Amanda Annie Gething b.1858

I'm trying to trace my great-grandmother before her marriage. She was born in Newport, Monmouthshire, according to censuses from 1881 onwards. She eloped to get married at Awre Parish Church in 1875 to George William Turner, a cooper, on 20th Sept. They both lied about their ages and used their middle names. Annie gives her father's name as George Gething, and though she says he is a gardener on her marriage certificate, we do not believe this. The family story is that she came from a well-to-do family and was well-educated, in Cheltenham, travelling there by horse and carriage. After being told of her secret marriage, her furious family cut her off totally and allegedly tore out her record from the church christening register. I can find no record of her in the 1861 and 1871 censuses or of her birth, but know that she died in Newark, Notts in 1926, aged 68.

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Hi Gill and welcome to this great site.
Starting with the marriage, by searching this site's Parish Records' section gives:

Record_ID: 1302
Entry_Number: 235
Year: 1875
Month: Sep
Day: 20
Grooms_Surname: TURNER
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age: 22
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Brewers Man
Grooms_Residence: Blakeney
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Turner
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Cooper
Brides_Surname: GETHING
Brides_Forenames: Annie
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Blakeney
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Gething
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Gardener
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Sign
Witness_1: William Holder
Witness_2: Susan Holder
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: W. W. Wait Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 118
Parish_Chapel: Awre
Soundex_Groom: T656
Soundex_Bride: G352

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Thanks Jefff,
That fits in perfectly with the copy of the marriage certificate. The groom lived in Cheltenham, according to the censuses, and that's where they settled down before moving on to Burton-on-Trent, and finally Newark. But as for Amanda Annie - who were her family? Can they really have eradicated her from all records?

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Hi again Gill, sorry about being called away, parental duty !. Meantime I'm glad to see the ever efficient Slowhands has done what I foolishly forgot to do first, namely search this forum itself. In my opinion this feature of the site is as usefull as the huge PR database, shame I don't practice what I've preached and actually remember to do it ! Once again it seems your line has already been thoroughly traced, hopefully you'll find some "new" cousins.

Thanks to this I've also discovered the great Caerleon & Newport history websites, very useful for my research too, thanks Slowhands et al !

As an aside I see in Kellys 1848 Trade Directory for Newport, it lists George Gething and George Gething Junior, both as Ship Owners & Merchants, living at Cardiff Road. Is this the wealthy & powerfull family you mention?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/newport1848.html
See page 64-65

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Hi Jefff,
The Kelly's directory for 1848 is most interesting. I hadn't come across that before. You feel that a wealthy family called Gething has a high chance of being in there. And there are two called George. If only the younger one was married in time for 1858! If he were a father of an illegitimate child, that scandal would be swept under the carpet in those days, but then she wouldn't have taken on his surname, surely? Very tricky!

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Good morning Gill,
apologies as I havn't followed all the line thro as you have, I had assumed from these threads that she was definitely descended from George, sorry if thats wrong. I also thought the thread suggested a Annie Gething was descended from James Gething, but perhaps thats her mother ?. Again sorry for not paying proper attention, it was a hard day here yesteray !.

Reading the Directory it struck me that of the four? Gethings listed there was indeed a James, a "Haulier", who I thought may have been her true forefather, but is presumably not on the same scale of wealth & social standing as the Georges?.
To be honest if I were in her shoes, and was born a Gething, perhaps its easier & safer to keep your true surname but "accidentally" link it to a different and altogether "better" family, the George Gethings ?. Such a con trick might give her social advantages when she was in Glostershire, especially with bankers say, where George would probably be known of by his hopefully sound business reputation but not in sufficient detail for her to be found out as an imposter.

If she had been base-born(I love that phrase!) to one of the wealthy Georges, yes I expect they would try and keep it quiet but maybe not to the dramatic & cruel extent the novelists and your family tales suggest. Perhaps they were kindly decent gents who only found out about her when she was older and tried to minimise the scandal by paying her or her mother to go away, ie Glostershire ?. Perhaps it's worth looking up the Census's for these Georges, did they have any pretty young Miss Gethings working in their households I wonder... What do you know about her husband William's history, where did they meet ?. I presume he moved to Burton because of the brewing trade, or ?. What about the wedding witnesses?. There might be some clues there ?.

Of course this is all supposition, but in essence no, I don't think it unlikely she would think it a good idea to keep her real surname yet pretend she was part of a wealthy family.

