Chestnuts Lodge .. continued

The original Chestnuts Lodge thread is locked but I would like to add a bit more information. http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35540

Jeff, yes it looks like I assumed Chestnuts cottage was originally Chestnuts Lodge and gave duff information to Janey.

I don't have an OS map to hand, but I assume from your previous comment that Chestnuts Lodge was on the top of the Chestnuts hill enclosure. If that is correct then I do recall around 1954 the footings of an old building on the very peak of Chestnuts, near the Welshbury end. My older brother recalls there being partial walls still standing around 1950, and in fact a young lad was living rough there at that time.

I'm not sure this was the Lodge, as it wasn't a very well built construction, and no-one referred to it as the Lodge. It was however, the only building we know of inside the Chestnuts enclosure. It must have been a mighty bleak place in winter with no water or electricity!

regards ... Danny

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Yes, Chestnuts lodge ( original ) was high up in the Inclosure at over 600ft above sea level, atop Chestnuts Hill.

Chestnuts Farm lay to the east

Chestnuts Cottage lay to the west near Greenway Farm, on the Littledean - Green Bottom road.

A later Forestry house was built in the 1960's on the Littledean - Green Bottom roadside. No longer in Forestry hands but a private dwelling

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Hi Danny,
thanks so much for your post. I tried to describe the location of the Lodge at the start of my longest post in the locked thread.
This was obtained purely from studying this great website.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

Unfortunately the site's search engine doesn't recognise Popes Hill etc, suggest first search Littledean, then drag the resulting modern image so Chestnuts Hill is deadcentre, this is important. Use the RH menu to select the 1924 preWW2 1:10,560 map. Hopefully when it loads the Hill will be within the image, sometimes it "moves" as you zoom in, if it "falls" off screen sadly you bhave to start over.
The Lodge is marked as just to the "North" (wrt the screen!) of centre of the Hill, on the summit I think. The next/later map from 1953 doesn't show it.

This site's wonderful but does take patience waiting for it to load & focus.
There are many other OS maps on the site and at even closer scales, so very informative, the Lodge is shown on the oldest 1890 map. In fact at the mo the site's playingup again, not unusual for websites at this late hour. However I think I saw a Chestnuts House marked on the 1924 map, at the base of the hill towards Greenway Farm. If I recall correctly this is shown as Chestnuts CottageS on the later maps, so I guess this is the house you're thinking of ?. The maps also show Chestnuts Farm the other side of the Hill.
Hopefully this will tie in with you and your brother's most interesting recollections. Pity the lad living rough there, as you say.
Thanks again, Jeff.

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Hi Jeff,

thank you for the information on old maps and yes, Chestnuts Lodge is exactly where I described the remaining footings with a couple of courses of red brick still here and there in the mid 1950's.

It was a strange sort of place then, the complete Chestnuts enclosure had been cleared and replanted, and on the very top about 50 yards from a small (two acre?) field / clearing were these remains of a building surrounded by half a dozen red plum trees!

many thanks for helping to sort this one out.

regards ... Danny

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Hi Danny, thanks for explaining what to me seemed odd on the maps, the rectangular clearing. I wonder if it was perhaps for the Woodman to keep livestock (a pig?) in.

Re the Woods generally, by coincidence I've been re-reading Humphrey Phelp's "Second Selection of Forest in Old Photographs". It carries a photo on page 102 labelled
"Timber Fellers; Chestnut Wood, Popes Hill, 1941. In the group are Cyril, Frank, Sydney and Fred(Skipper) Jones. This would have been at the time of a large scale felling of chestnut trees."

I wonder if this was the tree-clearing you recall, I guess the plum trees were the famous Blaisdon Reds, very tasty!. I recall always seeing "Plums for sale" signs on the main roadside thro' Minsterworth etc back in the 70s/80s, I hope this is still the case ? (usually dark when I drive thro these days). I'll hopefully buy some next time I'm there and it's daylight.

