
Day: 26
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Eleanor Jane
Father's Forenames: William
Mother's Forenames: Susanna
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Newherne
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating Minister: B.Philpot Vicar
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page No: 80
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

If this is same family Susannah is a widow in 1871:

Record_ID: 40254
Entry Number: 1488
Year: 1871
Month: Nov
Day: 3
Parents Surname: EDWARDS
Child Forenames: Emma
Father's Forenames: [not stated]
Mother's Forenames: Susan
Mother's Surname:
Place of Residence: Albert Street
Occupation: Widow
Officiating Minister: John J. Trollope Vicar
Event type: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page No: 186
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

Possible for William snr? In which case who was the father of Emma?

Record_ID: 26523
Entry Number: 711
Year: 1867
Month: Sep
Day: 25
Surname: EDWARDS
Forenames: William
Place of Residence: Lydney
Age at death: 44 years
Officiating Minister: W.Bradbury Off[iciating] Minister
Event: Burial
Cause of death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P209 IN 1/12
Page No: 89
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

I haven't found a baptism for William jnr yet, but this looks like a burial for him.

Record_ID: 26827
Entry Number: 1015
Year: 1872
Month: Aug
Day: 18
Surname: EDWARDS
Forenames: William
Place of Residence: Albert Street Lydney
Age at death: 18
Officiating Minister: John J.Trollope
Event: Burial
Cause of death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register Reference: P209 IN 1/12
Page No: 127
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: E363

N/T baptisms for James c1850, Eliza c1852 or William c1854?

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hi paula, my great grandfather was samuel edwards son of james 1823 and ann adams. like yourself i have been very confused with the edwards family and slowhands if you are reading this i think i am in a mess!

i have james (mason) c.24.01.1796 lydney who i thought could have married a mary ann, as it seems to me sometimes she is mary and sometimes ann!

children
helen 05.02.1815 c.lydney born aylburton
jane 17.08.1817 c.lydney (labouring woman) who married thomas jones
thomas 1820 b.lydney
james 09.02.1823 (my direct ancestor) who married ann adams
william 20.02.1825 c.lydney (coalminer) married selina james
esther 31.12.1827 c.parkend
charles 05.08.1827 c.lydney (mason) married sarah williams
john 01.11.1829 c.lydney
richard 15.01.1832 (mason) c.lydney married jane whittington
fanny 1834 married charles shaw

please could anyone sort this out for me and tell me the error of my ways lol! paula - we must be related!
kind regards to all carol

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Carol

There are two separate families, the one you have listed is different from the one detailed in the above threads.

The family you have listed does have similar members and one may be confused by each family.

For your family, I have found baptism records which match your list of children of James and Mary for Helen, Jane, Thomas, James, Charles, John and Richard.

I believe that the baptism you have for William is incorrect, you may wish to re look at William for a baptised on 27 February 1825 instead. Williams parents for the one you have stated are James and Ann, where as the one I am suggesting are James and Mary, which match your family.

I can not find a baptism for Esther but the date seems to be inconsistent with Charles was was born 4 months earlier.

I can not find any baptism for Fanny, but it appears you may have found it already.

Regards

Stephen Smith

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Some of my family baptisms where William & Mary also William & Ann. The Archivist at Glos. Records Office explained - the mother was probably christened Mary Ann - hence the change in name in different baptism records, as the surname was unusual and the occupation of the father the same.

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1861 Census, Yorkley - West Dean

Thomas ADAMS - Head - Widower - 77 - Coalminer have been - all born Westdean Glos
Sarah ADAMS - Grandaughter - age 17

next to

EDWARDS

James - married - 39 - Coalminer
Ann - 32 - wife
Charles - 10
Elizabeth - 7 - Schollar
James - 4 - Schollar
William Henry - 3 - Schollar
Samuel - 1

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FOD records

Marriage at Parkend - 11 November 1849

James EDWARDS, age 26 - Bachelor, Collier, residence Pillowell
father: James EDWARDS - Collier

married

Ann ADAMS - age 22, Spinster, residence, Yorkley
father: Thomas ADAMS, Labourer

witnesses Charles EDWARDS, Elizabeth EDWARDS

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1851 Census, West Dean

James EDWARDS - 27 - Coalminer, born Hasbury, Staffordshire Hanbury - which is in Worcestershire
Ann EDWARDS -22 - born West Dean
Charles EDWARDS - 4 months born West Dean

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1851 Census, West Dean, Bailey Hill

EDWARDS

Charles - 29 - born Har/n/bury, Staffordshire
Elizabeth - wife - 30 born West Dean

-----

James father was a Coalminer, and a Charles EDWARDS was a witness

This may help (for starters)

1841 Census Glos

Newland

EDWARDS

James - 45 - Collier - not born in County
Ann - 40 - not born in County
Charles - 20 - Collier - not born in County
James - 18 - Collier - not born in County
William - 16 - Collier - born in County
Hester - 14 - born in County
Frances - 12 - born in County
Henry - 10 - born in County
William EDWARDS - 89 - Indp - born in County