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Hi Jefff,
I'm touched you have put so much thought into your reply. I have also of course thought and thought about it all. Amanda Annie Turner (married name) died in Newark, Notts in 1926, so even my dad never met her. It was my grandma, Annie's daughter-in-law, who told me about her. My grandma (Irene) worked as a domestic servant from age 13 in some big houses and so was brought up to have a huge respect for people of higher social class - that's how it was then! To her Amanda Annie was well-educated, but then my grandma only received a basic education as the daughter of a farm worker. Like you say, maybe Amanda Annie embroidered her story. The fact she used her second name on her wedding certificate, as did the groom, made me wonder if she also used her father's second name.
I had no real reason to believe she was illegitimate. I think the fact she ran away to get married to someone her father disapproved of was what caused the rift, and apparently the family took it very badly. I've thought, was her first name REALLY Amanda, since she's untraceable before she married: no birth record, no census entries. But against this, they called their first child Amanda Annie Turner, parents often naming a child after themselves in those days; also she reverts to her full name in the 1901 and 1911 censuses, like she's come out of hiding, if you like - in 1881 and 1891 she and her husband were still using their second names. So I'm convinced her name really was Amanda and that she did indeed marry beneath her status and that she was afraid of her father finding her.

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http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=25893

Name: Amanda A Turner
Birth Date: abt 1858
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1926
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Newark
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 477

1901
George K Twiner abt 1856 Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England Head Newark, Nottinghamshire
Amanda Annie Twiner abt 1858 Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Newark, Nottinghamshire
Amanda Annie Twiner abt 1878 Cls, Cheltenham Daughter Newark, Nottinghamshire
Thomas William Twiner abt 1884 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Newark, Nottinghamshire
Mary Twiner abt 1886 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Daughter Newark, Nottinghamshire
Cecil Henry Twiner abt 1890 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Newark, Nottinghamshire
William Twiner abt 1892 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Newark, Nottinghamshire
Herbert Twiner abt 1894 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Newark, Nottinghamshire
Florence Twiner abt 1898 Burton On Trent, Staffordshire, England Daughter Newark, Nottinghamshire

1891
William Turner abt 1856 Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England Head Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Ann Turner abt 1858 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Wife Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Annie Turner abt 1878 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Emmie Turner abt 1880 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Ethel Turner abt 1882 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Thomas Turner abt 1884 Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Clara Turner abt 1884 Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England Daughter Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Mary Turner abt 1886 Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England Daughter Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Cecil Turner abt 1890 Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England Son Burton Extra, Staffordshire
Alice Turner abt 1814 Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England Mother Burton Extra, Staffordshire

1881
William Turner abt 1856 Gloster, Gloucestershire, England Head Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Annie Turner abt 1856 Newport Wales, Monmouth, Wales Wife Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Annie Turner abt 1878 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Emily Turner abt 1880 Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thanks for the information, Slowhands. I had found the two George Gethings (father and son)at Springfield in Newport via Genes Reunited. My quandary is: the older one is too old to have a child in 1858 (or rather his wife is) and the younger one is still unmarried after my great-grandmother was born in 1858. So could either be the father?
It's extra frustrating that according to a book I own, there are many "holes" in the 1861 census, where I'm looking for a 3 year old girl. By 1871 she could be away at boarding school, though nothing shows up on the census.

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On the 1911 census (for whatever reason) - Amanda Annie TURNER'S place of birth, is listed as Not Known...

33 Lovers Lane
Newark
Notts

TURNER

George William - married (35 years) - age 55 Brewery Cooper, born Glos Gloucester
Amanda Annie - wife - 53 - place of birth, not known
Thomas William - son - single age 27, Malster, born Staffs Burton on Trent
Emmie Louisa - daughter - single, age 31, born Glos. Cheltenham
William - son - single - 19 - general labourer, born Staffs, Burton on Trent
Herbert - son - single - 17 - Iron Moulder, born Staffs, Burton on Trent
Florence - daughter - 13 - born Staffs, Burton on Trent

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Thanks. Yes that is my great-grandmother. My granddad is the son called William, incidentally. Amanda died in 1926 in Newark, Notts, her death register entry naming her as Amanda A. Turner. I have found a lot of birth records for more recent people in my family (like my dad) are not logged on Genes Reunited. I'm not sure why. He does have a birth certificate. These omissions have been really frustrating because it's so disabling when you're trying to research back!

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