John Palmer

I'm looking for the birth/bap c.1730; death/bur c.1783; & marr c.1760 of John Palmer to Sarah Cowmeadow all in W on Severn; also d. of their son John Palmer [I know it's confusing] 1813 [will proved]- my 3 x great g.father. The latter was a yeoman on his marr lic & described by a researcher as 'of Flaxley Grove'. Any dates would be much appreciated as would info on the 'Grove'. Many thanks, Aussie Palmer

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Zoopla shows a Grove Farm, Flaxley, Newnham. Usually info, last price, current value and even pics. but not in this case. Property probably not been on market for a long time.

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British History on Line Flaxley - does mention 'Grove' a few times i.e.

The Grove, standing in a deep valley was the principal farmstead in the part of Flaxley, east of Littledean

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=23256&strquery=flaxley

Fod Records

Burial at Flaxley: 26 July 1812

John PALMER

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Just had a look at my pre 1800 Glos. Marriage Index

Marriage at Longney **- 14 February 1763

John PALMER of Eastington and Sarah COMMEDOW - by Lic. ** see Fod record of marriage below - and from Fod Records (see below) - William PALMER - married at Longney - Sarah BROWNING the same day i.e. 14 February 1763.

also

Thomas PALMER of Eastington (Glos) marrying at Northleach, Glos 8 July 1771 - Hannah EDDIS (W)

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John & Thomas PALMER could just be residing at Eastington. There appears to be the weddings of John & William PALMER at Longney - both on the 14 February 1763.

Sarah COWMEADOW was christened at Longney - 1735 (see below) - this might be John PALMER's christening at Longney

22 March 1731 - parent: Thomas

siblings:

Sarah PALMER - 30 March 1721 - Thomas & Sarah (buried 25 June 1732 - daughter of Thomas)
Thomas PALMER - 23 December 1723 - Thomas & Sarah
Giles PALMER - 15 January 1733 - Thomas & Sarah

A Giles PALMER is mentioned in this previous thread for PARRY

www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=40142

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Looking at the Gloucestershire Genealogical Database - there is a Will of Thomas PALMER, Yeoman, Longney - 1751/53

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/

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**** if you check the Longney baptisms: there are a number of siblings of Sarah COWMEADOW - (Father: Richard, Mother: Anna

Mary - 10 April 1737
Hannah - 9 January 1740
John - 9 May 1742
Mary - 20 July 1745
Hester - 22 November 1747
Anna - 24 March 1749

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Fod Records

Marriage at Gloucester St Nicholas - 12 February 1734

Richard COWMEADOW
residence: Longney
married
Hannah BULLOCK
residence: Westbury

and burial at Longney
5 November 1762 of Richard COWMEADOW

downloads - Biigland Transcripts for Longney - age 60

his wife Anna - 20 September 1772 - age 67 and Anna their daughter 19 December 1765 age 16.

www.forest-of-dean.net/downloads/Bigland_Transcripts/Longney_Bigland_Transcripts.pdf

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Have just double-checked my Burial CD Index which gives a death of a Sarah PALMER at Westbury on Severn, age 92 on the 4 April 1828.

Fod Records have the name as Jane PALMER - buried 4 April 1828 age 92 at Westbury on Severn

Sarah PALMER c 1736.

Fod Records, Baptism at Longney - 6 July 1735

Sarah COWMEADOW

father's forename: Richard

mother's forename : not stated

Fod Records

Marriage at Longney - 14 February 1763

John PALMER of Eastington

Sarah COWMEDOW of this Parish

marrried by Licence

witnesses: Robert BULLOCK** and W MERETT

and

Marriage at Longney - 14 February 1763

William PALMER - of this Parish

married Sarah BROWNING of this Parish

by licence

witnesses: Thomas GABB and W MERETT

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British History on Line for Longney - talks about the BULLOCK's family - farmers of Longney

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Using the Advance Search : Children of John & Sarah PALMER - Westbury on Severn

John - 27 November 1763 - Married Mary BELLAMY - 28 July 1793 Westbury on Severn
William - 24 March 1765
Sarah - 19 May 1767
Joseph - 24 January 1769
James - 2 May 1771
Thomas - 26 April 1773
Mary - 9 April 1776
Benjamin - 28 April 1778
Daniel - 18 April 1780

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? Burial at Westbury on Severn - 11 April 1783

John PALMER

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Thank you Roger - a British knight in shining armour!
I haven't thoroughly checked your findings yet but wanted to thank you so much.
It gives me a whole new slant as other researchers have given John Palmer's parents as Richard P & Ann Bullock - yet not one Richard P has come down through the generations but several Thomases.
I found 'Grove Farm', a B&B at Bullo Pill, Newnham GL141DZ with pics @ www.sawdays.
co.uk. It is also the address of a WoS councillor to whom I have emailed asking for history.It would be one heck of a coincidence if it is the home of my ancestors as it seems a fair way from Flaxley. Dream on! The house is supposedly 16c - Australia has only a 225yo history!
I am greatly in your debt & if FoD accepts donations please let me know.
an Aussie Katherine Palmer

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Hello Katherine,

I think your thanks should be directed to mpg, not to me, but am delighted that you are being successful in your enquiries.