1851 Census, Pillowell, Glos

EDWARDS

James - 55 - Coalminer, born West Dean
Mary - 56 - born Worcestershire, P of Habton? (possible Hanbury - where James/Charles say they were born....)
Esther - 23
Fanny - 21
Henry - 18

1861 Census, NewlanD
Yorkley Wood

EDWARDS

Ann - 70 Widow - born Worcestershire (Ales Amere - transcribed as)
Esther - un - 33
Fanny - un - 30 - Nurse
Henry - grandson - 2
William - 35 - Coalminer
Mary - grandd - 9
Emm - grandd - 7

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Marilyn (regretably I mis-spelt name previosuly)

Brilliant as always, I think you are right that the mothers names could be Mary Ann. As Carol in the recent reply states and it as been said for the Edwards family I am researching being the topic of the original thread.

In the case of Carol's Edwards family and the original thread, there are two different Edward families, one Yorkley/Parkend James and Ann and another from Lydney James and Mary.

Regards

Stephen Smith

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As the 1911 census images are now on line on Ancestry - although 'tricky' to search - the 1911 Summary Book Index gives the address

Wales 1911 - Monmouthshire - West Dean

Mill Hill Bream - 4 rooms

Anne EDWARDS - 64 Widow - had 8 children 4 living, 4 dead - born Bream, Gloucestershire
John EDWARDS - 26 - Trammer? Coal Miner
William EDWARDS - 21 - ditto

1901 Census, Mill Hill, Bream

James EDWARDS - 52 - Coal Cutter, born Bream
Ann - 52
John - 16 - Coal Miner
William - 11 - Scholar

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I am interested for find anyone researching the Edwards family, in particular George 1868, Julia 1875, Rose May 1882 or John Richard 1885 all born at Bream Eves. Also there was another daughter, Mary Ann 1873, however she died in 1873.

Their parents are James 1852 born in Lydney who was a labourer in a Tin Works and Ann nee Richards 1848 born in Bream Eves.

They had another son William Wilfred, who I know about.

James and Ann were married June 1873 this places a question on the perantage of George and Mary Ann. They have the name Edwards, and James may have adopted George. Ann may have been married before, however, I can't find any records to suggest this.

What I would like to know is who they all married and have they any children. The ultimate is who was James's father.

Now there is a statement of William and Suzanna nee Down's. However, tracing the baptisms and marriages in the parish records, I believe this is a different Edwards family.

Regards

Stephen Smith

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James EDWARDS married Ann RICHARDS - FoD Register Office 1873

As Ann says she was born in Bream

1911 Census,Wales Census Mill Hill, Bream
living in 4 rooms

EDWARDS

Ann - 64, Widow, 8 children born alive, 4 living, 4 dead - all born Bream
John - son - 26: both trammer Coal Miners
William - son - 21

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Baptisms at Bream: parents, James & Ann(e)

Mary Annie 1873 - buried 25 Sept 1873 age 2 months at Bream
Julia Alma 1875 (working in London 1891 Census - Servant) - 1901 Census, Housemaid - Middx, South Simms
James Roland 1878 - buried 16 February 1878 age 5 weeks at Bream
William Leonard 1879 - not on the 1881 census[/color]
Rose May 1882 - 1911 Census age 28, Single Domestic Servant, The Lodge, Knoll Hill, Sneyd Park, Bristol.
Richard John 1885 - this is John on the 1911 census
William Wilfred 1890 - this is William on the 1911 census

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Ancestry: England & Wales Death Index

Name: Rose May EDWARDS

Birth Date: 21 Jan 1892

Date of Registration: Oct-No-Dec 1979

Age at Death: 87

Registration District: Forest of Dean

Inferred County: Gloucestershire

Volume: 22

Page: 1811

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1901 Census, Wales, West Dean
Mill Hill

EDWARDS

James - 52 - Coal cutter, all born Bream
Ann - 52
John - 16 - Coal Miner
William - 11

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1891 Census, Mill Hill
West Dean

EDWARDS

James - 43
Ann - 44
George - 22
Rose - 9
John - 6
William W - 11 months

---

1881 Census

EDWARDS

James - 27 - born Lydney
Ann - 33 - (c1848) born Bream Eaves
George - 13 - born Bream Eaves
Julia - 6 - born Bream Eaves

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1871 Census, Glos. West Dean. Parkend

James EDWARDS and Ann RICHARDS are at the same place in 1871

THOMAS

William - 37 - Haulier
Harriet - 31
William - 5
Walter - 1 year 3 months
George - 13
James EDWARDS - 21 Haulier Lodger (something in the status colm. can't read) - born Lydney)
Ann RICHARDS - 23 - Domestic Servant
Sarah BENFIELD - 75

---

????

