WW1 soldiers

Hello Jefff,

Thanks for the support, I have a feeling this database will never be "complete" but worthwhile never the less. I have tried not to get distracted by some of the details I have found.

For example this 8 line paragraph in the Gloucester Journal from Dec 1914 gave me 5 more names but I don't yet know any more about the men

Local Soldier Families

The King has been pleased to forward a letter of congratulation and appreciation to Mr. and Mrs. John Roberts, of The Scowles, Coleford, whose five sons are serving with the ccolours. Privates Walter and Tom are at the front with the 2nd Monmouth Territorials, Private Fred A. and Sidney C. are in the Army Service Corps, and Private Bert is with the Royal Garrison Artillery

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The parents are John Roberts and Mary Ada (nee Roberts) who married at a FOD Register Office in 1884. The 1901 Census tells us that they had 6 boys as follows:
William John born 1884 Newland
Frederick Arthur born 1886 Newland
Albert Henry born 1888 Newland
Sidney Charles born 1890 Newland
Walter Benjamin born 1892 Newland
Richard Thomas born 1893 Newland

Here are the entries from Glos BMD site:
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
ROBERTS William John ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1885 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 42 488

ROBERTS Frederick Arthur ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1886 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 44 147

ROBERTS Albert Henry ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1888 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 45 336

ROBERTS Sydney Charles ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1890 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 47 227

ROBERTS Walter Benjamin ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1892 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 48 458

ROBERTS Richard Tom ROBERTS ROBERTS ROBERTS 1894 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 50 486

Frederick Arthur and Sidney/Sydney Charles joined the Army Service Corps on the same day - 11 November 1914.

The marriage of Frederick Arthur on 12 January 1918 at Coleford tells us that he was a Corporal in the A.S.C and that his brother Walter (a witness) was a Lance Corporal but we do not know at this stage in which regiment.

Sidney Charles survived the war as he was buried on 30 November 1933 at Coleford Cemetery.

Walter Benjamin survived the war. He died in 1950:
Deaths Jun 1950
Roberts Walter B 58 F.of Dean 7b 373

Albert Henry survived the war. It would appear that he emigrated to Australia and died there in 1973.

Frederick Arthur survived the war. He died on 16 January 1961 (Source Probate Records).
Deaths Mar 1961
ROBERTS Frederick A 74 F.of Dean 7b 523

Mike

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What an awful situation for the Roberts parents to find themselves in ?. As per my email to you I can vouch that untangling the various Roberts can be a tricky business, do hope some if not all these brave lads made it home but seems unlikely.
Thanks !

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Frustrating isn't it? I've also been working on the Roberts family of Scowles (where I was born and brought up) but, I suspect, a different part of it. The earliest I can get to is about 1801 and I can't, as yet, find a connection to your Roberts family although I'm sure there must be one.

My mother was Dorothy Amy Roberts (1904-1998); her father was Benjamin Roberts (Abt 1867-1937); his father was Daniel Roberts (1832-1901) whose father was John Roberts (Abt 1801-Abt 1867). Some of the dates may well be wrong. One of the inhibitors as I'm sure you've found is the way the area is treated in the various Censuses - sometimes in Monmouth/Wales and sometime in England and even then the sub-district's name changes.

Happy to share any other information with you if it helps. Also, have you been on the terrific Scowles Hamlet website researched and put together by Tome Bint? He has varoius bits on the Roberts family as well as the school registers going way back. It's at:

http://www.dance-family.com/scowles%20hamlet.htm

Good luck.

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Just looking again at Tom Bint's site this might be the link between the two.

John Roberts (1860) and his brother Benjamin (1862) appear to be the sons of Daniel & Selina Roberts from Lane End. They were both quarrymen at Scowles and their children attended the school there. Dorothy May Roberts (1904) and her brother Benjamin Leslie (1905) were the children of quarryman Benjamin Roberts and were on the register in 1908.

John's son Sidney Roberts (1890) was a quarryman here in the 1920s when his son Kenneth (born 1921) enrolled at Scowles School.

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Hi Dink,
Tonight I've been using the free search page of the British Newspaper Archive, once again "stocking up" on likely hits prior to taking out a short subscription.

I found this hit, which suggested to me young Arthur may have sadly died from wounds suffered during the War.

The BNA hit clue says
“... Longhope FUNERAL OF AN EX SOLDIER. mam i ex u r tcrmaster-Sergeant Arthur Evan Constance, only son of Mr. and ... ”
Saturday 27 March 1920 , Gloucester Journal, article of 297 words.

