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Is it possible that if I can't find a burial record that a relative was cremated? I am trying to trace my great grandfather John Jones, my grandfather, Noah Charles Jones was born in 1898 in Pillowell, by the 1901 census, my great grandmother Esther was widowed but I cannot find any burial records of John. Any insight would be gratefully received.

Best regards

AJ

2115 views

Without looking into the specifics the impression is that the Death you are looking for occured after 1901. Transcribed records on this site have a "privacy" cut off period , and the FreeBMD records dwindle after about 1920.

If you are looking in the full BMD then that is a different matter :-)

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

2062 views

Thanks for replying Slowhands, the death of John Jones was definitely before 1901 as Esther was a widow living in Pillowell at the 1901 census, and Noah was born in 1898 in Pillowell. Have searched BMD as well but cannot find any trace. They moved to South Heighton in Sussex from Pillowell, earlier children were born at South Heighton and John worked at the Cement Works there, I suppose it's possible that John died in South Heighton whilst Esther was pregnant and she moved back home to have her baby Noah. And that I've missed John's death on the BMD check, I will carry on looking, there must be some sort of logical explanation.

Best wishes

ajones5440

2064 views

OK, the "logical" reason is that John or the family are Non -conformist.
I cannot find entries for the other children in the parish records, so that would be my first route to explore.

Is Esther an ELAWAY from Pillowell by any chance ?

Name: Noah Charles Jones
Year of Registration: 1898
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 27

1901 Pillowell
Esther Jones abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Monmouthshire Widow
Harry Charles Jones abt 1895 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
John Victor Jones abt 1890 Newhaven, Sussex, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
Noah Charles Jones abt 1898 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
Walter Richard Jones abt 1897 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire
Wm Edward Jones abt 1883 Newhaven, Sussex, England Son West Dean, Monmouthshire

1891
John Jones abt 1856 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Head Heighton, Sussex
Esther Jones abt 1860 Pielowell, Gloucestershire, England Wife Heighton, Sussex
John V Jones abt 1890 Newhaven, Sussex, England Son Heighton, Sussex
Rosa Jones abt 1887 Newhaven, Sussex, England Daughter Heighton, Sussex
William Jones abt 1885 Newhaven, Sussex, England Son Heighton, Sussex

1881
John Jones abt 1856 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Esther Jones abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

2050 views

Name: John Jones
Name: Esther Hallaway
Year of Registration: 1877
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 25

Year: 1877
Month: May
Day: 6
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Miner
Grooms_Residence: Pillowell
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Jones
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Hairdresser
Brides_Surname: HALLAWAY
Brides_Forenames: Esther
Brides_Age: 18
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Pillowell
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hallaway
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: John
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: G Sheppard
Witness_2: Elizabeth Damaris Prout Powell
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Jo[hn] Jo[seph] Elsworth Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: G Sheppard written next to witness signature
Register_Reference: P245 IN 1/21
Page_Number: 173
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

1871
John Elway 55
Mary Ann Elway 50
Esther Elway 11
John Elway 8
William J Elway 16

1861 Pilowell
John Ellaway abt 1816 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Mary Ann Ellaway abt 1820 Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Esther Ellaway abt 1860 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
ThomasEllaway abt 1846 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Ellaway abt 1855 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

struggling to find a birth for Esther - pointing towards non-conforist (?)

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

2085 views

I have Esther Elway on my tree, I have her married to John Jones.
John Elway married Mary Ann Cartwright whom was born in Tredegar, Wales.
I have a large Elway/Ellway tree, the spelling of the name Elway keeps altering with different record enteries.

1667 views

We must be distantly related then Kate, Esther was my great grandmother.

