Banks, Robert (occupation Forester) (General)

by Bloblynda @, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 16:11 (4683 days ago)

Looking for a Robert Banks who may have been a forester. My grandfather, Richard George Banks, was born in Wiltshire in about 1883 but claimed to have been brought up in the Forest of Dean. His marriage certificate states that his father was a forester, Family lore has it that his mother's name was Matilda but she died young. he had several older brothers one of whom was called Jesse.
I have tried the 1891 and 1901 censuses but no luck. I cannot even find any records of a birth certificate. It is believed that Robert BAnks died about 1911-12.

thanks for looking

Richard G BANKS 1884-1957 WILTS-> GLAM - Collier

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 16:45 (4683 days ago) @ Bloblynda

Name: Richard G Banks
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1957
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: West Glamorgan
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 8b
Page: 865


Some Children:-
Eva M Banks Jul-Aug-Sep 1918 Llanelly Wales
Matilda M Banks Apr-May-Jun 1921 Llanelly Wales
Raymond G Banks Oct-Nov-Dec 1923 Llanelly Glamorganshire

1911 Church Street Gowerton Glam
Richard George Banks 27 Collier Purton Wilts
Lizzie Mary Banks 29 Gowerton Glam
Sidney Sharp 26
John Henry Kent 21


Name: Richard G Banks
Name: Lizzie M Lotwick
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1910
Registration district: Llanelly
Inferred County: Carmarthenshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 2005

Some suspects born in the Purton area ? ( none appear strong contenders)

Richard Edwards Clappen Oct-Nov-Dec 1883 Cricklade Wiltshire

Richard Giles Apr-May-Jun 1883 Cricklade Wiltshire

Richard Hayward Apr-May-Jun 1884 Cricklade Wiltshire

Richard Price Jul-Aug-Sep 1884 Cricklade Wiltshire


This has some elements of lateral solution - Was mother Matilda a BANKS ? Did father Robert remarry ? Was Robert a BANKS ? Is brother Jesse a BANKS ? etc etc

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Richard G BANKS 1884 - DOR

by m p griffiths @, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 18:07 (4683 days ago) @ slowhands

? just in case

On Ancestry, they have an actual baptism entry at Burton Bradstock, Dorset - 6 July 1884 - of a Richard George BANKS - parents George (occupation: Baker) & Mary.

Richard G BANKS 1884 - DOR

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 18:16 (4683 days ago) @ m p griffiths

Hi MPG,
I suspect this may be the same person I posted a moment ago then deleted.

From FreeBMD there is a Bank's line in the Bridport, Dorset, area including the only Richard G Banks:

Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcriber
Births Jun 1884
Banks Richard George Bridport 5a 393 Sally

I wondered if his father was a quarryman at nearby Portland ?.

HOWEVER I deleted my post on seeing:
Surname Given Name Age District Volume Page Transcriber
Deaths Dec 1888
Banks Richard George 4 Bridport 5a 231 angi0

Robert BANKS, Forester died abt 1911 ?

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Tuesday, January 24, 2012, 18:29 (4683 days ago) @ Jefff

For the complete record wrt this site's database:

The only Jesse Banks PRs seem too early and in Hartpury so not true Forest(?)
1834 BANKS Jesse Baptism Hartpury
1858 BANKS Jesse Marriage Hartpury
1873 BANKS Jesse Baptism Hartpury

The only Matilda Banks PRs are infant deaths in Cinderford 1885 & 1902.


This is the only Robert BANKS burial for 1911 +/- 20yrs:

Record_ID: 266565
Entry_Number: 787
Year: 1920
Month: Jun
Day: 2
Surname: BANKS
Forenames: Robert
Residence: Aylburton
Age_at_death: 57
Officiating_Minister: H B Parker
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P209 IN 1/37
Page_No: 99
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: B520

If indeed he was age 57 then his birth is abt 1863 as per your post !

HOWEVER the corresponding possible Baptism off this site is confusing wrt the parents !? This is the only possible site BR of the 3 in the database.

Record_ID: 39299
Entry_Number: 533
Year: 1860
Month: Oct
Day: 28
Parents_Surname: BANKS
Child_Forenames: Robert
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Hannah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lydney
Occupation: Post Boy
Officiating_Minister: Danl. Bell Hankin Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC209 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 67
Parish_Chapel: Lydney
Soundex: B520

EDIT: Just realised I'm getting the Robert & Richard confused wrt likely birthdates.

Please can you confirm my original interpretation that we're searching Robert d1912, son? of Richard George b 1883 Wilts, Robert's mother Matilda & older brother Jesse.
Sorry if I appear dim but want to be clear, if this is so presumably Robert died quite young ?.
Presumably you don't have any more names than these ?.

In fact, I'm now reading it differently again, namely that the "his" you refer to wrt marriage record & mother/brother are in fact your g-father Richard George and NOT RObert as I'd first thought. If this is true, then please remind me how Robert is linked, and please tell me which of the above scenarios to be correct ?.