This is no accident. FoDFHT is far and away the best Site of all the FH societies I know of. The format and user friendliness reaps rich rewards.

Roger

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Many thanks for this wonderful info - I am gradually sorting through it. I directed my thanks previously to Roger Griffiths thinking you were one and the same as you both replied - very confusing.
Your findings open up a new line of enquiry as a previous researcher had John Palmer's parents as Richard Palmer & Ann Bullock. Perhaps they were mistaken for Sarah Cowmeadow's parent's names. There are several Thomas Palmers in our pegigree but not a single Richard.
I did find Grove Farm as a B&B with pics at Bullo Pill, Newnham www.sawdays.co.uk said to have been built in 16c - what a wonder if it was the home of my ancestors!
Once again many thanks for your help.
Katherine Palmer

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The Transcribers of the Forest of Dean records are where the thanks should be directed. We just put this information together when answering requests.

The Will of Thomas PALMER, Yeoman, Longney 1751/1753 from the Gloucestershire Records Office - link in previous thread - on the far right of Thomas PALMER's details, is ordering information, hopefully this will give family members names.

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Thanks again to you and the transcribers.
Unfortunately a search for Thomas Palmer's will 1751-53 comes back 'no records found.Kath

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Hi Kath,
I think you may have encountered a website glitch or somesuch, it seems to work ok for me.
Please retry just entering name "Thomas Palmer" from this link; http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Search.aspx

This will hopefully give you a list of 25+ men, your Thomas is halfway down the first page; Year "1751", Parish "Longney" etc. Did you see this when you tried ?.

Click the "ordering information" hyperlink at right hand side and hopefully it will work ok.

Hope this helps, Jeff

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Thanks Jeff it worked at last, Kath

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If you look at Men in Armour for Gloucestershire 1608

http://www.coaley.net/glos1608/index.php

Flaxley

Thomas PALMER - Servant to George KINSTONE, Gentleman ** A40 (age about 40) - middle stature

*** George KINGSTON, Gentleman (Flaxley) Will 1645 also on the Gloucestershire Will Index

Fod Records - Burial

George KINGSTON - 15 March 1645 (Flaxley) -

The KINGSTON family of Flaxley are well documented on the 'net'.

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I'll have to live to 100 to find the sources you know of!
Thanks for info on Thomas Palmer being a servant of Kingstons.

I found previously that this family built the 2nd Flaxley Chapel.

The 3rd chapel built by Mary Pope in 1727-30 was said in 1851 to
have had '130 seats, all appropriated for the household & tenants
of Sir Martin Crawley -Boevey.'[Benefice Office W o S]

This made me wonder if John Palmer was a tenant farmer of the Abbey
when his last 7 children were baptised in Flaxley from 1800-1813.

[The 4th Flaxley church wasn't built until 1856.]

I would tend to think that John Palmer descended from Thomas Palmer
of Flaxley rather than from Thomas Palmer of Longney; would you?

Re John Palmer s/o Thomas bap 22.03.1731 Longney - in the same year I found
John Palmer s/0 Thomas bur 20.10.1731 " - same Vicar W James
That has me totally confused; it can't be my John Palmer.

Puzzled Kath

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If you send for the Will, this may help clear things up. In some cases, in the old Wills I've sent for - children's names are mentioned, but I can't find their baptisms.

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William PALMER who was married on the same day as John - not sure of his parentage. W MERETT appears as a witness of William/John and when Thomas CARTER married Anne JEFFERIES - both W MERETT and Giles PALMER were witnesses. Wm PALMER was a witness at the marriage of Giles PALMER in Longney. There's a link somwhere. Use the Advance Search for witnesses - this can be useful. When John PALMER married - one witness was Thomas GABB and he married a CARTER.

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There is a gap of a number of years children of John PALMER and Sarah (at Longney)

Sarah - 1721
Thomas - 1723

John - 1731
Giles - 1733

On Fod Records - there is a burial of a William MERETT (Jnr) - of this Parish of Elmore - 14 July 1773

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?The Church of Latter Day Saints - has a William PALMER christened at Elmore - 10 July 1726 - father Thos. PALMER.

