Land called Stony Stile - where is it? (General)
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Friday, November 04, 2011, 13:13 (4775 days ago)
I am looking for some local information please. My 8 x great-grandfather's will, (Arthur Pitchard), mentions a piece of land called Stony Stile (I'm guessing the spelling would now be Stoney Stile). Arthur died in Colford in 1693 and came from Clearwell.
Does anyone know if this land still exists and/or where it might have been?
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, November 04, 2011, 14:27 (4775 days ago) @ annieb22
Hi Annie,
a quick Google shows the following National Archives article re Old Wills etc
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=040-d637&cid=-1&Gsm=200...
specifically:
D637/II/7/B2 1815-1863
c.100
Contents: Letters and office papers relating to Bixslade and Howlerslade Collieries, West Dean, Dark Hill Iron Works, West Dean, Dark Hill and Shutcastle Collieries, and Oakwood Colliery, Newland; includes deed of gales called Deepfield Engine, Stoney Stile Engine or Water Wheel Pit, Dark Hill Deep Engine, Old Christmas Engine or Water Wheel Pit and Vellets Engine; draft deed and letters about the Gloucestershire Chronicle, 1847.
I've studies various online lists & Maps of the various Dean mines and cannot find either Stoney Stile Engine or Water Wheel Pit mentioned, either in Newland area or beyond, I think as these names are from an earlier age. However on the assumption that Stoney Stile is near to Water Wheel, this reference from the ever useful British History AC site states:
The first mine to use steam power for pumping was a drift near Broadmoor known in 1754 as Water Wheel Engine (fn. 79) and later as Oiling Gin. A steam engine was set up there, perhaps as early as 1766, by a group of foreigners, who in 1776 surrendered a major share in the mine to a company of miners.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23267&strquery=waterwheel
As to where this particular Broadmoor is sorry I cannot say as yet. I know of a Broadmoor near Cinderford brickworks, but this must be a very common name in years past so..?.
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Friday, November 04, 2011, 18:26 (4774 days ago) @ Jefff
Thank you for looking that up Jeff. I imagine that it's not a well-known landmark. I wonder if there's an actual stoney stile nearby it.
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, November 04, 2011, 18:52 (4774 days ago) @ annieb22
You're VERY welcome Annie, you know how to charm a feller !
Meanwhile here's what I'd looked for earlier but couldnt find for the trees astwere.
From the local Lightmoor Publications website
http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/Coalopen.html
Stoney Stile
17 December 1844 Granted a gale to Edward Aston, of the Lane End, near Coalway, for a pit situate at Coalway Hill, near the turnpike road leading from Parkend to Coleford to get the coal from the Trenchard veins. Bounded by Victoria and Milkwall Collierys.
26 April 1869 Forfeited.
26 February 1875 Re-galed as New Stoney Stile to Richard hale of Coleford.
10 June 1910 Dean Forest Mercury Application Frederick William Roberts to have New Stoney Stile No.2 Colliery.
8 July 1910 Granted.
F3 309
Amos Brown deceased by 31 December 1932, had New Stoney Stile, New Potlid, Valletts Level No.2, Trenchard No.2, Smith's Trenchard, Fox's Trenchard, Mansfields Trenchard, New Hawkins No.2, Slopes Trenchard.
28 July 1933
Auction at Angel Hotel, Coleford.
New Stoney Stile, Edenwall, 100 acres.
Not Sold.
This is of particular interest to me as I'm researching my brotherinlaw's line, he's an Aston and still living in Coalway !
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Friday, November 04, 2011, 19:31 (4774 days ago) @ Jefff
Thanks once again for your help Jeff. I hadn't appreciated all the mining activity in the Forest until now. My ancestor was a yeoman so I hadn't come across the term 'gale' before. I can see on the OS map the kind of area we are in although the exact location of Stoney Stile or New Stoney Stile is still a little elusive. It makes sense that my ancestor moved someweher near Coleford though.
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Friday, November 04, 2011, 20:38 (4774 days ago) @ annieb22
Annie, if you look at this map, you can click on sections to enlarge them.
http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/Overviewmap.html
Coalway Lane is just to the East of Coleford. I cannot see Stoney but the earlier reference mentioned Edenwalls, which is shown, and is possibly nearby ?.