1871 Census, Mile End Road, LONDON

COCKING

Thomas J - 38 - born Windsor, Berkshire
Catharine - 38 - born Southall Middx
Arthur T - 8 - born London
Emily A - - 7 - born London
George RICHARDS - 3, nephew, born Newnham, Glos

(George is not with this family on the 1881 census)

? Freebdm : Marriage Fulham District: A/M/J Qtr 1890 - Thomas J COCKING, Catherine SIDDON (may have had a late marriage?)

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1861 Census, West Dean, Mill Hill

Richard MADDOX - 47 - born Glos Lydney
Mary - 58 - born Newland
George RICHARDS - son of wife age 28 - born Bream
William RICHARDS - son of wife age 17 - Iron Miner, born Bream
Ann RICHARDS - dau of wife age 14 (c1847) - born Bream

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FOD records

Marriage at Newnham - 25 March 1860

Richard MADDOX, bachelor, Carpenter, father: John MADDOX, wood-cutter
married
Mary RICHARDS, Widow, residence: Newnham: father: Richard HEWLETT, farmer

by banns

witnesses: Susan & Edward ROBERTS

(Newnham is where George RICHARDS age 3 1868 - is listed as being born on the 1871 census London)

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FoD records - Burial at Bream - 2 August 1854

George RICHARDS, age 58, Bream's Eaves

Memoranda:

Mary Richards Eaves Widow
The Memoranda is probably linked to this burial and is written at the back of the register in an appendix entitled 'Register for the Names of persons who have secured Burying Ground by paying the usual fee'

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1851 Census Bream Eaves

RICHARDS

George - 51 Gamekeeper, born Glos Newland
Mary - 48
John - 20
Emmalia - 10
William - 7
Ann - 4

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1841 Census, Glos. Dean Forest, Ross, Bream Eaves

RICHARDS

George - 35 - labourer - all born in County (FOD records, baptised at Newland 2 Sept 1798 - parents John/Mary of Clearwell)
Mary - 31
John - 11
George - 8
Mary Ann - 4
Emmalia - 1

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FoD records

Marriage at Newland - 6 April 1830

George RICHARDS - Bachelor, residence, Newland
married
Mary HEWLETT, Spinister, residence, Newland

by banns

witnesses: James POLLEY and mark of Mary ISAAC

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Here is James with his parents in 1861

1861 Census, Lydney
Albert Street

EDWARDS

William - 36 Ag Lab. born Lydney
Susan - 36 - born Lydney
James - 11 - born West Dean
Eliza - 9 - born Bream
William - 7 - born Bream
Julia - 4 - born Lydney
Richard J - 2 born Lydney

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'Now there is a statement of William and Suzanna (nee DOWNS). However, tracing the baptisms in the parish records, I believe this is a different EDWARDS family'

Gloucestershirebdm

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

baptism of EDWARDS - mother's maiden name DOWNS

include

Charlotte - 1846 - FOD, Chepstow, Lydney **
Eliza - 1852 - FOD, Westbury on Severn, Newnham
Ellen Jane - 1861 - FOD, Chepstow, Lydney
Fanny - 1864 - ditto
Juliana - 1856 - ditto
Mary Ann - 1844 - ditto
Richard John - 1859 - ditto
William - 1854 - FOD, Monmouth, Coleford

------

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1851 Census, Glos. North Hamlet
District County Jail

William EDWARDS - 26, Carter, born Lydney, Glos.

1851 Census, Glos Lydney

address:

'Dark Hole" (next house Bream Woodside)

EDWARDS

Susan - 26 - born Lydney
Mary A - 7 (Glos BDM, mother's maiden name DOWNS, 1844, Chepstow, Lydney - see above)
Charlotte - 4 (Glos BDM, mother's maiden name DOWNS - 1846, Chepstow, Lydney - see above)
James - 2 - born West Dean - no trace of baptism on records, was William in Jail then? or working outside the Forest)

but William could have been in Jail - there is a James EDWARDS, imprisoned for Larceny 10 April 1849, Gloucestershire - but given 4 months! - there are a number of James EDWARDS, Gloucestershire, on Ancestry, Criminal records around that time.

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

James EDWARDS - Bream (General)

Charlotte Edwards bap. 1846

William Edwards

William Edwards

Charlotte Edwards bap. 1846

Mary Ann Edwards bap. 1844

William Edwards m Susannah Downs 1843

Charlotte & Mary Ann 1861

Charlotte & Mary Ann 1861

Susan EDWARDS nee DOWNS -1826 Lydney

William EDWARDS -1825 Lydney

William EDWARDS -1825 Lydney

William Edwards - Gloucester Gaol

William Edwards - Gloucester Gaol

William EDWARDS - Prison 1851 Census

EDWARDS - Bream

James EDWARDS - Bream

James EDWARDS - Bream

EDWARDS

EDWARDS

James EDWARDS - Bream

Is anyone researching George or Julia Edwards

EDWARDS/MADDOX/HEWLETT

EDWARDS/DOWNS