Fanny Vaughan (m Morgan) born Upper Forge

Fanny (Frances) Vaughan married Henry Morgan at Awre on 04 Aug 1833. She and Henry are found in the 1851 and 1861 censuses living in the Row at Whitecroft, she is in the 1871 census as a widow living at Johnson's, Phipps' Bottom, in the 1881 living near the Royal Oak pub, and in the 1891 census back in the Row next door to her daughter Rhoda. She disappears thereafter, presumably having died.

Calculated census birth years are inconsistent from decade to decade, and her birth could have been apparently anywhere between 1810 and 1820. A burial of Fanny Morgan at Parkend (resident at Whitecroft) on 05 Oct 1897 aged 56 requires a transcription error on the age to be plausible. Henry was buried at Parkend (resident at Whitecroft) on 19 Nov 1869 consistent with the census information above.

I have unsuccessfully sought birth or baptismal register information for Fanny or any information about her ancestors. Can anyone help please?

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Gloucestershire Baptism CD

Fanny VAUGHAN - 25 December 1814 - at Bream St James

Parents: Thos (occupation, Collier) & Elzth - address: Whitecroft

two siblings at Bream St James

Elizh - address Whitecroft, 13 July 1817
Eliza - address Forst, 26 March 1820

FOD records : Christening at Bream

Surname transcribed as VANGHORN (Fanny)

Christenings at Parkend St Paul

Ann VAUGHAN - 24 November 1822, parents Thomas (Coalminer) & Elizabeth - address Whitecroft

Charlotte VAUGHAN - 21 August 1825, ditto

Harriet VAUGHAN - 5 August 1832, ditto
Thomas VAUGHAN - 5 August 1832, ditto

Annis VAUGHAN - 5 July 1835 - ditto

1841 Census, Whitecroft (few doors away a family of PHIPPS)

Thomas VAUGHAN - 50 Collier, born in County
Elz - 40
Harriet - 12
Thomas - 2
Hannah - 6
John - 2

1851 Census, West Dean, Upper Row
VAUGHAN

Thomas - 60 Coal Miner, born Bristol
Elizabeth - 53 - born Lydney Parish
Harriett - 22 - born Whitecroft
Thomas 19 - Coalminer, born Whitecroft
Annah - 17 - born Whitecroft
John - 12 - born Whitecroft **

If you check the Gloucestershire BDM site, John VAUGHAN - 1839, Forest of Dean, Mother's maiden name - transcribed as HOOK

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd

FOD records, has a marriage at Lydney - 20 October 1810 - Thomas VAUGHAN and Elizabeth ROOK

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My mother used to say that there was a Fanny and a Henry Morgan in her family but I've never conclusively found who they were and how they were related (my mother thought they were some sort of cousins), there was also a Thomas Morgan who was definitely at Culham College, Oxford in 1854.(see previous postings)If you can shed any light as to who your Henry and Fanny Morgan were I would be most interested. The family I descend from were called Rook but I have recently learned they did have connections with the Vaughan family. The biggest problem I have had with the Morgans is that the surname is so common that it is hard to sort out who is who. They could possibly have been to the USA or emigrated there but this is only a very vague possibility.

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FOD records

Henry MORGAN married Fanny VAUGHN - 4 August 1833 - Awre - witnesses: James & Nehemiah KING

1861 Census, Whitecroft

MORGAN

Henry - 48 - Coalminer, West Dean
Fanny - 47
Henry - 26
Emma - 16
Elizabeth - 12
Rhoda - 9
Annis - 5
Samuel -1

Ancestry: HENERY MORGAN

1851 Census, West Dean, Lower Row

MORGAN

Henry - 39 - Coalminer, born Coleford
Fanny - 37 - born Upper Forge (nee VAUGHAN, mother nee ROOK)
Elizabeth - 13 - all born Whitecroft
Henery - 15
Fanny - 11
Sarah Ann - 7
Charlette - 5
Eliza - 3
Emma - 2

