Ann Long b.c. 1820 married George Nash - Forest of Dean FHT Forum

I have been impressed by the efforts in this Forum to resolve problems with our FoD ancestors so I though I would present mine.

My great grandfather was Thomas Nash, born 30 November 1844 in Pillgwenlly, Newport, father being George Nash, occupation miner, and mother being Ann Nash, formerly Long. George and Ann were married in Newland 24 May 1842, he being a miner from Clearwell Meend, son of Richard, and she being from Coleford, daughter of Richard, a farmer.

I have not found a baptism record for either George or Ann. In the 1841 census George is with his family in Clay Lane End and it is possible that Ann is a lodger with the Martin family in Clearwell. I have not found a census record in 1851 for either George or Ann. George Nash appears in the 1861 census having just married Sarah Dew and the rest of his life is well known.

In the 1851 census Tom Nash aged six, born in Newport, is living in Tidenham and is the grandson of William Carlisle, born Tidenham, and Sarah, born Newland. In fact he is the grandson of Sarah, but not William, since William and Sarah Long were married on 30 October 1828 in Chepstow, she being 'of this parish'.

In the 1861 census, Tom Nash is still with his grandparents in Tidenham, working as an apprentice rivetter, after which he goes to London gets married and then in the early 1870s moves to Middlesborough where he remains.

So I have three problems

Why was Thomas Nash born in Newport when it seems all the families were around Newland?

What happened to Ann Nash? Had she died before George Nash took up with Sarah Dew in about 1854? (In a desperate attempt to find something, I happen to have a death certificate for an Ann Nash who died aged 84 in Llanisien, Monmouthshire, which I can give to any interested descendent).

Who was Richard Long and where did he come from? Had he died before Sarah married William Carlisle?

Mike

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I have been impressed by the efforts in this Forum to resolve problems with our FoD ancestors so I though I would present mine.

My great grandfather was Thomas Nash, born 30 November 1844 in Pillgwenlly, Newport, father being George Nash, occupation miner, and mother being Ann Nash, formerly Long. George and Ann were married in Newland 24 May 1842, he being a miner from Clearwell Meend, son of Richard, and she being from Coleford, daughter of Richard, a farmer.

I have not found a baptism record for either George or Ann. In the 1841 census George is with his family in Clay Lane End and it is possible that Ann is a lodger with the Martin family in Clearwell. I have not found a census record in 1851 for either George or Ann. George Nash appears in the 1861 census having just married Sarah Dew and the rest of his life is well known.

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=15261

1881
George Nash abt 1821 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Nash abt 1836 English Bicknor, Gloucestershire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Nash abt 1861 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Rosa Nash abt 1868 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
George Nash abt 1871 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Milson Nash abt 1873 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire

1871
George Nash 51
Sarah Nash 31
James Nash 16
William Nash 13
Eliza Nash 10
Elizabeth Nash 8
Youngenhe Nash 6
Rossa Nash 4
George Nash 2
Milson Nash 2 Months
Isral Constant 74 Widow

1861
George Nash abt 1820 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Head West Dean, Gloucestershire
Sarah Nash abt 1835 Goodrich, Herefordshire, England Wife West Dean, Gloucestershire
James Nash abt 1855 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
William Nash abt 1858 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Son West Dean, Gloucestershire
Eliza Nash abt 1860 West Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter West Dean, Gloucestershire
Maryann Price abt 1851 Llaneshly, Breconshire, Wales Niece West Dean, Gloucestershire

1851

1841
Richard Nash abt 1781 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Nash abt 1786 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Ann Nash abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Ruben Nash abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
George Nash abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Mary Nash abt 1826 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire
Susan Nash abt 1832 Gloucestershire, England Dean Forest, Gloucestershire

1841
Ann Long abt 1821 Gloucestershire, England Newland, Gloucestershire lodger

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1871 Poplar London
Thomas Nash 26 Chepstow
Emma Soph Nash 28 Poplar
Sarah Jane Nash 3 Poplar
Thomas William Nash 1 Poplar
Emma Ann Nash 5 Months Poplar

1861
William Carlisle abt 1806 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Head Tidenham, Gloucestershire
Sarah Carlisle abt 1799 New Land, Gloucestershire, England Wife Tidenham, Gloucestershire
Thomas Nash abt 1845 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Grandson Tidenham, Gloucestershire

1851 The Rising Sun
William Carlisle abt 1803 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Head Tidenham, Gloucestershire
Sarah Carlisle abt 1793 Newbourne, [NEWLAND] Gloucestershire, England Wife Tidenham, Gloucestershire
William Carlisle abt 1836 Newbourne, [NEWLAND] Gloucestershire, England Son Tidenham, Gloucestershire
Tom Nash abt 1845 Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales Grandson Tidenham, Gloucestershire

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Sarah LONG is born around 1798 (?)

1871
William Carlisle abt 1803 Tidenham, Gloucestershire, England Head Tidenham, Gloucestershire

Name: Sarah Carlisle
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1865
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 7

I wonder if this is her mother marrying after Sarah's birth ???

Year: 1800
Month: Sep
Day: 11
Grooms_Surname: D'ARCY
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: Newland
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: LONG
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Parish of Walcot city of Bath
Brides_Fathers_Surname:
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:
Licence_or_Banns: Licence
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Ann Long
Witness_2: Eliz[abe]th Thomas
Other_Witnesses: Thos Bond
Officiating_Minister: Thos Thomas Officiating Minister
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/10
Page_Number: 18
Parish_Chapel: Newland

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Thank you slowhands for taking an interest in my problems.