The photo actually contains seven men and a terrier. I think the foreground four, presumably those named, are in their 50s if not rather more, two generations I suspect. I wonder if any of these was the current occupier of the Lodge ?
I presume they are a known family of woodmen ?

From this site's Baptisms using Advanced Search can find:

Record ID 1039558
Entry Number 241
Year 1920
Month Mar
Day 7
Parents Surname JONES
Child Forenames Leonard
Fathers Forenames Frederick
Mothers Forenames Rachel
Mothers Surname
Residence Chestnut Lodge nr Littledean
Occupation Wood cutter
Officiating Minister Arthur E T McNamara
Event Baptism
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference
Page Number 31
Parish Chapel Flaxley

The photo also contains a couple of unidentified younger lads/men, possibly Leonard.

Record ID 1016152
Entry Number 252
Year 1921
Month Nov
Day 13
Parents Surname JONES
Child Forenames Mary Elizabeth
Fathers Forenames Frederick Charles
Mothers Forenames Rachel
Mothers Surname
Residence Chestnut Lodge Pope's Hill
Occupation Woodman
Officiating Minister Arthur E T McNamara
Event Baptism
Memoranda born 9 Oct 1921
Notes
Register Reference
Page Number 32
Parish Chapel Flaxley

Advance Search of Baptisms for "Chestnut" shows other woodmen in residence at the Lodge from HERBERT c1829, five VOYCE c1840s and three NIBLETTs at Chestnut Farm Pope's Hill c1920. The address doesn't seem to appear in any Marriages but there are a couple of Burials recorded at Chestnut Cottage.

Entry Number 353
Year 1922
Month Feb
Day 9
Surname JONES
Forenames Charles
Residence Chestnut Cottage Popes Hill
Age at death 69
Officiating Minister Arthur. E. T. McNamara Vicar.
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P145 in 1/17
Page No 45
Parish Chapel Flaxley

Entry Number 423
Year 1934
Month May
Day 17
Surname FRY
Forenames Mary Ann
Residence Chestnut Cottage Popes Hill
Age at death 81
Officiating Minister Arthur E. T. McNamara Rector
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P145 in 1/17
Page No 53
Parish Chapel Flaxley

PS I've just twigged... the abovementioned photo is coincidentally just right for the original query wrt possible residents, I do hope it's a help, Janey.

Thanks Danny for keeping me thinking about this, take care, Jeff.

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Thank you all so much for going to the trouble to comment and provide me with more information, it is very interesting. I have found out a little more but nothing concrete to help with my research about the family. I have been told it was a Crown Lodge! Gloucestershire Archives have not been able to help with any elec roll to identify who lived there at the period I am searching.

Thank you again for your help this really is appreciated

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Thank you Danny for your reply, it is much appreciated, when the weather gets better I will certainly come down and visit the area, it sounds delightful.

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Hi Jeff and Janey,

An extract from the Victoria history of Glos, Forest of Dean version, reads as follows:
....The other lodges were new buildings put up between 1806 and 1815, often, like those at Lea Bailey, Serridge, Staple Edge and Chestnuts, at high and isolated sites in the middle of enclosures. The small two-storeyed cottages , built of local stone, were identified by an inscription on the window lintel ...

It also refers to each having nearby land used by the Lodge dwellers for farming as well as their forestry duties.

The Jones family you refer to Jeff were a well known family from Popes Hill, most of whom worked on the forestry, as did another local - Fred Phelps. The family were not the Chestnut Lodge residents although their forefathers may well have been.

The final dismantling of the lodge was probably during the clearance or even the replanting phase, but how long it was uninhabited before that no-one seems to know.

Finally, I note there is an entry on the 1901 census for Chestnuts Lodge, East Dean, Glos - however have no credits to follow this up!

regards .... Danny

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Hi Danny

Thank you for that, some great information about the little lodge. I guess maybe my clues will lie with the Jones Family if I can find any of them :) Just looking at 1911 census now!

Still begs the question would you really have a housekeeper in a 2 up 2 down....

