John Tyler Marriage to Belinda Ruck 12/25/1863 (General)
In the transcript details for the above mentioned marriage record, I.D. 1776, entry # 64, John Tyler's age is given as 21. Residence Breams Eaves and his father is listed as John Tyler also.
I also have a record of John Tyler and Belinda's residence in Pennsylvania, U.S.A. where they raised their children.
My problem is John's birth records. I can find no concrete evidence that he has an earthly birth. I assumed he was born in England but can find no trail of John or parents. I tried Wales and found a good match but then cannot confirm his movement from Wales to England. A John Tyler shows up on 1851 Wales census that seems to fit, however, this John does not show up on further Wales census reports.
Where oh where was John Tyler born and how can I prove it?
I hope the message contains enough good information and look forward to a response as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Jim Russell
John (1842) & Belinda (1839) TYLER
by slowhands 
, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, September 07, 2009, 09:00 (5631 days ago) @ Searcher99
How does this fit with your USA information ?
1841 Whitecroft
Edwin Luce [RUCK] abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire Blacksmith
Sarah Luce abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Edward Luce abt 1829 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Henry Luce abt 1831 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Summer May abt 1836 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Belinda May [RUCK] abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
1851
Edward Ruck abt 1801 Little Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Ruck abt 1799 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Henry Ruck abt 1833 Yorkley, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Samuel Ruck abt 1835 Yorkley, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Belinda Ruck abt 1838 Yorkley, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Ruck abt 1843 Whitecroft, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
1861
Thomas Hill abt 1813 Awre, Gloucestershire, England Head Newland, Gloucestershire
Ann Hill abt 1790 Herefordshire, England Wife Newland, Gloucestershire
James Ames abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Son Newland, Gloucestershire
Balinta Ruck abt 1838 Gloucestershire, England Niece Newland, Gloucestershire
Year: 1863
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: TYLER
Grooms_Forenames: John
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Breams Eaves
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Tyler
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: RUCK
Brides_Forenames: Belinda
Brides_Age: 24
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Lydney Lane Bream
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Ruck
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Edward
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Blacksmith
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Thomas Ames
Witness_2: Mary Ames
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Cornelius Witherby P[riest in] C[harge]
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P57 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 32
Parish_Chapel: Bream
1871 Bream
John Tyler 29 Monmouthshire
Belinda Tyler 32
Jesse Tyler 6
John Tyler 3
William Tyler 2
< assume they move overseas >
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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
John (1842) & Belinda (1839) TYLER
Thanks for the quick response. Most data is confirmed and thats super.
My concern is this: If John Tyler was born in Monmouthshire, Wales in 1842 is there any record, in England, that confirms this. For example, was movement within Great Britain documented as a true immigration would be or was there free movement among the different countries? Or am I making too much of this?
Thanks again,
Jim
John (1842)TYLER Monmouthshire
by slowhands , proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, September 07, 2009, 16:14 (5630 days ago) @ Searcher99
Understand !
We're just an Island no passport control between England - Wales :-)
I agree at the moment it looks like you are trying to find a John TYLER / TILER / TYLOR born in the county of Monmouthshire in approx 1842, with a father John.
Its strange that he appears for his wedding in 1863 , but his "foot print" in the 1861 census is very light ...
the closest I can get right now :-
1851
John Tyler abt 1816 Bedminster, Somerset, England Head Bedminster, Somerset
Sarah Tyler abt 1816 Felton, Somerset, England Wife Bedminster, Somerset
George Tyler abt 1843 Bedminster, Somerset, England Son Bedminster, Somerset
John Tyler abt 1846 Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Bedminster, Somerset
James Tyler abt 1850 Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales Son Bedminster, Somerset
Thomas Tyler abt 1853 Bedminster, Somerset, England Son Bedminster, Somerset
William Tyler abt 1859 Bedminster, Somerset, England Son Bedminster, Somerset
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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
John (1842) & Belinda (1839) TYLER
Slowhands, your name describes to a T my typing skills.
Thanks for the Ruck info.That helps a lot.
As I mentioned in a response to rookancestry I'm cannot confirm John Tyler's birthplace. Not knowing his parents name's it's hard to track these records ( I'm sure you are well aware ). There are too many Tylers. Can you point me to another source to help me out of this slump?
Thanks,
Jim
TYLER prior thread
by slowhands , proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Sunday, September 13, 2009, 07:36 (5625 days ago) @ Searcher99
this prior thread may help - instinct suggest that these families are linked
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=18343
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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
John (1842) & Belinda (1839) TYLER
All the responses from everyone have been great. There is so much to learn.
Here is my stumblig block. I don't seem to be able to prove John Tyler's ancestry or birth. At the end of one of responses it lists Johns birth as 1842, Monmouthshire. Assuming that's accurate, what town or parish was he born and who were his parents. I have been going through so many records on Ancestry.com.uk/. Census records,Birth, Marriage,and Death records as well. literally thousands of Tylers, Tailors, Taylors and more. Is there another place you can suggest?
In addition, can someone help me understand whether Monmouthshire, 1800's is Wales or England.
Thanks again for everyone's help.