The marriage record for Ann Long and George Nash in 1842 (FoD Record_ID: 12590) gives the father of Ann as Richard Long, so I had assumed that Richard and the mother Sarah were married. Hence I was not looking for the birth/baptism of a Sarah Long, but hoped that there would be a record of her first marriage to Richard Long to give her maiden name.

Mike

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Thank you slowhands for taking an interest in my problems.

The marriage record for Ann Long and George Nash in 1842 (FoD Record_ID: 12590) gives the father of Ann as Richard Long, so I had assumed that Richard and the mother Sarah were married. Hence I was not looking for the birth/baptism of a Sarah Long, but hoped that there would be a record of her first marriage to Richard Long to give her maiden name.

Mike

The records suggest that Sarah CARLISLE nee LONG is the grandmother of Tom / Thomas NASH 1844

My question is it possible for a Sarah D'ARCY nee LONG to have given birth to a base child called Sarah LONG in Newland prior to her marriage in say 1798 ?

Ann LONG is Tom's mother, Ann's father Richard, born in approx 1820.

On the marriage transcription it does not say that Richard is deceased, and from Census data LONG's in Newland / Coleford seem to be rare.

There is a John LONG from Mitcheltroy Monmouth who is a Farmer, his daughter Sarah marries John Elsmore in 1855 in Bream. I wonder if your LONG's are related ?

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Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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On Ann LONG's marriages certificate 24 May 1842 - (daughter of Richard, a Farmer)

Gloucestershire Baptism Index

(just one child listed of this couple)

at Cheltenham St Mary - 3 March 1819

Ann LONG (da)

Parents: Richd (farmer) & Sarah

address: Arle

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Looking at the 1871 census with George NASH, there is a Isral CONSTANT Male Widower 74/76 - born Newland *****

1871 Census, Glos West Dean, Sling Pitt

NASH
George - 51
Sarah - 31
James - 16
William - 13
Eliza - 10
Elizabeth - 8
Youngenhe (as transcribed) 6
Rossa - 4
George - 2
Milson - 2 months
Israel CONSTANT - 74 - Widower, born Newland

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On Marriage CD

Richard LONG (possible father of Ann, - married Sarah CONSTANT - 19 April 1818 married at Hempsted (both of Littleworth)

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There is a difference in the transcribed christian name on FOD records and Gloucestershire Marriage Index for the following Marriage

FOD records : Marriage at Newland - 6 March 1821

CONSTANT

Jared - (Gloucestershire Marriage Index has this as Israel) - and there is a baptism of child of Israel & Catharine on FOD records) ***

Bachelor, Newland

married

Catherine Bennett YARMOUTH, Spinster, Newland

witnesses: John M (illegible) and Ann CONSTANT

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***

FOD records

Baptism at Newland 21 January 1827

Harriett Ann CONSTANT, parents Israel & Catherine
residence: Bucknock Court, Farmer

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Thank you for the information from the Gloucestershire records - I don't have access to them.

It is an interesting possibility to look at whether Israel Constant could be involved in some way. There is a baptism record for him in Newland in 1793 (Record_ID: 263871), parents John and Mary from Clearwell, as well as a baptism record for a Sarah Constant in Newland (Record_ID: 264410), parents Joseph and Sarah from Ellwood.

It is highly likely that Israel and this Sarah are related in some way, but then there is also a marriage record for a Sarah Constant and John Mathews, Newland 1813 (Record_ID: 35637), so it does question whether there can be any link with the marriage you found in Hempstead.

However, in both the 1851 and 1861 census Sarah Carlisle, as she was then (grandmother of Tom) declared she was born in Newland, which is why I had been looking at FoD records.

Mike

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Thanks to the Gloucestershire records from m p griffiths, it appears that the origins of Ann Long are as suggested - born in Cheltenham to Richard Long, a farmer, and Sarah Constant, who had been married the previous year in Hempsted, on the outskirts of Gloucester.

The absence of any further children for this couple, and Sarah's return to her family in Newland, can be explained by the burial record for a Richard Long, aged 24, in Boddington (just north of Cheltenham) in 22 January 1819, just before Ann Long was born. There is a corresponding baptism for Richard Long in Boddington in 1794, but I will not persue this line as being outside the scope of this forum.

The Sarah Constant who I previously noted was married in 1813 was born in 1788 in Clearwell, baptised in Newland, and can be found with her husband in later census records. The Sarah Constant who was Ann's mother was born in Ellwood, baptised in Newland in 1798, consistent with census records. Her parents were Joseph Constant and Sarah Garlick, married in 1797 in Frampton on Severn.

Joseph Constant was born in 1757 in Clearwell, baptised in Newland, and died there in 1835. His parents were Israel Constant (1704-1789) and Genevra Worgan (1720-?) who married in Staunton in 1744 (his second marriage). This line has been discussed on RootsWeb on more than one occassion.

Of Sarah Garlick I have found nothing except her burial in 1838 in Newland in 1838 aged 65, but it does appear that there was a Garlick family in Uley, less than 10 miles south of Frampton.

The Constant family were farmers, some of them living in Noxon Farm near Clearwell, and so it is quite likely that they were accustomed to travel beyond the Forest of Dean for markets, rather the more inward-looking life of the miners, which is why they married "outsiders".

Having found the origins of Ann Long, there still remains my problem of what happened to Ann after the birth of my great grandfather, Thomas Nash.

Mike

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Ann Long b.c. 1820 married George Nash (General)

Richard NASH 1780 - Prior thread

Sarah LONG 1798 - 1865 Newland

Sarah LONG 1798 - 1865 Newland

Sarah LONG 1798 - 1865 Newland

Ann LONG/Richard & Sarah LONG nee CONSTANT?

Ann LONG/Richard & Sarah LONG nee CONSTANT?

Ann LONG/Richard & Sarah LONG nee CONSTANT?