Thank you again

Janey

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Have been told of 2 ladies that lived at the Lodge in 1943, would anyone know of them? Have come some way in my research about the Lodge but not who lived there, no elec roll available - so if anyone can help in any way I would really appreciate it. Please feel free to message me direct Thank you again!

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Have been told of 2 ladies that lived at the Lodge in 1943, would anyone know of them?

Some "Forestry Commission " records are held at Gloucestershire Archives relating to Chestnuts Enclosure and Woodmen .

You would hope that some records of tenants have survived from the Crown days into the Forestry Commission . Have you tried locating any of these ?

Forestry Commission
Forest of Dean
Bank House
Bank Street
Coleford
Glos
GL16 8BA

Tel : 01594 833057
Fax : 01594 833908
email: enquires.dean AT forestry.gsi.gov.uk

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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I have been in touch with the archives but unless I go in personally or pay there is not much else they can help with. They did a search on the elec roll for me but because it was 1943 the period I am looking at there are no elec roll for those year's sadly.

Thank for your help it really is appreciated

janey

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Could anyone please help with any information on who was living at Chestnuts Lodge during the 1940's.

Any help would be appreciated!

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Would any of you kind people know of the Spicer family that lived at Chestnuts Lodge, Popes Hill?

Any help would really be appreciated.

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Any help would really be appreciated.

Long shot there is a nearby marriage in 1939
I suspect Cecil is from Warwickshire ( circa 1908) as a
possible death for Edna is recorded later in Warwickshire

SPICER Cecil George
TOWNLEY Edna Rose
Forest of Dean Abenhall
St Michael
1938 1 259

Year: 1938
Month: Feb
Day: 26
Grooms_Surname: SPICER
Grooms_Forenames: Cecil George
Grooms_Age: 29
Groom_Condition: Batchelor
Grooms_Occupation: Haulier
Grooms_Residence: Newbold Pasey Warwick
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Spicer
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas William (deceased)
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Haulier
Brides_Surname: TOWNLEY
Brides_Forenames: Edna Rose
Brides_Age: 26
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Greenbottom Abenhall
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Townley
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: William (deceased)
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Ada L Spicer
Witness_2: John Spicer
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: F M Green Rector
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P1 IN 1/12
Page_Number: 130
Parish_Chapel: Abenhall

and one probable child

Name: Edna J Spicer
Mother's Maiden Surname: Townley
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1941
Registration district: Warwick
Volume Number: 7d
Page Number: 1540

<><><><><>

1911 Ashorne Warwick
Thomas Spicer 32
Ada Spicer 32
William Thomas Spicer 6
Cecil George Spicer 3
Emma Jane Spicer 1
George William Marson 11
George Spicer 29

Name: Cecil George Spicer
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Registration district: Stratford on Avon
Inferred County: Gloucestershire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6d
Page: 723

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Hello Janey

At the beginning of this thread I referred to a young lad living rough in the shell of Chestnuts lodge. His surname was Spicer. I hesitated to put this forward as it was relatively recent history, and also I could not find any baptisms locally to support a lad of say 15 or 16 in 1950 or just before. Of course he may not have been baptised, but I noted the local marriage in 1938 did not tie up with his age. He wasn't 10 or 11 for sure when living rough.

To try and tie it up for you I have asked a chap I know on Popes Hill to ask the local elders if they can throw any light on the 1940's. I will let you know if he finds anything.

The final avenue will be to locate descendants of the Gardiner and Brain families who lived in a row of cottages a few hundred yards from the lodge on the Greenway side of the hill. They lived there in the 1940 - 70 timeframe for sure.

regards ... Danny

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Thanks Danny - I was given the name Spicer (Kathy) as a possible family to trace who lived at Chestnuts Lodge.

Thank you again for your help and interest....

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Thank you very much!

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The Spicer family quoted by 'Slowhands' has no connection with the Chestnuts other than Mrs Townley had a small shop and bakery in Greenbottom and her youngest daughter Rose married a Spicer from the Midlands as recorded.
Mrs Townley was my wife's grandmother.
Maurice

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Thank you Maurice ;)

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Chestnuts Lodge .. continued (General)