Redmarley or Redmarley D'Abitot?

Wondering if Redmarley and Redmarley D'Abitot are one and the same, or are they two different places? Thanks
Maureen

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They are both the same place. We left out the D'Abitot part in a number of the Parish Records as some were named Redmarley and others Redmarley D'Abitot and we needed to have a common name for all of them.

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I too have ancestors(Brace & Merrick) from Redmarley as we've always called it, although I've not visited the village since the 90's when my aunt passed away. Hence I've only recently learnt during my Family History researches that it's formally named Redmarley D'Abitot and has been since medieval times (see my separate post).
I've always assumed Redmarley and Redmarley D'Abitot to be one & the same.

However, while searching the internet I "discovered" another, different, Redmarley !. This is in Worcestershire just SW of Stourport on Severn.
The fact that until the 1930s "our" Redmarley was also part of Worcestershire, now Glos, can only perhaps add to the possible confusion. So while I'm not suggesting this or any other website is in error or should reconsider their use of the name Redmarley, I must urge researchers to be aware there are indeed two Redmarleys... which one is the "ghost" I do not know...

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Hello Jeff

My family are Merrick from Red Marley too. Have a feeling we may be related?

Regards
Ceri

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Hi Ceri, yes thats possible in a distant way, my mother was a Brace and there's Merrick in her line. That said I get the impression looking at Redmarley PRs there were only Braces or Merricks in the area back in the C19th !
I'll try and look it up more in a few weeks time.
Cheers "cousin" Jeff

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http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/RedmarleyDAbitot/index.html

Redmarley D'Abitot is a civil parish and village in the Forest of Dean district, Gloucestershire, England.
In addition to the village of Redmarley, the civil parish also includes the settlements of Lowbands, Haw Cross,
Playley Green, Kings Green and Durbridge. At the 2001 census the parish had a population of 705.

1870's gazateer
REDMARLEY-D'ABITOT, a village, a parish, and a sub-district, in Newent district; the village and the parish in Worcestershire, but most of the sub-district in Gloucestershire. The village stands 1 mile N of the river Leadon, at the boundary with Gloucestershire, and 5¾ S W by S of Ledbury r. station; and has a post-office, of the name of Redmarley, under Gloucester. The parish comprises 3, 778 acres.

Although now in Gloucestershire, Redmarley was in Worcestershire until 1931.

Often referred to by locals by its shorten name as Redmarley.

Photo of the village church - St Bartholomew

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/368540

Map

http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/frames.htm?mapAction=gaz&gazName=g&...

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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4646 views

Sometimes seen as Red Marley (?), is in Worcestershire ( i.e. well away from the Glos border) on towards the Abberley Hills and Stourport.

map

http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/frames.htm?mapAction=gaz&gazName=g&...

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Further to a recent thread re whether or not Redmarley and Redmarley D'Abitot is one and the same place, ("official" answer unfortuantely "no", see thread) I thought the following might be of interest to other researchers. I'm unsure as to whether it's truly a Forest of Dean village but hopefully this will be of interest to some. As a "true" Forester myself I'm "careful" with my cash, so will always search for free information wherever possible. Thankfully there is much available online for Redmarley D'Abitot, it's been named as such since Domesday times:
"Ridmarley Dabitot was so called from Geoffry de’Abetot a Descendant of Robert D’abetot Steward of the Household to King William the Conqueror & Brother to Urso D’abitot who was under the same King Sheriff of this County."