1841 Census, Dean Forest, Whitecroft

Henry MORGAN - 25 Miner
Frances - 25
Henry - 7
Elizabeth - 5
Frances - 2

Gloucestershire BMD

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/

If you search for under births - surname MORGAN, mother's maiden name VAUGHAN - Forest of Dean

Fanny 1839
Sarah Ann 1841
Charlotte 1844
Emma 1849

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Thank you so much, I think you have solved my mystery! I really do appreciate this as I had been going round and round in circles with it. If Fanny Vaughan's mother was Rook before she was married I am pretty certain these are the right people. You've made my day and I needed something to cheer me up as I am recovering from having been ill with flu! Once more thank you so much for this.
Also the family seem to talk about Royal Oak Day a lot and the Royal Oak Pub might also have a significance here.
Finally the Kings are a family which members of my family spoke of and I have an old letter which speaks of Mr and Mrs. King being visited by Thomas Rook.

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Elizabeth VAUGHAN (nee ROOK, c 1798) born Lydney.

possible ???

There is on FOD records, a Phillis ROOKE who died at Lydney on the 8 March 1843, age 74 c 1769

1841 Census, Lydney

Phills ROOKE - 73 - independent.

Baptism at Littledean, parents Thomas & Phillis ROOK

William 1801
Thomas 1804
John 1806
John 1809

FOD records

Thomas ROOKE (Widower) - this Parish Littledean
married
Phillis WILAGGS - the Parish of Flaxley
by LICENCE

3 September 1800

mark of Thomas WILCES and Mary WILCES

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As I understand it from the previous threads, Elizabeth Rook was born about 1798 but married in 1810. This would have made her only 12 at marriage. She does not appear to have had any children until 1814. Is it possible that there is a recording or transcription error here somewhere? Or have I got it all wrong?

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Back to earlier forum - Marriage Act 1929

previous to this, females could marry at 12 - males at 14 - with consent of parents

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/relati...

My x Grandmother was christened 23 November 1810 and married 3 May 1824

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http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=23597

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Which Elizabeth Rook are you looking at? I have Elizabeth Mary Stead who married Thomas Rook (who I now think is the son of Thomas Rook and Phyllis). This Elizabeth was definitely born in 1786 and married Thomas Rook on 21st and 22nd February 1813 (two weddings one RC the other C of E to make it legal). There are so many Elizabeths in this family that you might be thinking of another one? Please clarify and I'll see what I can find from my other records if this one isn't the one you have in mind.

IGNORE THIS I'VE LOOKED AT THE INFORMATION AND REALISE WHICH ELIZABETH YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. IT MUST BE THE FLU WHICH CONFUSED ME!!!!

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Thanks this is even more exciting and as appreciated as your last posting as my ancestor was Thomas Rook and I had found this Phyllis before and thought that these were the next generation back in my family tree. I am even more convinced you are right now!

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Phillis was Thomas Rook's second wife as he was a widower when he married her. There is a record of someone with his name being married to an Elizabeth who died in 1797 in Newnham. I think he already had some children to this wife when he married Phillis: they may have been Anne, another Thomas (who is the Thomas from whom I descend).
Possibly also a Miriam. There was a Susannah Rook(e) too who is somehow related. The latter was a witness at my Thomas' wedding.

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This link is getting long..... so probably will be locked

I have had a quick look at my Gloucestershire Marriage Index

Susanna ROOKE married Thomas BUBB - Cheltenham St Mary 12 August 1816 Banns

Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD

Henry BUBB christened at Cheltenham St Mary - 30 October 1816 - Thomas (occupation Surgeon) and Susanna - address Allstone

Sarah BUBB christened at Cheltenham St Mary - 27 January 1819 - Thomas (occupation Attorney's Clerk) and Susanna

They then moved to Prestbury (St Mary )