I think Arthur was a Quartermaster-Sergeant, hopefully downloading it will give more clues. Judging from the tiny image of the newspaper page on the search engine, plus the family's standing within the village, this looks like a detailed article.

I cannot see Arthur within this site's PRs, but from GlosBMD;

Birth Details

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
CONSTANCE Arthur Evan CONSTANCE CONSTANCE WATKINS 1889 Gloucester Gloucester, Huntley 17 468
(September Qtr according to FreeBMD)

And;

Deaths Mar 1920 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONSTANCE Arthur E 30 Gloucester 6a 392

The most likely Marriage for Arthur's parents seems to be;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Constance Evan Samuel Nottingham 7b 664
WATKINS Clara Ann Nottingham 7b 664

The district does seems odd but I think their Death records confirm it's the correct family ?

Deaths Mar 1934 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Constance Evan S 73 Westbury S. 6a 355

Deaths Mar 1943 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CONSTANCE Clara A 82 F.of Dean 6a 408

I'm surprised I cannot see any of the above burials, including Arthur, in this site's PRs, or any of their Memorial Inscriptions on the Longhope Village Website.

However I see the 1881 Census has Evan S. Constance, a sawyer b1861, at home in Longhope with parents Eli, a woodturner born Longhope 1822 and Ann b1819.

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Dink, this is Arthur's entry in this site's excellent new database.

Record ID: 1039
Year:
Surname: CONSTANCE
Forename: Arthur Evan
Rank: Private/Lance Corporal
Regiment: 13th (Forest of Dean) Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment
Service Number: 18311
Residence: Longhope
Notes_1: Enlisted February 1915 KIA
Notes_2:
Newspaper:
Date_Published:
Image:
Soundex: C523

The entry stated "KIA", or "Killed In Action".
I presume you obtained this from his Medal Index Card, I see Ancestry doesn't have his Service or Pension records ? (I cannot access the card image).
If so then this seems odd regarding his Burial as an "ex soldier" in 1920. Arthur's death is not recorded on the CWGC website.

I ask not to query your excellent database work, but because I'm trying to best understand how the War Office compiled their records such as the Medal Cards, as he apparently died in 1920 long after the Western Front War ended. As far as I'm aware the 13th Glosters ceased to exist in 1918, unless of course Arthur was transferred to another unit and went onto fight in the Middle East, for example ?

However as I understand it the deaths of servicemen were not recorded in the usual BMD Records, so he wouldn't be listed on FreeBMD etc, unless PERHAPS? if he died in a UK hospital ??

Thanking you in advance for any thoughts you may have,
Cheers, Jeff.

PS Regarding the 13th (Forest of Dean) Glosters I've just found this informative website about them that will hopefully be of interest.
http://www.malvernremembers.org.uk/the-13th-gloucestershire-regiment
http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Forest-of-Dean/Glosters.html

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Jeff,

I have amended a few entries where KIA should be "died" and was expecting one or two more to come to light.

Reading the article you found gives plenty of family information and tells a sad story of Arthur Evan Constance's death

Briefly his parents were Mr & Mrs E S Constance, sisters May, Nellie and Lilly

Laid to rest in the burial ground of the Zion Baptist Chapel

Arthur was called up in 1915, went to France in 1916, by April 1918 he was a CQMS when he was shot through the thigh and captured by the Germans. He spent 4 months in hospital and held prisoner until after the Armistice. His close confinement seriously affected his health, upon his release he was sent to the Notts. County War Hospital suffering from mental breakdown, from which he never recovered, Arthur was 30 years of age

Surname CONSTANCE
First Name Arthur Evan
Abode Laburnum Cottage Longhope
Occupation Private No18311 13th Battn Gloster Regiment
Year Proved 1920
Page Number 92
Year of Death 1920
Month of Death Mar
Day of Death 14
Value Under £152
Document AWW
Notes Died at Gloucester Asylum
Will Number Will_04424

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Hi Dink,
thanks very much for your full reply, yet another sad story, but sadly far from unique across the land. As I said I wasn’t querying the accuracy of your soldier database, but wondered whether the Medal Cards were a little misleading - I’ve seen a few that seem in error in this way, quite understandably given the huge numbers of soldiers involved for the War Office clerks to manage; thanks for clarifying everything.