Jim
John (1842) & Belinda (1839) TYLER
by slowhands , proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, September 14, 2009, 21:48 (5623 days ago) @ Searcher99
For the purposes of this Forum most times Monmouthshire is in Wales.
If you are using the Latter Day Saints site Monmouthsire is found under England.
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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster & Hereford Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>
John Tyler Marriage to Belinda Ruck 12/25/1863
by rookancestrybest , United Kingdom, Friday, September 11, 2009, 22:25 (5626 days ago) @ Searcher99
I have family who emigrated to the United States from the Forest of Dean area and they were called Rook or Rooke (Ruk is another spelling as is Ruck). I also have Tylors/Tylers, including at least two called John in my family tree. I am wondering whether there is a connection? Particularly as iron working (blacksmith) and mining were also what this family did. My relatives, emigrated to Poughkeepsie (up state New York) in 1848 arriving on a boat called The Cosmo which docked in New York. I have found out about the boat from using my local library's subscription to Ancestry.com . The man was called Charles J Rook(e) and his wife was Ann Rook (also known as Ann Mary Rook nee Ann Mary
Ad[d]ams). Charles died 8 years after they emigrated aged only about 30 years. I have never found the cause of death. His wife, (who might also have been a distant relative to him) returned to England for a visit with her son (she had three sons and no daughters but the other two sons died as children) in 1868 because she inherited some money from a brother whom she described in a letter as "a misor". One of my Rook relatives was responsible for ensuring she gained what was due to her from this will. Two of her other brothers emigrated, one called George Addams in 1854. Ann was the housekeeper for a doctor who was very kind to her when she became a widow.
A number of their relatives and descendants were in Canton in Pennsylvania and others in other parts of Pennsylvania. Some of the family also moved to Buffalo in New York later on. The step son of the nephew of Charles Rook (also both called Charles) also emigrated to Buffalo in the 1920a.
When I looked at the census in that area in the 1800s a great number of the neighbours of the Adams' in Canton were either of Welsh or Irish origin.
I have researched the area around Poughkeepsie and there is a part of Duchess County (Poughkeepsie) which was called The Forest of Dean and from which the Poughkeepsie Iron Company worked. I have also found that there was the Forest of Dean Iron Co. in that part of the United States too.
I have noticed that there is an area around Cardiff called Canton so I am assuming that Canton was named after that. Though in Pennsylvania, the Canton in question, is only a few miles away from Poughkeepsie. My family appear to have married a number of people of Irish descent once they settled in the USA. I would be very interested if you are connected. If you are in the USA, I have sent scanned copies to the local library in Poughkeepsie (of original letters) from Ann Rook to my great-great-great grandfather and they are available for public viewing. One of them talks about how the whole town (Poughkeepsie) had celebrated the fact that the first transatlantic telegram had been sent from Queen Victoria to someone in Poughkeepsie.
John Tyler Marriage to Belinda Ruck 12/25/1863
Rookancestry,
I have very little info on the Ruck side. However, I'll share this: John Tyler b abt. 1842 either in Wales or England married Belinda Ruck (father Edward Ruck)
12-25-1863 in Bream. She was b. abt.1838. She lived on Lydney Lane, Bream at the time they were married. They immigrated to the U.S. about 1871 and settled around Houtzdale, Pennsylvania. They appear on the 1871 England census,still living in Bream, I believe.
Let me ask another question. Forgive me if it's too dumb for a response. For the period 1841 through 1871, was Monmouthshire part of England or part of Wales. You see, I cannot establish John Tyler's birth nor can I find his ancestry. I assume his father was John, but don't know for sure. You see, on the 1871 England census John is listed as being born in Monmouthshire, Wales.
Thanks for your response and I wish you good searching.
Jim
John Tyler Marriage to Belinda Ruck 12/25/1863
by rookancestrybest , United Kingdom, Monday, September 14, 2009, 21:40 (5623 days ago) @ Searcher99
Unfortunately Monmouth is one of those places on the border of England and Wales and it is sometimes categorised as England, sometimes as Wales and often as both. As far as the people who came from there were concerned, many spoke Welsh and would thus have classed themselves as Welsh whether it was officially in England or Wales at the time. This was because they would consider themselves to be culturally Welsh and might also have spoken the language. I would say you should look in both English and Welsh registries as villages nearby could be in either England or Wales and the borders could have changed. Some of my family were from the English side of the Forest of Dean(Coleford) which is, and always has been, classed as England, but they could speak Welsh and were proud of their Welsh heritage and would proabably have said they were both English and Welsh!!! In fact my great-great uncle, who moved to Yorkshire, still spoke Welsh there along with his neighbour Mr. Jones who came from South Wales. You will also find that the families in the Monmouth area have a mixture of both Welsh and English people.
From Slowhands' research it appears we may be connected but I will now look at Google Earth to see in which part of Pennsylvania, Houtzdale is situated. The saddest thing of all is that I lived in Washington D.C. in the later 1970s with a family where one of the people was of "Pennsylvania Dutch" origin. I travelled there often (to Lancaster County) to see her relatives and didn't realise the connection. Now having done a great deal of family history I am finding that other places in the USA, including "out West" where I visited also have family connections (some with the Forest of Dean people and some with the other side of my family) and I keep thinking "if only I had known then what I know now"...and what a small world it really is.