Frances Elizabeth BUBB - 19 August 1821, (Thomas - Surgeon) & Susannah

Mary Susanna BUBB - 11 january 1824 - address Hicks - parents ditto

Sarah ROOKE BUBB - 1 May 1825 - parents and occupation ditto

Rebecca NEALE BUBB - born 15 December 1827, christened 5 September 1830

1841 Census, Prestbury, Mill Lane

Thomas BUBB - 45 Publican (all born in County)
Susanna BUBB - 40
Henery BUBB - 20
Frances BUBB - 15
Sarah BUBB - 15

and

Henery ROOKE - 76 - Independent - born in County

1851 Census, Prestbury

Henry BUBB - 33 - Innkeepr, born Glos. Cheltenham
Susanna BUBB - mother - age 54, - Gentlewoman, born Prestbury

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Thank you for this, it seems to fit as she was still unmarried three years earlier when she was witness at Thomas's wedding. There is also the possibility of a Henry Rook who approximately fits this age. I have found two Henry Rooks before but was not sure whether they were definitely in the family tree.

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Thank you for your very fast response. I presume you had done the research previously!

The key is the seriously mistranscribed surname: I had searched the FoD family history website records with soundex enabled on Vaughan, but to no avail.

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Anne

No - I haven't research this before

Apart from checking the Gloucestershire Baptism Index CD from 1813.

FOD records

I just went through the baptism around that time - if you put the sign % (possibly with V%) in the surname box (this is listed under : Using The Search Form - Search Tips)- with christian name FANNY - this comes up with all the baptisms for that year, or either side plus/minus how ever many years you want to cover.

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The Surname has NOT been seriously mistranscribed, it is recorded with this spelling in both the parish register and the Bishops Transcripts. It was probably seriously misheard by the Vicar!!

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The vicar must indeed have been hard of hearing. Vaughan is a single syllable name which sounds remarkably different to Vang-horn!

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or not in tune with the Vorest tongue....

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Spellings weren't always standard in those days.

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Variations in the Spelling of a Surname
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=21797

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I suspect this is your Frances / Fanny

Name: Frances Morgan
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 71
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 15

Year: 1891
Month: Oct
Day: 2
Surname: MORGAN
Forenames: Frances
Residence: Whitecroft
Age_at_death: 31
Officiating_Minister: Jno. (sic) (John) Jos[ep]h Ebsworth (Vicar)
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P245 IN 1/30
Page_No: 69
Parish_Chapel: Parkend

1891 Upper Row Whitecroft
Fanny Morgan abt 1821 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire

1881
John Jones abt 1841 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Milson Jones abt 1865 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Thomas Jones abt 1867 Newland, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
John Jones abt 1869 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Frances Morgan abt 1811 Lydney Upper Forge, Gloucestershire, England Mother in Law West Dean, Gloucestershire

1871 Whitecroft
John Jones 29
Milson Jones 6
Thomas Jones 4
John Jones 2
Frances Morgan 55
George Dart 23
William Watkins 50

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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The one to rule out

Name: Fanny Morgan
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Year of Registration: 1897
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 56
District: Monmouth (1837-1939)
County: Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 10a

1891
Henry Morgan abt 1833 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Fanny Morgan abt 1843 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
Elisabeth Morgan abt 1880 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Emily Morgan abt 1883 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Edith Morgan abt 1885 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you for these responses which help to clarify the situation.

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Slowlands is right. I have just checked the register and the age has been mistranscribed, it is actually 71. Please raise a correction request.

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I too have an interest in Fanny Morgan nee Vaughan as she is my great great great grandmother. Her son Henry also married a Frances (Thomas) at Newnham on 25 August 1867. I think this Fanny Morgan could be the one who died aged 56 in October 1897. I was interested to note that you say Johnsons where she was living with her son-in- law on 1871 census is Phipps Bottom, I wondered where it was.

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From the above thread it would appear that you are right about the 2 Fanny Morgans.

Johnson's is somewhere near Phipps Bottom; if you look up people in Whitecroft on the 1871 census Johnson's is adjacent to Phipps Bottom, I think I recall deciding it was between Phipps Bottom and Pillowell level.

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Fanny Vaughan (m Morgan) born Upper Forge (General)