Thanks from "nice but dim" ;-)

Robert BANKS, Forester died abt 1911 ?

by Bloblynda @, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 09:14 (4682 days ago) @ Jefff

I realise I may have caused some confusion so I'll try and clarify things. My grandfather was Richard George Banks born in Purton, wilts (according to his 1911 census entry). I know all about him post 1911 when he married my grandmother in Llanelly, South Wales. I would like to know more pre-1911. He died in 1957 when I was very young so I've only been able to glean what the rest of the family said about him. He claims to have been brought up in the Forest of Dean, although he also often mentioned Tewkesbury which is not really FoD.There is a family of BAnks at Alderton about 5 miles from Tewkesbury but I can't find any relevant Chritian names there. He was born around 1883. I can find no birth cert. or any mention of him in censuses 1891 and 1901 in Gloucestershire. His marriage cert lists his father as Robert Banks , occupation Forester. It is believed that Richard Banks may have joined the army as a young man and that he rejoined during WW1. I have a picture of him with my Gmother and my father taken c1915 when he is in army uniform. WW1 records at the National Archive have yielded no results. His Father Robert is said to have died not long after Richard was married so it would be 1912-13 ish? Richard claimed his mother was MAtilda, but she died young and he was brought up by a grandmother (name unknown) because he did not get on with Robert's second wife (name unknown). Matilda was a Banks by marriage. I cannot find any death certificate for Matilda Banks and I can't find a marriage cert for Robert Banks and Matilda ? My grandfather also claimed to have several brothers, one of whom was called Jesse. I have found a Jesse Banks born 1873 which could be right except that the parents' names are totally different. Another brother was supposed to have emigrated to Australia.

Since I can find so little documentation, I am wondering whether they were perhaps a family of travellers or Romanies? And although he claims a link with Gloucestershire , maybe he did not spend much time there? Did foresters move around a lot for work?

Robert BANKS marriage ??

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 09:27 (4682 days ago) @ Bloblynda

The "only" possible combination thrown out by FreeBMD is this one

Marriages Sep 1861
BANKS Robert St.Geo.Han.Sq. 1a 365
Clubb Matilda St Geo Han Sq 1a 365


which I suspect gets cast aside equally as quickly :-)

Which goes back to my earlier questions, how sure are you of the answers
This has some elements of lateral solution - Was mother Matilda a BANKS ? Did father Robert remarry ? Was Robert a BANKS ? Is brother Jesse a BANKS ? etc etc

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Robert BANKS marriage ??

by Bloblynda @, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 11:36 (4682 days ago) @ slowhands

Matilda only became a Banks when she married Robert Banks as far as I'm aware. my grandfather's brothers were older than he was so I guess they were the offspring of Robert and Matilda so they'd have been Banks as well. When Matilda died (sometime after 1883)Robert did remarry but I don't know who. My Grandfather, Richard, named one of his daughters Matilda after his mother

Matilda BANKS death ??

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 11:46 (4682 days ago) @ Bloblynda

Richard would have been 11 or 12 - probably still fits the "young" label.


Name: Matilda Banks
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1895
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Tewkesbury
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 374

from Glos BMD's
BANKS Matilda
65
1895 Tewkesbury, Tewkesbury
24 2


and given the earlier comment re Tewkesbury ....

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Matilda BANKS death ??

by Bloblynda @, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 12:12 (4682 days ago) @ slowhands

Trouble is she would have been 53 when my grandfather was born! Not impossible but unlikely

Matilda BANKS death ??

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 12:16 (4682 days ago) @ Bloblynda

Trouble is she would have been 53 when my grandfather was born! Not impossible but unlikely

agreed , but so far its hard to take anything too literally :-)

If your "family" are travellers then tracking them is going to be hard and from previous experience dates/ages tend to "shift" rather than be accurate :-(

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Robert BANKS ??

by mrsbruso @, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 13:42 (4682 days ago) @ slowhands

Possibility?

Name: Robert Banks
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robt. Banks
Mother's name: Sarah A. Banks
Gender: Male
Where born: Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Bristol St Philip and Jacob Out
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: 25 Amberley St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Lithographic Printer

Registration district: Barton Regis
Sub-registration district: St Philip & St Jacob
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2494
Folio: 113
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Robt. Banks 47
Sarah A. Banks 43
Wm.J. Banks 20
Robert Banks 18
Sarah Banks 17
Alfd. Banks 15
Thos.S. Banks 9
Jno. Banks 7
Louisa Townsend 20


OR


Robert Banks
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Banks
Gender: Male
Where born: Grittleton, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: Easton All Hallows
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 75
Piece: 2388
Folio: 82
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Banks 40
Elizabeth Banks 42
George R Banks 12
William J Banks 10
Albert E Banks 5
Fred Banks 2

Robert BANKS ??

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 14:42 (4682 days ago) @ mrsbruso

Hi Mrs B,
pls confirm your records are from the 1881 and 1901 Census' respectfully ?. Ta muchly.(Sums was never my strong point, thats if I have one..).

Robert BANKS ??

by mrsbruso @, Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 20:38 (4681 days ago) @ Jefff

The first is 1881, the second 1901.

Any chance that Matilda was Grannie's name instead of Mum"s?