Presumably because of it's rich and long history, I have found various excellent and strongly recommended free-to-view internet resources regarding the village and it's ancient church St Bartholomew's, such as:

1. Incredibly extensive, seemingly complete & hugely interesting Parish Church Records transcriptions dating from 1542 right through to 1812 !. As a researcher of the Brace & Merrick families I've found this enormously fruitful as I hope others will too. The "D'Abitot" family line is still surviving within these records five centuries after their first Normans ancestors !.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wrag44/redmarley/redmarley.htm

2. Extensive Parish Church references including more recent memorial transcriptions are available at Wishful Thinking's Genuki:
http://www.wishful-thinking.org.uk/genuki/GLS/RedmarleydAbitot/contents.html

3. 19th Century Census Transcriptions are available at Gloucestershire Genuki:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/RedmarleydAbitot/index.html

4. "A Short History of Redmarley D'Abitot", 1928
http://www.redmarley.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ShortHistoryofRedmarley.pdf

Finally:
"It was usual for a witch to undergo 'trial by water', for it was believed that,as a form of baptism, the water would reject a disciple of the devil. The thumbs were tied crosswise to the opposite big toes, and the woman thrown into the pool. If she floated it was conclusive proof she was a witch, if she sank, she was innocent. The last recorded 'Trial by Water' was at Red Marley D'Abitot, a Worcestershire village before its transfer to Gloucestershire. William Lygon, the first Earl Beauchamp, was riding through his constituency in the 1820s, when he came upon a throng of excited rustics, and learnt that they were putting an alleged witch through the ordeal by water'. His horrified protest was resented and they were at great pains to assure him that everything was in proper order and according to traditional rules. Only by his prompt and unflinching assertion of authority as a County Justice was he able to save the wretched victim who, a few minutes later, would have demonstrated her innocence by drowning."
http://www.worcesterpeopleandplaces.com/articles/20050630211108.asp

Many thanks to all associated with the above referenced websites !

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Jefff

Really don't want to open a hornet's nest, but

To all intents Redmarley and Redmarley d'Abitot are one and the same, so long as the context is Gloucestershire / Forest of Dean :-)

however, I agree that there are two distinct places - Redmarley nr Stourport and "our" Redmarley near Newent.

If you caught a bus or took a taxi from Gloucester and asked for Redmarley , I'm 100% sure where you would be taken.

And in a similar way , I can see the possible challenge of search via Ancestry for a relative born in Redmarley - again context will help resolve conflicts ( I hope !)

regards
S

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Greetings Slowhands,
I agree entirely with your reasoning, views and sentiments, no hornets disturbed by you for sure. Please be assured it was not & is not my intention to stir anyone's nests, I'm sorry if I have done.

My standpoint & reasoning for (I thought) clarifying the thread is:

I had/have NO idea where in the world Maureen, the original poster, is located or her degree of local knowledge. In the few months I've been using your excellent forum I've read new posts from researchers from all over the country if not the world, some of whom clearly don't know the Forest geography as well as you or even I do, hence apparently "silly" mistakes are made for understandable reasons. In this instance I assumed Maureen wasn't a local, and that eitherway her question was entirely reasonable.
I suspected she might be about to make the same mistakes I've made when researching Redmarley, as I said it was a problematic surprise to my research when I found there was a Red Marley's Ghost as t'were...

It therefore seemed only right & proper for me to try and help you all to guide Maureen & any other potential Redmarley researchers past a possible stumbling point. I have already learnt this forum to be a hugely useful & important source of reference in it's own right, largely down to the great efforts of yourself and the other "senior" contributors. This fact, added to my personal belief in accuracy especially in a genealogy forum seen worldwide, made me think it reasonable to try & clarify the point; as a researcher of the "popular" Jones surname in the main I've learnt just how easy it is to follow false trails despite everyone's best efforts.

I tried hard to post with tact & diplomacy, sorry again if I've still managed to buck the trend. Please keep up the great work, we're all truly gratefull.

Cheers, Jefff

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The family of a friend of mine used to own the orchards at Redmarley, Great Witley. Forgetting the distances involved, there seems to be little likelihood of confusion to me, because as far as I recall the northern Redmarley is not a parish and therefore has no parish records.

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I wonder if there is a link between the two? Because I seem to have family moving from Redmarley Dábitot to Great Witley.

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Hi and welcome to the forum !

