Whereabouts of Lydley

Trying to trace a child born in 1883 in Lydley, Gloucestershire, the birthplace given 1891 Shropshire Census.
Have tried Google, various levels of the local counci (Yorkley, Lydney), BT, old maps etc. Google produced about half a dozen references to it (with many repeats) but tend to confuse Lyldley Hayes (Shropshire) with Lydley, Gloucestershire (originally Monmouthshire).(Put 'Lydley' into Google then convince it not to search for Lydney!)
Have telephoned two companies purporting to be based in Lydley Business/industial park but both seem to use this address for administrative purposes whilst their businesses are based elsewere.
Cannot find any exact refence or location. All help appreciated.

Sam

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Are you able to share details of the person or persons you are tracing?

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Thank you both for responding.

Paul - I'm afraid that the issue I am dealing with is potentially very sensitive and I don't feel I have a right to discss it with you.
However, I can explain what my problne is.
As M P Griffiths's reply shows (a) the Census entry gives the name of the child as BUTE but the birth (and shopshire Census Transcript) give the name Butt. (b) the birth record only provides the administrative district (i.e. Chepstow) but the Census record gives a specific - Lydley.
Problem -- I can't pursue this until I know where Lydley is hence which parish it lies in.

Hope this makes the situation clearer

Sam

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1911 England Census RG14PN16958 RG78 PN1047 RD368 SD2 ED25 SN42

Cannock Wood Nr Rugeley

Alexandere Startin - Head - 42 - Married - Gentleman's Servant Indoor - Cannock Wood - British
Lucy Mary Startin - Wife - 45 - Married - 17 - 3 - 2 - 1 - Cannock Wood - British
Henry Harold Startin - Son - 16 - Single - Gardener Domestic - Cannock Wood - British
Lawarence Gerald Startin - Son - 7 - Cannock Wood - British
William Ashton Butt - Boarder - 28 - Single - School Teacher (Elemy) - County Council - Gloucestershire, Lydney

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Really grateful to MP Giffiths and Paul. Between your contributions I now have somewhere 'to go'.
The only thing I still don't know is the whereabouts of Lydley. Because of help received hee this has changed from being required informationto something that is just bugging me because I've never before failed to find a place I was looking for.
All I can offer in return is that I am researching the Pontesbury branch of the Ashtons of Trefeglwys, Montgomeryshire of which William Ashton Butt is a member.
If I can help in any way contact me here or via the Powys network

Regards

Sam

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Sam, Have you considered that this is simply a misprint for Lydney. In those days illiteracy rates were quite high and census takers and others (including vicars) simply wrote down what they thought they heard. Lydney was in the Chepstow area for registration at that time. I grew up in Lydney and even in those days would find envelopes would arrive spelled all sorts of ways (even letters that had gone to Australia, Sydney, and back). The name of the person was spelled wrong so it is likely the town was as well.

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'The only thing I still don't know is the whereabouts of Lydley'

The place name Lydley appears to be derived from the 1891 census return. The 1911 census return clearly states the birthplace as Lydney. I would suggest that the 1891 census enumerator has made an error and that the place name should have been Lydney on the 1891 return.

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Copied from: Lydney Grammar School Newsletter c1973.pdf
Page 21

Downloads - Miscellaneous Section
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/resources/documents-and-articles

Civil Dignitaries

The late W. A. Butt was a County Councillor for many years and a Governor of L.G.S. His brother Charles and the late Charles Steele was amongst the very first pupils.

UPDATE 29/6/11 I suspect this is William Andrew BUTT from Woolastone has both a father and brother named Charles

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Admin

This is quite new to me - and complicates the business of tracing his life.

Born in Monmouthshire/Glos, a cousin of his told me (in the 1970s) that 'Willie' was raised in Pontesbury by his grandfather (i.e. William Hamlet Ashton's father) and this is possibly (but only possibly) given some credence by his appearance there in the 1891 Census. He could, of course, have been visiting.
When he was older he taught in Staffs, got married in Chesterfield, but continued to teach in Staffs until he retired.
I'm wondering whether your contribution means he was a County Councillor in Staffs concurrently with being a Governor of LGS, or whether these were sequential.

Apart from this information giving me another headache [ :) ] I'm grateful to you for giving me another aspect of his life to explore.

Regards

Sam

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Sam

replied off line with some useful information (probate etc.) to use as you wish.

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? (as transcribed)

1891 Census, Pontesbury, Shropshire

Williams ASHTON - Miner, age 67, born Llanwnnog, Montgomery
Mary ASHTON - 67 - born Wrescham, Denby
Mary ASHTON - daughter - 35 - born Pontesbury, Shropshire
Edw ASHTON - son - 33 - born ditto
William F BUTE (looks like an 'A' - not 'F') - Grandson, age 8, born Lydley, Gloucestershire
Gladys ASHTON - Grandaughter - age 3 - born Birmingham

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Paul

Thanks for your last info. I attemnpted to reply off-list but the system kept returning an 'Error' for the email address.
In addition to the three siblings you identified there are five more ans informatin about them is not too difficult to run down.
It was the Butt problem that had run into the buffers.