Robert BANKS ??

by Bloblynda @, Thursday, January 26, 2012, 10:29 (4681 days ago) @ mrsbruso

Yes I had thought of that actually. This may well turn out to be the case, but I still can's find any trace of Richard G Banks son of Robert in any BMD searches

Robert BANKS ??

by mrsbruso @, Thursday, January 26, 2012, 13:29 (4681 days ago) @ Bloblynda

Although the birth years aren't quite in sync, the 1901 census info from Bristol was worth mentioning. "George R" might have been Richard George. Jesse, if older, might already have left home.

If Matilda is Richard's gran, then her last name might not have been Banks, either because of remarriage, or because she's on the distaff side of the family.

I know I have mentioned it before, but my grandfather, Charles George, was "George" on one census, and my grandmother, Patience Nellie, was generally "Nellie" in most instances, and my uncle, Clarence Henry was almost always "Harry", so it helps to look a little outside the box.

When I was looking for emigration info for my great aunt and uncle, I missed my Aunt repeatedly, because they emigrated without my Aunt Katie (she came went to Canada later with another relative) which I hadn't expected, and because my Aunt was recorded not as Elizabeth Ann, or E.A. which she also used, but as "Bessie". Her husband was registered at birth as "Alec", but it was frequently recorded as "Alex" or "Alexander" subsequently.

Personal (aka first or "Christian") Names

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Thursday, January 26, 2012, 16:22 (4681 days ago) @ mrsbruso

I agree with Mrs B that "George R" was quite possibly "Richard George".

Re the possibility of mixedup names, I've always considered my mother to be mentally very intelligent, good memory, always bemoaning the poor standards of grammar etc in today's media or business letters, always doing complicated crosswords etc etc, all since her 1940s EDGS days. However since I've started researching our line it seems her memory of close family names, "facts" & faces is quite ropey, especially when compared to the BMD records and her slightly older sister's memory. Many names & family ties she thought were fact are actually confused in her memory, perhaps as she had so many aunts & uncles as a child. Plus of course there's plenty of cases where a family is not what it seems, with siblings actually being "adopted" cousins etc.

Until a year ago I'd generally believed most people used their first "personal" name for most if not all the time. ("personal" = name or names before their Surname). I'd always referred to that as their Christian name, or Baptised name I guess. Usually this name was the "formal" name used on official paperwork etc and for use outside the family. End of.
However now I know different.

Re the census returns, I've seen quite a few examples where simple nicknames were used instead of the official "personal" name. Probably due to my mother's enthusiasm for correct English Grammer, I always write Jeffrey as my name even on simple computer forms etc even though I dislike it and everyone calls me Jeff; hence that went on my Census form. But not everyone does or did that.
As you say when searching for the common traditonal name Elizabeth, I now start with the obvious(perhaps) of just "Eliza" to hopefuly find both, then "Liz" and if I remember "Lil/Lily" too. All common abbreviations of a somewhat clumsy name that was likely to be shortened in general usage. However it was only lately I also thought of Bet, Beth and Bessie - silly really as I recall "good Queen Bess" (aka Elizabeth 1st) from my schooldays, but it just seems off the mark.

My researches have taught me just how common it was for a child having more than one "personal" names for one of them to have family connections (the father's, say). I've learnt that in some regions sometimes this would be the first formal name ( so in my old thoughts the "primary" & popular name). However actual family usage was to use the apparently less important second name, presumably for convenience within the household between say Robert Senior & Robert Junior; maybe that was actually the parent's preferred personal choice over the "traditional/formal" one they felt obliged to follow.
I'm now almost 50, yet until 18months ago I hadn't realised how often in history we had all repeated personal names, especially I think where there are Welsh ancestors; there are an awful lot of William Jones in my line including now my only son.
My sister married a Geordie. He is Robert, one of a very long line of Robert, he was known as "Bob", his son's Rob, his is Robbie etc etc, yet they all are officially named Robert. What confusion this will bring !
And yes his surname is Walton !!...

This website gives an excellent insight into names and their history.
http://www.rogerdarlington.co.uk/useofnames.html#British

A particularly relevant part for Foresters states
"There is a tendency in Wales for people not to use their first personal name but instead their second. Another trend is for the name of the place of birth to be a second name.

At one time, the Welsh used an ancient patronymic naming system whereby the children of a marriage took their father's forename as their surname. As a result, surnames were not fixed and changed from generation to generation. This practice continued up until the early 1800s in some areas, with rural areas clinging to the patronymic system longer than urban areas. Sometimes the word 'ap' (originally 'mab') meaning 'son of' was incorporated into the new surname. A distinctive feature of Wales is the mutation of 'ap' into the following first name to make a family name, so that ap Hywel becomes Powell, ap Huw becomes Pugh, and ap Richard becomes Pritchard. Since the origin of many Welsh surnames is a first name, one finds frequent occurrences of the same surnames in Wales, even when the familes are not related, such as Evans, Thomas and Williams."


Finally, you may recall this comedy take on an official 1980s British Leyland TV advert proudly exalting their new robot assembly line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU-tuY0Z7nQ

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