Yes there may be links twixt the two Redmarleys, but I've not researched the history of Redmarley Great Witley so don't know...
It may be pure coincidence, there are many reasons your ancestors may have moved there, perhaps following family, or their profession, etc - if you can give more info we may be able to make some links. Maybe the two places were "twinned", or whatever it was known as back then, because they shared the same unusual name ? Such a link would presumably encouraged commerce etc between them ?. Or maybe a wealthy landowner common to both places ?

I've found my grandfather, born into a long line of ag=labourers in Longhope, as a small child he moved with his parents and siblings to inner-city Liverpool for a while abt 1911, before the family returned to Longhope again. I've no idea why, seems an odd move ??

I've tried looking for similarities between the two Redmarleys using the Genuki website, but nothing obvious springs-out yet. However I do see the entry for Redmarley d'Abitot contains a link which incorrectly points to the other Redmarley at Great Witley. I imagine this is part-caused by both places being part of Worcestershire in the past. This error by a respected reference site amused me, as I was myself confused by the two similar placenames when I first started FH researches.

In the main this is an especially informative page even by the Genuki site's own high standards, with so many useful reference links. The first one under "Description and Travel" is especially good, as it gives images of an online book "Noake's Worcestershire" from 1868. I'm a little surprised that an old book like this doesn't use the villages's full and formal name "D'Abitot", especially seeing as the name dates back to Domesday times. In fact it doesn't even mention a family that played such an important role in the history of the village, but then again judging by Noake's opinion of the "deluded disciples of that visionary leader", it seems that Noake has his own views of life, which maybe considered dated nowadays, as pointed out on the notes on the home page of the book's link.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/RedmarleyDAbitot

Is it possible your ancestors were part of the Chartist movement, ref Fergus O'Connor as mentioned in this link for Great Witley Redmarley ?
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/GreatWitley/Gaz1868

Altho now I'm thinking this is a case of confusion on the Genuki site, as other references including the Noake's book firmly put O'Connor's Chartists at Lowbands, Redmarley D'Abitot, and NOT at Redmarley near Great Witley, Stourport. I've raised this apparent anomaly with the Genuki site.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Land_Company#Lowbands

?????

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"I've found my grandfather, born into a long line of ag=labourers in Longhope, as a small child he moved with his parents and siblings to inner-city Liverpool for a while abt 1911, before the family returned to Longhope again. I've no idea why, seems an odd move ??"

Perhaps they Inherited land? Or had family they wished to return to?

My lot "Brooke" were connected to Lowbands, a common, "Forty Green."
I am trying to connect the dots, as I have DNA confirmed matches to family in Bromsberrow.

Ill keep looking.

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I lived in Great Witley for a number of years and read all available histories about it as some of my Worcestershire ancestors lived there. The village, including Red Marley, was owned by a succession of wealthy landowners including Foleys, culminating in the Dudleys, who entertained royalty at Witley Court, and finally a Mr. Smith who owned the Court when it burned down dramatically in the 1930s and I found no reference to Chartism. The confusion is frequent between the 2 Red Marleys in Worcestershire.

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Hi,
many thanks for that. I'd never heard of Chartism until this week so have been reading up a little on it all, and like you I've not found anything linking it to the Great Witley Redmarley. I have been very impressed with the good folk who run the Genuki website, as soon as I raised a query with the site regarding the mention of Chartism at Great Witley, one of their people got back to me and we've been discussing the whole issue. The website's pages have now been amended to hopefully ensure no ambiguity or confusion.
It's interesting that the old Gazetteer they used (from 1868) appears to be itself confused and has included the mention of F.O'Connor (aka Chartists) in the wrong Redmarley, as well as saying Lawband instead of Lowbands. That geographical error surprised me as I always thought of the Victorians being extra careful to get their facts right. The amended webpage is here.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/GreatWitley/Gaz1868

Having said that, it doesn't help that this very interesting old Worcestershire book written by Noakes was also written in 1868, like the Gazetteer, and to add further possible confusion just uses the term Redmarley when discussing Redmarley D'Abitot, despite the D'Abitot name being associated with the village since Domesday. This is the same book from the link in the excellent Genuki pages.
http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~fortroyal/NoakeGuide/308.html

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