Thanks again for your help.

Sam

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1861
William Ashton abt 1824 Llaweonag, Montgomeryshire, Wales Head Pontesbury, Shropshire
Mary Ashton abt 1824 Denbighshire, Wales Wife Pontesbury, Shropshire
Thomas Ashton abt 1853 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire
Elizabeth Ashton abt 1854 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Daughter Pontesbury, Shropshire
Mary Ann Ashton abt 1856 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Daughter Pontesbury, Shropshire
John Ashton abt 1857 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire
Edward Ashton abt 1858 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire
Eliza Jane Ashton abt 1860 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Daughter Pontesbury, Shropshire
Elizabeth Edwards abt 1787 Denbighshire, Wales Mother-in-Law Pontesbury, Shropshire

1871
William Ashton 47
Mary Ashton 47
Thomas Ashton 18
John Ashton 14
Edward Ashton 13
Eliza Ashton 11
William Ashton 9
Margaret Ashton 6

1881
William Ashton abt 1824 Caersws, Montgomeryshire, Wales Head Pontesbury, Shropshire
Mary Ashton abt 1824 Minera, Denbighshire, Wales Wife Pontesbury, Shropshire
Edward Ashton abt 1858 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire

Name: William Ashton Butt
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1883
Registration district: Chepstow ( covers Lydney)
Inferred County: Gloucestershire, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 20

1891
Williams Ashton abt 1824 Llanwnnog, Montgomeryshire, Wales Head Pontesbury, Shropshire
Mary Ashton abt 1824 Wrescham Denby Wife Pontesbury, Shropshire
Mary Ashton abt 1856 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Daughter Pontesbury, Shropshire
Edw Ashton abt 1858 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire
William F Bute abt 1883 Lydley, Gloucestershire, England Grandson Pontesbury, Shropshire
Gladys Ashton abt 1888 Birmingham Granddaughter Pontesbury, Shropshire

1901
William Ashton abt 1824 Llanwynno, Monmouthshire, Wales Head Pontesbury, Shropshire
Edward Ashton abt 1858 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Son Pontesbury, Shropshire
Margaret Jones abt 1865 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Granddaughter Pontesbury, Shropshire
William Ashton abt 1883 Pontesbury, Shropshire, England Grandson Pontesbury, Shropshire

1911
BUTT WILLIAM ASHTON M 1883 28 Cannock Staffordshire {born Lydney}

Name: William A Butt ??
Spouse Surname: Mary E Heeley
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1922
Registration district: Chesterfield
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume Number: 7b
Page Number: 1929

Name: Wiliam A Butt
Birth Date: abt 1883
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1957
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 649

23rd June 1957 late of Redmoor Inn Gentleshore nr Rugeley
Estate £1,800
Mother Elizabeth BUTT of Woolaston

Rugeley
Hayfield Hill, Gentleshore
WS15 4RU

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1861
Cornelious Butt abt 1828 Dorset, England Head East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Butt abt 1827 Wollastone, Gloucestershire, England Wife East Dean, Gloucestershire
Cornelious Butt abt 1859 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son East Dean, Gloucestershire
Ellen Butt abt 1857 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Butt abt 1860 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter East Dean, Gloucestershire

Year: 1864
Month: May
Day: 1
Parents_Surname: BUTT
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Woolaston
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: William Somerset Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Feb 7 1860
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 64
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston

1871
Cornelus Butt 44
Elizabeth Butt 44
Cornelus Butt 12
Elizabeth Butt 10
Jacob Butt 8
Charles Butt 4
Mary Butt 2

1881
Cornelius Butt abt 1828 Kington Magna, Dorset, England Head Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Butt abt 1828 Woollaston, Gloucestershire, England Wife Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Butt abt 1861 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Charles Butt abt 1866 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Son Woolaston, Gloucestershire
Mary Jane Butt abt 1871 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Woolaston, Gloucestershire

Name: Ellen Elizabeth Ashton
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1887
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 13

Year: 1889
Month: Sep
Day: 14
Grooms_Surname: POWELL
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labo<u>rer
Grooms_Residence: Woolaston
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Powell
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labo<u>rer
Brides_Surname: BUTT
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: 28
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Woolaston
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Butt
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Cornelius
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labo<u>rer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she Signs
Witness_1: Charles Butt
Witness_2: Alice Butt
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: William Somerset Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P376 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 135
Parish_Chapel: Woolaston

Year: 1890
Month: Sep
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: POWELL
Child_Forenames: Thomas John
Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Alvington
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: William Allen
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P12 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 56
Parish_Chapel: Alvington

1891
Thomas Powell abt 1865 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Head Alvington, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Powell abt 1861 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Wife Alvington, Gloucestershire
Ellen Elizabeth Butt abt 1888 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Stepdaughter Alvington, Gloucestershire
Thomas John Powell abt 1890 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Son Alvington, Gloucestershire