1662 views

Yes, we are I have double checked and it is the same family. I will check John Jones' family tomorrow, as my other family are Jones' from Pillowell

1684 views

Year: 1856
Month: Aug
Day: 26
Parents_Surname: JONES
Child_Forenames: John Stephens
Fathers_Forenames: Joseph Chamberlain
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth Emma
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newnham
Occupation: Hairdresser
Officiating_Minister: E C Brice
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/9
Page_Number: 87
Parish_Chapel: Newnham

1861
Joseph Chamberlain Jones abt 1825 Gloucestershire, England Head Newnham, Gloucestershire Hairdresser
Elizabeth Emma Jones abt 1824 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newnham, Gloucestershire
Agness Bettington Jones abt 1855 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire
Alice Anna Merrick Jones abt 1858 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire
Elizh Emma Merrick Jones abt 1851 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire
John Stephens Jones abt 1856 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Son Newnham, Gloucestershire
Martha Maltilda Jones abt 1853 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire
Rosa Annie Jones abt 1860 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire

1851
Joseph C Jones abt 1825 Gloster, Gloucestershire, England Head Newnham, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth E Jones abt 1823 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Wife Newnham, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth E N Jones J abt 1850 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Newnham, Gloucestershire

Year: 1848
Month: Dec
Day: 7
Grooms_Surname: JONES
Grooms_Forenames: Joseph Chamberlain
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: hair dresser
Grooms_Residence: Newnham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Jones
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Joseph
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: shoe maker
Brides_Surname: BETTINGTON
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth Emma
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Newnham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Bettington
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Edward
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Licence_or_Banns: licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: both sign
Witness_1: Edward Bettington
Witness_2: Caroline Bettington
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: E.C. Brice perp.curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P228 IN 1/13
Page_Number: 60
Parish_Chapel: Newnham

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

2049 views

Thanks Slowhands for your confirmation, would have posted earlier but broadband went down. As I discovered yesterday, Esther Jones was indeed Esther Hallaway of Pillowell before she married. I'm intrigued as to why she and John went all the way over to Sussex to work and raise a family and then she came back to Pillowell. I wonder if there are any other Forest families that went over to Sussex with them?

As you saw, John's father, Joseph was a hairdresser in Newnham High Street, to think of the number of times I must have walked past that house without realising that one of my ancestors lived there!!

Best regards

AJ

1987 views

I have found out some new information. The reason I could not find the right record was that John Jones died at the cement works in South Heighton in 1892, before Noah was born. So John Jones is not Noah's father even though his name is on the birth certificate. I have confirmation that John died in 1892 from a copy of the death certificate.

I have hesitated to post about this but my family are aware that I am researching the family history and all of this happened a long time ago.

1724 views

AJ

thanks for updating the story, there are many who discover similar "skeletons" to your story when they start to delve into family history.

good luck and the forum is here to help / assist

S

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

1685 views

I have found some new information. I was looking in the wrong year for John Jones's death, he died in 1892 at the South Heighton cement works, before Noah was born. So he was not Noah's father, even though his name was on the birth certificate.

I have hesitated to post this, but my family are aware that I am doing this research and after all, it was a long time ago.

1676 views

I lived in Pillowell during childhood and remeber frquently visiting a family whose father was Noah Jones. I knew his wife as 'aunty Lizzie' and their daughter Francis and son Royston. I believe they were related somewhere along the line to the Ellway family of pillowell. Hence my knowing her as aunty.

I remeber lizzie passing away and vaguely remeber when Noah was deceased.
Don;t know if any of this is helpful, regards Christine Jones

1868 views

Dear Christine,

Thanks so much for replying, I was so pleased to read it. And yes, we must be distantly related, my Uncle Royston is still alive, though unfortunately my dad George, the eldest brother died a few months ago and Frances the youngest sister also passed away some time ago.

The connection is that Noah's father John (my great grandfather) was married to Esther Hallaway from Pillowell, although I have seen lots of different spellings of Hallaway including Ellway.

I always thought that my dad's family came from Wales but since searching back, I am happy to discover that they all came from Pillowell and before that Newnham back to the 1840's.

Thank you once again and very best wishes to you,

AJ

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