In fact the map shows a gale at Coalway Hill, which the above same reference implies was the "new" name for Stoney Stile, and adjacent to Edenwalls.
PS Phoned my Aston brother-in-law earlier, he's lived & walked in the area all his life and knows Edenwalls (near his Coalway home), but doesn't know of any such place or name "Stoney Stile".
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Friday, November 04, 2011, 23:13 (4774 days ago) @ Jefff
Thanks for the maps. I see on British History Online that Coleford got a market in 1661 and I wonder if this was the reason why my ancestor settled there. Now I've got to find a miner in the family!
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 00:10 (4774 days ago) @ annieb22
Was your Yeoman ancestor involved with the Navy (you're in Plymouth) at all ?. The Forest was the main source for their shipyard's oak trees then. What do you know about him, eg I can't see his Will on this site.
I've just risked the vagaries of Wikipedia and lookedup "Yeoman", I didnt know the full meaning of it, particularly the associations with our area and the Yew trees used for the famous longbows.
eg
In the late 14th to 18th centuries, yeomen were farmers who owned land (freehold, leasehold or copyhold). Their wealth and the size of their landholding varied.
Many yeomen were prosperous, and wealthy enough to employ servants and farm labourers. Some were as wealthy as the minor county or regional landed gentry and some even leased land to gentleman landowners. Some could be classed as gentlemen but did not aspire to this status: it was cheaper to remain a yeoman. Often it was hard to distinguish minor landed gentry from the wealthier yeomen, and wealthier husbandmen from the poorer yeomen. Some yeomen in the later Tudor and Stuart periods were descended from medieval military yeomen. This is attested mainly by weapons found above fireplace mantles in the West Midlands of England (especially in the border shires).
Yeomen were called upon to serve their sovereign and country well after the Middle Ages, for example in the Yeomanry Cavalry of the late 18th century and later Imperial Yeomanry of the late 1890s.
AND
Yeoman archers and yew war bows.
The English war bow, known as the longbow, was the main weapon of a yeoman archer. It was typically but not always made of yew wood, often Wych Elm; but other woods were used for making bow staves. However, the Spanish, French and Italian yews were also highly sought after because of their superior growth qualities and the very limited availability of English yew in the late Middle Ages.
The 'yeoman archer' was unique to England and Wales (in particular, the south Wales areas of Monmouthshire with the famed archers of Gwent; and Glamorgan, Crickhowell, and Abergavenny; and South West England with the Royal Forest of Dean, Kingswood Royal Forest near Bristol, and the New Forest). Though Kentish Weald and Cheshire archers were noted for their skills, as well the Ettrick Archers of Scotland, it appears that the bulk of the 'yeomanry' was from the English and Welsh Marches (border regions) and the Scottish Borders).
It shames me I didnt know of the Yew-man link, as 70s lads we made our own bows from yew cut (poached?) from the Royal Forest, I've had a lifelong interest in weaponry, and now my son & wife are keen members of an archery club !
So as well as the Forest supplying timber for the Navy's ships (hence it was a target for the Spanish Armada), the Foresters were recruited as skilled archers for King's armies since the middle ages, and the earliest Forest iron workers produced arrowheads & crossbow bolts for the likes of King Richard. Indeed as this reference shows there was an arsenal at the important St Braivels castle which is very near Newland/Coleford.
So theres a variety of possible reasons why your Yeoman was in the area.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23262&strquery=weapons
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 00:43 (4774 days ago) @ Jefff
Hi Jeff, I just received the will from Gloucestershire Archives today in the post and am in the midst of transcribing it.
Arthur Pitchard's son, also named Arthur (the name became Pitcher), lived in Clearwell, Scatterford, Stow and Wiggett?
Then Arthur junior's son, James Pitcher, went to Aylburton, Lydney.
His son, Benjamin senior, married Margaret Worgan from Woolaston/Alvington, and they went to live on the other side of the Severn in Rockhampton.
Their son, Benjamin junior, moved to Uley.
The line carries on to Arlingham through Daniel Bailey Pitcher who married Mary Fryer.