Also on FoD records : Marriage at Saint Nicholas, Gloucester 14 February 1775 - Joseph PALMER and Susannah HARDING - this couple appear on the CLDS to have children at Eastington. e.g. Richard 1775, Benjamin 1788 - Mary Ann - 1777

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- John was from Eastington - on his marriage records in 1763 - so the family appear to have land elsewhere.

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Thanks mpg I have sent for wills of Thomas Palmer 1751 & John Palmer 1813.

Yes, I noticed the gap in years of children of Thomas Palmer - strange.

Yes, will look up witness records.

It is difficult to figure out the relationships.
Children of John & Sarah Palmer were; John, William, Sarah, Joseph, James, Thomas, Mary, Benjamin, Daniel.[WoS Par Rcds]

I have copies of hand drawn pedigrees of Bullock family with Palmer connections* if they would be of use to your records.In fact I'm happy to send any of my records to you if they might help other researchers.

* e.g.Ann Palmer d/o Daniel Palmer & Ann Palmer inherited 'The Temple' Littledean from gt uncle Charles Bullock &

Benjamin Palmer s/o John & Sarah Palmer inherited 'Griffins Farm Tibberton' from Charles Bullock...

ON this same chart is written 'Giles Palmer of Longney ... of Griffins Tibberton ... Sarah - d.1806' - seemingly unconnected to the pedigree! It's all too much.

You have given me much food for thought, Kath

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'Benjamin PALMER s/o John & Sarah PALMER inherited 'Griffins Farm Tibberton' from Charles BULLLOCK'

If you search the Gloucestershire Archives: Online Catalogue

http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/catalogue

Finding Ref: D2299/2/6/41

Title: Tibberton: Griffins Farm (Thomas Palmer)
Cider and perry

Date: 1897

NumberofDocs: 1 document

--- + lots of other documents and by searching Giles PALMER (which seems to be a family name)

Finding Ref: D678/1 T2/5/46-61
Title: Saunders to Butler to Remington
Date 1736-1765

..... (3 April 1738) by Giles PALMER of Moreton Valence, yeoman and John PALMER of the same, baker (two sons of William PALMER, late of the same, yeomen, deceased),.........

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? Gloucester pre 1800 Marriage Index CD

YATE - both of Wotton

Thomas PALMER/Sarah SHIPWAY

24 January 1713

Fod Records: Burial at Longney - 4 March 1753 - Sarah PALMER

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When John and William** married in 1763 - they both married by Licence.

In the Downloads - there is an example of the Licence of my x grandparents in 1777 - which contains more information that the parish register entry on the actual marriage day.

i.e. It gives the age of my x grandparents, status and John's occupation. (although I saved it under Bann is should have been Licence)

www.forest-of-dean.net/downloads/Miscellaneous/Marriage_Bann_Sample_2.pdf

The Licence is dated 8 March 1777 - the couple married at Lydney - 9 April 1777 (.. ufusal Abode for the Space of Four Weeks laft paft) - John's age and occupation is not on the marriage entry.

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The Licence should also be at the Gloucestershire Records office for John.

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*** in previous reply gave the CLDS birth of a William PALMER at Elmore in 1726 - father : Thos.

Going back to the Longney transcripts on downloads:

In memory of William PALMER of this parish who died 26 November 1782 age 56 (c1726) and Sarah - his wife - who departed this life June the 28th 1791 age 59.

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? are these PALMER's and BULLOCK's inter-marrying farmers?

Looking at my Gloucestershire Marriage Index CD from 1800

Thomas PALMER of Littleworth married Elizabeth BULLOCK at Hempsted - 21 June 1830

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Yes mpg they intermarried many times from c.1700-1800.

How do I get details of Census records?
I have from FoD searches; Edwin Palmer, 30, Flaxley, '3 - 356/6 - 5' but don't know how to open it up.

