Mariner marriages (General)
by eromdap 
, Thursday, October 13, 2011, 22:15 (4786 days ago)
I have been researching the Viggors (and Moxley and Bowen) families many of whom were mariners or married mariners from the Chapel Hill/Tintern Abbey area and initially discovered many of their marriages were tricky to find. I have recently discovered they were married in Bristol even though they were baptised locally. Is this an occupational or family tradition?
Mariner marriages
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, October 14, 2011, 00:05 (4786 days ago) @ eromdap
Doesn't it depend, as nowadays, as to the bride's home parish ?. Or maybe there's a dedicated Mariner's Chapel in Bristol, were they all married at the same one, perhaps at the quayside ? Please advise which chapel.
Sailors are traditionally an ultra superstitious bunch especially where women (on ships) are concerned, perhaps this is part of the reasoning ?.
Recommended Maritime Website
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, October 14, 2011, 00:13 (4786 days ago) @ Jefff
I've found this website excellent on all things nautical, and the site owner Bob Sanders helpful too. Maybe your answer's there somewhere ?.
Mariner marriages
by eromdap , Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 22:35 (4781 days ago) @ Jefff
Had a proper look through and it seems the marriages were all to mariners and that the brides didn't get to marry in their home parish. I'm not sure which church as the IGI only states Bristol. However, one of the Viggors was noted as marrying at St Augustine-The-Less, which appears to have been related to Bristol Cathedral. I don't know if this was perhaps dedicated in some way to mariners. I shall have to do some more delving!
Mariner marriages, St Augustine The Less, Bristol
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, October 18, 2011, 23:31 (4781 days ago) @ eromdap
A quick "Google" has shown many posts on various FH Forums discussing marriages of Mariners at this Church, the few discussions I've read give no clues or even discussion as to why this particular Church. This article about the Church is interesting, it shows it was of medieval origin, important enough to became Bristol's first "Cathedral" way back in 1542.
http://www.churchcrawler.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bristol4/augless.htm
This was very much the time of famous Bristol sailor/explorer John Cabot (or as I've just found Giovanni Caboto, born in Italy !), and the start of Bristol's real importance in the nautical world. I've seen no suggestion at all that St Augustine The Less is of particular importance to mariners, and it's my opinion that its essentially a case of mathematical probability; as high numbers of the local people were associated with the sea trades, and that St Augustine was for many the senior Church/Cathedral in Bristol, so it's reasonable to find the two apparently closely related. Perhaps more so to outsiders who might reasonably but perhaps incorrectly assume the Cathedral of Bristol is "the" place for English and particularly West Country mariners to marry.
I've had a quick look at potted histories of various Bristol churches & chapels and it seems the one most likely to be linked to seafarers & merchants is St Mary at Redcliffe in the City centre overlooking the River.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary_Redcliffe
This states "The first church .. was built in Saxon times, as the port of Bristol first began. The present building is probably the fourth or fifth church that has been built on this site.
In medieval times, St. Mary Redcliffe, sitting on a red cliff above the River Avon, was a sign to seafarers, who would pray in it at their departure, and give thanks there upon their return. The church was built and beautified by Bristol's wealthy merchants, who paid to have masses sung for their souls and many of whom are commemorated there. "
The present spire is amost 100m high and the tallest building in Bristol !
I hope this is of interest and helps with your query.
Marriages in BRISTOL
by m p griffiths , Friday, October 14, 2011, 07:26 (4785 days ago) @ eromdap
Some of my family marriages were in Bristol, although the couples came from Gloucestershire. The Local Researcher used at the time said, and I quote.
'Don't worry that the marriages were in Bristol. An awful lot of Glos. people went to Bristol to marry or were living there as single people and working there at the time of their marriage'.
As your family were Mariners, that probably worked out of Bristol Dock.
Marriages in BRISTOL
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, October 14, 2011, 13:35 (4785 days ago) @ m p griffiths
Perhaps it's because Bristol was the County town of Gloucestershire#, during the C16th it was second most important Port in England, John Cabot et al. Until the early C19th and the decline of the slave trade plus the rise of Liverpool, Bristol was still a very important and world renowned English seaport, so maybe there was some social/professional standing to be gained with being associated with the port, especially for mariners.