Their daughter, Mary Ann Pitcher married Charles Newbold Hibbitt who were my great-great-grandparents. Hibbitt was my maiden name. They went to Birmingham.
Their son, Alfred, moved around quite a bit as he was a Coastguard which was part of the navy back then. After being in Ireland, he and his family lived in a few places in and around Plymouth which is where my grandfather spent much of his childhood. My part of the family have lived here in Devon since Alfred's generation.
So yes, there is a navy connection but there are quite a number of generations before we finally arrive in Plymouth, lol.
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 00:47 (4774 days ago) @ annieb22
Hi Annie,
As you can see I've added to my earlier post, I suspected the Plymouth link was too recent. I hadnt realized anyone else but me was daft enough to be up so late !. Thatsaid, the forum "locks" (aka closes) threads after they grow to 20 posts, hence this risk is reduced if I just add to exisitng posts so long as no-one else is reading it "live" which is usually the case with my odd hours !.
Re your family, I suspect your family moving to Birmingham was linked with either the coal or iron industries so prevalent in the Black Country of course. I wonder if your ancestor Arthur was an armourer/ironworker, shame he's not called Fletcher ?.
In case you didnt know, the name Pitcher is supposedly derived:
Last name: Pitcher
This unusual surname, found chiefly in East Anglia, is of Anglo-Saxon origin, and is thought, in some cases, to be from an occupational name for a "caulker", one who sealed the seams of ships with a mixture of rope fibres and pitch. The derivation is from the Middle English (1200 -1500) "pich", itself from the Olde English pre 7th Century "pic", meaning "pitch". Job-descriptive surnames originally denoted the actual occupation of the namebearer, and later became hereditary. Alternately, it may be a regional name for someone from Picardy in Northern France, a region adjoining Normandy, from which many of William the Conquerors followers came, thus introducing this name into England after the 1066 Invasion. Recordings of the surname from London Church Registers include: the christening of Matthew Pitcher on December 26th 1581, at St. Martin-in-the-Fields, and the marriage of Dorothea Pitcher and Radulphus Hopkins on February 4th 1590, also at St. Martin-in-the-Fields. A Coat of Arms granted to a family of the name is described thus: Or (gold), a bend gules (red) surmounted by another argent (silver), the Crest being a demi man in a military habit, holding a flag displayed azure (blue). The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William le Picher, which was dated 1243, witness in the "Assize Court Rolls of Somerset", during the reign of King Henry 111, known as "The Frenchman", 1216 - 1272. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/pitcher#ixzz1cmv2KM83
Looking at the 1881 Census it's certainly a very unusual name in the Forest.
http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=PITCHER&year=1881&altyear=1998&...
Land called Stony Stile - where is it?
by annieb22 , Plymouth, Devon, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 01:43 (4774 days ago) @ Jefff
Yes, I've looked into yeomen before. Beefeaters are Yeomen.
I tend to think that my yeomen were the farming type. Daniel Bailey Pitcher was a farmer and his father, Benjamin Pitcher junior, was described as a yeoman when he lived at Uley. I've been to the farm where he lived a few years ago as it used to be a B&B. Margaret Worgan's family had land in Woolaston and were quite wealthy farmers.
I notice in Arthur's will that he leaves a colt and a heifer to various grandchildren and I think he also mentions ewes although difficult to read. He has a crop of wheat growing at Stony Stile so I think he probably was a farmer type of yeoman. I believe Arthur was probably born in around 1630ish - two of his daughters were born in 1654 and 1660 respectively. I'm wondering whether he fought in the English Civil War and whose side he was on. Perhaps he took up the bow then!
The name can sometimes be Pritchard and I see that this name is still quite common in the Forest in 1881 so perhaps my derivative is slightly less so.
My Birmingham ancestor, Charles N Hibbitt, was a house painter. This was from the 1860's onwards. I think agriculture was running into difficulties by then.
Nice talking to you Jeff - I really must get some sleep now.
PRICHARD
by mrsbruso , Friday, November 11, 2011, 04:36 (4768 days ago) @ annieb22
If the name originated as PRICHARD, it is of Welsh origin, as you may already know. (Or the local minister confused Pitcher or Picher with Prichard . . . )
Prichard is from ap Richard, or son of Richard.