Thank you all for a great site

Kath

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Think you are after this information (HO 107/365/6)

1841 census

Flaxley Mill *****

PALMER

Edwin - 30 - Miller, all born in County (son of Thomas & Elizabeth PALMER - christened 3 March 1811, Flaxley)
Caroline -30 (daughter of John & Mary PALMER - christened 31 March 1811, Flaxley)
Thomas - 6
Harriet - 4
Alfred - 8 months

(Gloucestershirebdm - Alfred William PALMER - 1840 - mother's maiden name PALMER)

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**** 8-32 Gloucestershire Society for Industrial Archaeology - this website has old photographs of Flaxley Mill (not sure if it's Edwin's - cross-checks with No. 20 photograph + map - c1800 positioning Flaxley Corn Mill

http://www.gsia.org.uk/reprints/1974/gi197408.pdf

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Fod Records

Marriage at Flaxley - 7 January 1832

Edwin PALMER- Bachelor, Parish of Flaxley

married

Caroline PALMER - Spinster, Flaxley Parish

by Licence

witnesses: William BELLAMY and Ann PALMER

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Fod Records

Baptism at Flaxley - 31 March 1811

Caroline PALMER - parents John & Mary

(siblings)

John - 15 April 1800 christened 16 May 1800
Joseph - born 23 December 1802 - christened 9 January 1803
Ann - born 23 January 1805 - christened 17 February 1805
Esau - christened 25 February 1807
Harriet - 29 January 1809

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Looking at Public members trees on Ancestry - Mary's (mother) maiden name was BELLAMY (info in previous thread) and John PALMER - christened 27 November 1763 - parents John & Sarah.

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FoD records

Marriage at Westbury on Severn - 28 July 1793

John PALMER (otp) Westbury

married

Mary BELLAMY - (otp) Westbury **

by licence:

Witnesses: William GOUGH and Tobias COWLES

---

** previous thread on the BELLAMY/COWLES family of Westbury

www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=35110

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Thank you Marilyn

It's taken me awhile to digest the fabulous info you found re Palmers at Flaxley
and I thank you wholeheartedly.

I have been sent a catalogue for the selling of Grove Farm in 1871 by a Mrs Palmer. It lists everything even to the names of the cows & horses !

My need now is to find which Mrs Palmer she was.
I thought it might have been the Edwin Palmers but found on FoD records they d. in 1868 & 1869 - bur. Flaxley.
The youngest son Joseph d. 1876 bur. WoS but I can't find his wife Ann [Bellamy] Palmer's d.

Could you search census records for Grove Farm Flaxley for Palmers for me please? I can't find any way of putting Grove Farm in a census search. In another thread 'Slowhands' found Palmers at Temple Farm for a researcher. http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=2782

The will of John Palmer d.1812 arrived last week in which he left his estate to wife & son John (- 12 at the time. He's the one who lived at the Temple).

The land bequeathed in the will was:-

'...all and singular

those my several Nurseries Pieces or Parcels

of Land together with the Stock and Trees growing

and being thereon and all the other Trees Planted

by me situate lying standing and being at or

near a Place called the Camp and adjoining the

Road leading from the Plough to Littledean

in the said County And also all that my

Garden or Nursery with the Stocks and Trees

standing and growing therein situate and being

at a Place called the Grove Stile and Tibbs Cross

in the Hundreds of Saint Briavells in the said County of Gloucester...'

Unfortunately the will does not mention Grove Farm. Maybe it wasn't called that then? On one pedigree chart I was given it says JP 'of Flaxley Court' & on another 'of Flaxley Grove'. It's very confusing to an outsider. I have seen ref to The Camp in BH online. I guess what I need is a plan of these farms. Any light you can throw on the situation of Grove Farm would be appreciated.

I'm happy to send copies of my FH to FoD FHT.

Kath

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Hi,
searching tinternet for "Grove Farm Flaxley" gave this hit which relates to a modern address, perhaps the same as yours ?
http://www.westburyonsevernpc.org.uk/councillors.htm

Given as it currently houses a "public figure" if I were you I'd write or phone and politely enquire. It's an uptodate website so you could be lucky...

Grove Farm
Flaxley
Nr Newnham-on-Severn
Glos GL14 1JW

----------

Inputting this postcode into the OldMaps site does find a modern map location called Grove Farm just east of Flaxley village towards Westbury, does this seem correct ?

By changing the displayed map to the oldest available, the 1884 OS, it still shows Grove Farm, suggesting its the same one mentioned in the 1871 Census.
Hopefully carefull studying of these maps will find the other locations you seek.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

I'd love to search now but a late meal awaits me, Happy Hunting !

(If you've not used the Old Maps site before then this prior thread may help, it can take a little getting used to at first but is worth persevering with)
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=38858

UPDATE !!

OOPS !, sorry, should have back-read(?) the thread first....
re your earlier mention of a Grove Farm at Bullo Pill. I also found that one but I don't think it's the same one as I've quoted above, different phone number & postcode etc. Bullo Pill is on the bank of the Severn, south of Newnham, so a fair way from Flaxley village. "Grove Farm" is a very common/traditional farm name throughout the UK, it seems.
As you then say (perhaps a little mixedup) the above GL14 1JW Grove Farm in Flaxley village is indeed owned by a local councillor, good luck with your email. This is "your" Grove Farm I'm certain.