Year 1891
Month Dec
Day 13
Parents Surname POWELL
Child Forenames Edith Elizabeth
Fathers Forenames Thomas
Mothers Forenames Elizabeth
Mothers Surname
Residence Alvington
Occupation Haulier
Officiating Minister W. Townsend
Event Baptism
Memoranda Born 9 Nov. 1891.
Notes
Register Reference P12 IN 1/5
Page Number 57
Parish Chapel Alvington

1901
Ellen E Powell abt 1886 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Servant Hewelsfield, Gloucestershire

1901
John Powell abt 1824 Cam Dursley, Gloucestershire, England Head Alvington, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Powell abt 1826 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Wife Alvington, Gloucestershire
Thomas Powell abt 1860 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Son Alvington, Gloucestershire
Edith Powell abt 1892 Alvington, Gloucestershire, England Granddaughter Alvington, Gloucestershire
Lily Miles abt 1893 Cross Keys, Monmouthshire, Wales Visitor Alvington, Gloucestershire

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FOD records

Christening at Lydney Primitive Methodist - 28 March 1889

Ellen Elizabeth BUTT (William's sister)

mother's Forenames: Elizabeth

Residence: Woolaston

occupation: Servant

Officiating Minister: John JENKINS

Baptism

Born August 25th 1887

(see 1881 Census, for William H ASHTON in Westbury on Severn) age 19)

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Name: Ellen Elizabeth Ashton
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1887
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 13

probably her later marriage :-

Year: 1913
Month: Mar
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: SCRIVENS
Grooms_Forenames: George Henry
Grooms_Age: 25
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Hewelsfield
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Scrivens
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William Henry
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Brides_Surname: POWELL
Brides_Forenames: Ellen Elizabeth
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Hewelsfield
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Powell
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns: [not stated]
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: William Henry Townshend
Witness_2: Elizabeth Woodland
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: P. H. Fernandez Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P175 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 137
Parish_Chapel: Hewelsfield

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On the 1871 Census, Shropshire, Pontesbury, William ASHTON has a Son, William aged 9 c1862

1871 Census, Shropshire, Pontesbury

ASHTON

William - 47 Lead Miner, born Montgomery, LLanwnog
Mary - 47 - born Denbigh, Wrexham
Thomas - 18 - all born Pontesbury
John - 14
Edward - 13
Eliza - 11
William - 9
Margaret - 6

1881 Census, Westbury on Severn

High Street

William H ASTON - Boarder, unmarried, age 19, Assistant Ord. Survey, born Shropshire, Pontesbury

1891 Census, Hemsworth, Yorkshire

William ASHTON - age 29 unmarried - Civil Service, Ordnance Branch born Pontesbury, Shropshire

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Well Slow Hands, Paul, M.P and Bob --- that little lot has sorted me out!! :))

Overall my researches have been going well - except in the case of William Butt. So, I decided to turn most of my attention to him hence my appearance on this list.
He was my father's half-brother but they never met, and I wanted to know about him.

When I posted my first message I couldn't have imagined how generous you would be with your time or how much information I would end up with.

Thanks again

Regards

Sam

Postcript: Bob (thanks for your interest) and Paul... Yes, I also concluded that the confusion about Lydley probably is down to spelling errors or the enumerator's mishearing.

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Slowhands

Am still having trouble with this list's spam filter. It won't let me send individual messages for some reason, so I Posting instead - thanks for providing so much information.

Sam

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William Andrew Butt was a shopkeeper in Woolaston and Lydney.

He lived at the Laurels, Woolaston .

His shop was one of the village stores in Woolaston ,opposite the junior school gates .

The Lydney shop was in Newerne Street , roughly where the betting shop and Tony Box,s

TV / electrical shop is.

There are two gravestones in Woolaston old churchyard ,on the left of the path going up

to the church .

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Year: 1896
Month: Jan
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: BUTT
Child_Forenames: William Andrew
Fathers_Forenames: Charles
Mothers_Forenames: Alice Martha
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Alvington
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: Thomas Lowe
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Dec[embe]r 19th /95
Notes:
Register_Reference: D2598/4/2
Page_Number: 57
Parish_Chapel: Lydney Primitive Methodist

1901
Charles Butt abt 1866 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Head Woolastone, Gloucestershire
Alice Butt abt 1870 Alvington, Gloucestershire, England Wife Woolastone, Gloucestershire
Charles Butt abt 1889 Alvington, Gloucestershire, England Son Woolastone, Gloucestershire
Gertrude Butt abt 1891 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Woolastone, Gloucestershire
Ethel Butt abt 1893 Alvington, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Woolastone, Gloucestershire
William Butt abt 1896 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Son Woolastone, Gloucestershire
Gertrude Webb abt 1873 Alvington, Gloucestershire, England Sister-in-Law Woolastone, Gloucestershire
George Hayward abt 1829 Woolaston, Gloucestershire, England Uncle Woolastone, Gloucestershire

Name: William Andrew Butt
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1895
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1969
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Forest of Dean
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 1059

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Whereabouts of Lydley (General)