Was William Mountjoy Lander the father of my William

Was William Mountjoy LANDER the father of my William Mountjoy LANDER who was buried 08 January 1848 aged 44 and married to Elizabeth ELSMORE 15 Oct 1832
Elizabeth and William LANDER had a daughter
1.Maria Elizabeth Aston LANDERS (Went by last name of ELSMORE)have no other information on this family .
I note at the marriage of Elizabeth and William LANDER a Esther Mountjoy LANDERS

William Mountjoy LANDER, Bream,
May 9th 1914 . -aged 71 years.

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No.

William's father was James LANDER (MOUNTJOY) who married Maria BLAKE on 28 June 1801 at Newland Church.

Here is William's baptism:
Year: 1803
Month: Jul
Day: 24
Parents_Surname: MOUNTJOY
Child_Forenames: William
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Maria
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Clearwell
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 19
Parish_Chapel: Newland

Elizabeth married Richard BIRT in 1844:
Year: 1849
Month: Dec
Day: 23
Groom Surname: BIRT
Groom Forenames: Richard
Groom Age at Marriage: full age
Groom condition: Bachelor
Groom Rank or Profession: Collier
Groom Residence: Bream Eaves
Groom Father's Surname: BIRT
Groom Father's Forenames: Thomas
Groom Father's Rank or Profession: Labourer
Bride Surname: LANDER
Bride Forenames: Elizabeth
Bride Age at Marriage: full age
Bride Condition: Widow
Bride Rank or Profession:
Bride Residence: Bream Slade
Bride Father's Surname: ELSMORE
Bride Father's Forenames: Joseph
Bride Father's Rank or Profession: Collier
Licence or Banns: Banns
Date of banns:
Signature or Mark: both sign
Witness 1: Mark of John Grimes
Witness 2: Mark of Sarah Powell
Other witnesses:
Officiating Minister: Henry Poole
Event type: Marriage
Memoranda:
Transcriber's Notes:
Register Reference: P145 IN 1/20
Page No: 82
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

and this is the family in 1851 Census:
Piece Folio SchNo Town Surname Forename Relatn Marr Age Occupation County Place
2444 0257 095 New China Level BIRT Richard HD M 36 Coal Miner GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level BIRT Elizabeth WI M 43 - GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Maria DA U 16 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Joseph SO U 13 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Elizabeth DA - 11 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY William SO - 8 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Emma DA - 6 Scholar GLS West Dean

Esther Mountjoy Landers was William's sister. She was baptised Esther MOUNTJOY on 27 February 1805 at Newland.

Best wishes
Mike

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Joseph Mountjoy 1838 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England West Dean, Gloucestershire
Son of Elizabeth ELSMORE and William Mountjoy LANDERS trying to find him no luck.
Also many thanks Michael Gwilliam for ur help.

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Joseph appears in the 1851 Census as follows:
Piece Folio SchNo Town Surname Forename Relatn Marr Age Occupation County Place
2444 0257 095 New China Level BIRT Richard HD M 36 Coal Miner GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level BIRT Elizabeth WI M 43 - GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Maria DA U 16 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Joseph SO U 13 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Elizabeth DA - 11 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY William SO - 8 Scholar GLS West Dean
2444 0257 095 New China Level MOUNTJOY Emma DA - 6 Scholar GLS West Dean

In 1861 the family is the same except:
1/ Surname of Elizabeth's children is given as LANDERS
2/ Joseph is missing.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that this is his burial:

Year: 1861
Month: Apr
Day: 2
Surname: LANDERS
Forenames: Joseph
Residence: Bream Tufts
Age_at_death: 23
Officiating_Minister: Cornelius Witherby Incumbent
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/17
Page_No: 46
Parish_Chapel: Bream

Mike

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Puzzling why they used 2 different surnames isn't it. Any ideas why this would of been please. I know I hate my surname because of a name change muck up with the immgration records clerk of the time when my other gtgt's came out to New Zealand because of a misunderstanding of how the clerk heard the olds talk with their Cornish/Devon brogue and fact the olds coulda read nor write.
Many thanks to you Mike, bertha and slowhands for your help to me.

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2001 views

You might be interested in the following - I was fortunate enough to see a copy of "A Mountjoy Family at Clearwell Meend" by Cyril R. Mountjoy, 1989. This documents the more recent history of the Mountjoy/Lander family and the facts that Cyril was able to gather regarding the origin of the Mountjoy name. The publication is in the Gage Library at the Dean Heritage Museum, Cinderford, Gloucestershire, GL14 2UB. email deanmuse@btconnect.com

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1863 views

Many thanks for this information alas I am in New Zealand and unable to view it.

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1706 views

--
Finding new ways to spell Vaughan every day!

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2074 views

New China Level no idea where that is any clues please. Many thanks i must of missed ur past post Bertha.

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2045 views

All that part of the Township of West Dean comprised in the Sun Tump, Breams Meend, New China Level, Ellwall, Cleave End Green, Sling Pit, Clearwell Meend, Dark Hill, Ellwood, Bromley Lodge, Drybrook and Ellwood Inclosure

near Bream Meend and Ellwall !

The China Engine Pit was near Ellwall / Noxon ( and Princess Louise Pit)

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

coords 359200,207200

in 1876

FOREST OF DEAN IRON COMPANY (Limited),
iron ore proprietors, China Engine Mines - Solomon Jones, manager

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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2020 views

I've just found a very interesting website "Derelict Places (Industrial)" which includes this posting discussing the recent history of the Princess Louise pit and other iron mines in that locality, it also contains some recent photographs.

A small part of the lengthy and informative text reads
"Princess Louise was part of a whole complex of Iron mines in this small area which included the China Bottom Mine (which my Great Granddad started work in as a 10 year old and which was always known as ‘Cheney Bottom’ by us kids growing up in the area and a favorite playing place), the Ebbw Vale Shaft (probably named after where its owners came from???), New Dunn Mine, Clearwell/Old Ham/Old Bow Mines (parts of which are known nowadays as Clearwell Caves and are open to the public), the Noxon Park Mines, Oakwood Mill Deep Level, Easter Mine, Sling Pit and British Pit.
……..
All of these mines were more or less closed by the First World War, then re-opened for the duration of that war, then most were closed again quickly afterwards…..
The exception was the Old Ham / New Dunn Mine complex which was re-opened yet again during the Second World War."

http://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/showthread.php?p=89358

Thanks very much to the author "Smiffy" and to the excellent Derelict Places website. This mechanical engineer with a keen interest in industrial history found it a pleasure to read, albeit touched with sadness.

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

Was William Mountjoy Lander the father of my William (General)

Was William Mountjoy Lander the father of my William

Joseph Mountjoy 1838 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England ?

Joseph Mountjoy 1838 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England ?

Confusious says They have two surnames, very interesting

Mountjoy-Lander

Mountjoy-Lander

Was William Mountjoy Lander the father of my William

New China Level no idea where that is

New China Level

Princess Louise Iron Mine