This FoD Council pdf document has a photo and describes a C17th Barn at Grove Farm.
http://www.fdean.gov.uk/media/Assets/Planning-DC/documents/Conservation%20Areas/buildin...

Searching Tibbs Cross:
http://greenbottom.org.uk/tibbs-cross-houses/
http://www.torrens.org.uk/greenbottom.org/Walks/StAnthonys/index.html
http://www.burgumfamily.com/pages/pl%20flaxley.html

Also, in 1876 & 1879 Trade Directories for Flaxley,
"PALMER Thomas, miller and farmer, Flaxley mill"
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cbennett/flaxley1876.htm
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/kellys/Flaxley_1879.htm

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Many thanks Jeff for your help - but my head's nearly done in. A bit mixed up? - me? - ha! - very likely!
Yes the owner has been a great help & very kind. No doubt she's a busy lady.
The oldmap site has been terrific. I had looked at it before but didn't really get it. But with perseverance I have found Grove Farm, Camp Farm, Tibbs Cross Farm, Grove Style Farm, Temple Farm & Elton Farm where some Palmer/Bullocks lived. I even found another Grove Farm near Camp Farm! As you say a common farm name.It's a shame the old maps can't be printed out.
If a Bullock hadn't met a Palmer in a Cowmeadow none of this would have happened. That's my joke for the day - hope it's allowed...
I have yet to check you refs to Tibbs Cross or Directories.
Once again many thanks.
Kath

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I 'm pretty sure its The Grove farm nr Littledean
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/156135

Grove Farm,
Littledean Road,
Newnham, GL14 1JY

Given the Tibbs Cross reference and the Palmers at The Temple, up near Pleasant stile

This may have been known as Flaxley Grove Farm Littledean.

Year:1923
Month:Aug
Day:7
Grooms_Surname:SMITH
Grooms_Forenames:William Whistance
Grooms_Age:26
Groom_Condition;Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:Grocer
Grooms_Residence:105 Park Road Hockley Birmingham
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:SMITH (deceased)
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:Francis
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:Fitter
Brides_Surname:WATTS
Brides_Forenames:Alice
Brides_Age:23
Brides_Condition:Spinster
Brides_Occupation:[not stated]
Brides_Residence:Flaxley Grove Farm Littledean
Brides_Fathers_Surname:WATTS
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:Alfred
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:Farmer
Licence_or_Banns:Banns
Date_of_Banns:[not stated]
Signature_or_Mark:Both sign
Witness_1:Alfred Watts
Witness_2:Doris E George
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:J. Martin Officiating Minister
Event:Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:P 110 IN 1/10
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel:Littledean

1911 Camp Farm Littledean
Alfred Watts abt 1870 East Dean, Gloucestershire Husband Littledean, Gloucestershire

Year:1899
Month:Apr
Day:3
Grooms_Surname:WATTS
Grooms_Forenames:Alfred
Grooms_Age:29
Groom_Condition:Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:Labourer
Grooms_Residence:Mitcheldean
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:Watts
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:Labourer
Brides_Surname:PRICE
Brides_Forenames:Lilly
Brides_Age:25
Brides_Condition:Spinster
Brides_Occupation:[not stated]
Brides_Residence:Tidenham
Brides_Fathers_Surname:Price
Brides_Fathers_Forenames:Albert
Brides_Fathers_Occupation:Market Gardener
Licence_or_Banns:Banns
Date_of_Banns:[not stated]
Signature_or_Mark:both sign
Witness_1:James White
Witness_2:Ernest Watts
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister:V C Reynell Reynell Vicar
Event:Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:P333 IN 1/8
Page_Number:238
Parish_Chapel:Tidenham

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

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Happy New Year 2014 to all of you who have helped me with my FH research
esp Marilyn G, Slowhands, & Jeff.
I'm sorry I didn't do this sooner but life gets in the way.
I am still working on docs re PALMER to send to FoD.
I am happy to share any PALMER research with others.

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Forest of Dean FHT Forum

John Palmer (Parish Records)

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

Thomas Palmer will

John PALMER/ Sarah COMMEDOW + COWMEDOW

Thomas Palmer of Flaxley

Thomas Palmer of Flaxley

John Palmer of Flaxley

PALMER/BULLOCK

PALMER/BULLOCK

PALMER/BULLOCK/BELLAMY + Mill sites

John & Mary Palmer of Flaxley Grove

Grove Farm, Flaxley

Grove Farm, Flaxley

Flaxley Grove Farm nr Littledean /Flaxley & Camp Farm

thanks