# Almost completely irrelevant I know, even from 1974-1996 when Bristol was in it's own new "County" of Avon, and is now a separate "Borough" in it's own right, Bristol is still the headquarters for Gloucestershire County Cricket Club, despite them enjoying far better support when playing at Gloster & Cheltenham. If it's that important in a game of sticks & balls then imagine how it must have been considered to mariners of old !!
Marriages in BRISTOL
by selbyfamily , Friday, October 14, 2011, 16:35 (4785 days ago) @ Jefff
I think it is a misconception that Bristol was ever in Gloucestershire (someone may prove me wrong!). It received a Royal Charter in 1155 and was granted county status in 1373 and was the City and County of Bristol. I worked for the City and County in the 1960s, later for Avon and then for Bristol City Council when Avon was devolved and it returned to its City and County Status.
Sheila
Marriages in BRISTOL
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, October 14, 2011, 16:47 (4785 days ago) @ selbyfamily
Ooops !! Egg on face !
Yes Sheila you are correct; I've just returned from a trip to the library where among other things I looked into Bristol history a bit more (typical, only last week I returned a book of Gloucestershire history that I've renewed several times over many months). Sadly for my self-esteem you posted before I could correct mine. Ah well ladies first of course.
That said I'm a fan of old maps, I'm looking at an 1825 Samuel Lewis County map on the wall that clearly shows Bristol as the largest city within the County, albeit only just inside the border from Somersetshire as it was then. This same map has four separate "island outposts" of Gloucestershire within what is now Warwickshire & Wiltshire....
I must admit my view is somewhat distant and oldfashioned, having been away from the County since the 80s. I guess I've been confused (not difficult !) by my always following the "local" County Cricket side as per my reference earlier.
Apologies for misleading anyone, thanks Sheila for being so diplomatically polite in your post.
Marriages in BRISTOL
by peteressex , Friday, October 14, 2011, 17:41 (4785 days ago) @ Jefff
www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_page.jsp?p_id=843 may help. So might www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/Bristol/index.html. Or not. Between them they correctly quote the position in 1679, 1830, and 1887 as putting most of Bristol in Gloucestershire for various purposes. Unfortunately they also quote incorrect data.
It is necessary to distinguish geographical counties from postal areas (now no longer necessary because we have postcodes) and from administrative areas including administrative counties and county boroughs or other municipalities such as "city and county of...."
Bristol was created the early equivalent of a County Borough in 1373, and some say this is what made it a city, but you couldn't then be a city unless you had a cathedral. Until the administrative county of Avon was created in 1975, Bristol thus had its own civic status, but it was divided for geographical purposes between Gloucestershire, where the majority lay, and Somerset. That's how Gloucestershire's "county ground" comes to be in Bristol. It was not unusual, and it still isn't, to find a river forming a county boundary, and the Bristol Avon was no exception.
It threw me for a while when I found an ancestor's address listed on a foreign website as "Clifton, Gloucester." It meant Gloucestershire. Unhelpfully, the Cliston Suspension Bridge joined Gloucestershire and Somerset. Confusion is unsurprising. In the same way, before the creation of the London County Council in the late 19th century, counties such as Middlesex (which no longer exists administratively at all, but does postally)and Surrey ran right up to the City. That's how Middlesex CCC came to have its home at Lord's, and how the Surrey Docks were so named, whereas now they are both in London. Middlesex Guildhall is still so called, right there opposite Big Ben, but has no civic function, whilst Surrey persists in having its County Hall in Kingston-upon-Thames, which is in London administratively but Surrey postally. Ancestry researchers have probably shared my faintly amusing experience of finding fazed websites listing Gloucestershire people as having been born at "Strand, Middlesex" and in "London, Somerset." Before the National Archives at Kew (London, formerly Surrey) came into existence, the national records of births, marriages and deaths were kept at Somerset House in the Strand in London which was formerly in Middlesex. Bizarre conflicts between geography and genealogy continue to ensue because certificates are misread.
Quite apart from all that, if you ask people from Bristol where they were born, you are unlikely to hear Gloucestershire, Somerset or Avon in the answer. It will be "I'm a Bristolian."