Thanks for advising that Arthur, and perhaps his parents, was buried at the Zion Baptist ground. I didn’t look in that section of the Longhope website records, I now see that site only currently shows this Constance memorial inscription,

"Ivor Constance , Died 30th June 1990, Aged 84 years
and his beloved wife Florence May, Died 22nd Feb. 1995, Aged 89 years."

The newspaper article is particularly helpful mentioning Arthur’s treatment at the Notts County War Hospital. Like many of the new War Hospitals, this was formerly the Nottingham County Asylum at Saxondale, Radcliffe-on-Trent. Fortunately this was relatively modern, opened in 1902, so hopefully the treatment was more enlightened than we think of for the older "asylums". According to the Long Trail website it “had 540 beds and was used for mental patients from 25 July 1918 to 30 August 1919”, presumably these were all victims of the War, the socalled “shell shock” and such like. At least by those days such casualties were treated with the respect and kindness they thoroughly deserved.
From http://www.1914-1918.net/hospitals_uk.htm

These sites contain some interesting references to the Notts County War Hospital and treatment therein:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=468725.0
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=2517
http://www.nottinghamhospitalshistory.co.uk/page148.html

RIP CQMS Arthur Evan Constance.

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Later Update, May 2016.
I have only just spotted this other, older thread about Arthur, which I'm linking in case it helps other researchers.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=39185

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Another former Mental Asylum turned WW1 Military Hospital, but closer to home, was the Beaufort Hospital at Fishponds near Bristol; history and wonderful photoset here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_Hospital
http://www.glensidemuseum.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/beaufort_war_hospital_gallery.htm

Another Gloucestershire WW1 Hospital was Cleve Hill Hospital, Downend, Bristol,
http://www.frenchaymuseumarchives.co.uk/WW1.htm
This should not be confused with the later “Frenchay Hospital” better known to Foresters, which first opened in 1921 and was hugely expanded during WW2.

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Recently I've been learning about our WW1 military Hospitals, it's been very moving to see just how many thousands of casualties were being treated all over the UK. I hope this forum allows me to illustrate what can be found, despite my research not being about a Dean Forester. I have a Lincolnshire friend who's long nursing career had been inspired by her Grandma, a WW1 Nurse supposedly at the seemingly "unlikely" Kings College, Cambridge ?!.
I found that this famous place of learning was indeed a WW1 Hospital, a temporary extension of tents and chalets to the existing Addenbrooke's Hospital, some great photos and history here
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Medical/CambridgeEasternNo1Hospital.html

This was just one of a great many Home War Hospitals created either by expanding existing ones, or creating new, such as in large country houses including Longleat. By 1914 the UK’s fast expanding military hospitals had already been increased to have 7,000 beds, by late 1918 demand meant there were over 350,000 beds all across the UK.

My friend's Grandma Ellen Sewell was one of thousands of civilian Hospital staff who had volunteered as a Territorial Nurse, this was just one part of the Territorial Force first created in 1908 to "defend the country in case of invasion"; even then a European war seemed highly-likely. By an odd coincidence given our earlier mention of Notts County War Hospital, the 1911 Census shows Lincoln-born Ellen as a young probationer-nurse training at another Nottinghamshire Hospital. Like many of our modern Hospitals this originated as the Infirmary for the local Workhouse (Bagthorpe), like so many this Hospital was substantially enlarged during WW1. As terrible as WW1 was, there is perhaps a consolation - it seems to have been key to the very foundation of most of the hospitals which make up our NHS.

Very luckily for my researches the National Archives held not only Ellen Sewell's Medal card, so a few clues to her nursing history, but also 48 images of her personal letters and records from that time, a real treasure !
TNA is easily the best online source of nursing records, eg
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=ellen+sewell
Altho' the search findings seemed routine at first glance, clicking the understated "preview this record" tab gave great excitement, I do hope others are as lucky as we were !

WW1 Nurses may have served in a variety of different organizations at Home and Overseas, many not within the Armed Forces as I had first presumed. This book is a highly recommended guide thro’ this quite complex maze, plus the military Nurses, other Women’s branches of Armed Services, Land Army, etc.
“Tracing Your Service Women Ancestors” by Mary Ingham, many public libraries hold it.

These websites are all excellent sources for further reference;
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/great-war-on-land/casualties-medcal/1140-british...
http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/92.html
http://greatwarnurses.blogspot.co.uk/
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Medical/index.html
http://www.photodetective.co.uk/TFNS.html

The Royal College of Nursing website carries pdf files of their monthly Journals from 1888 to 1956, all fully searchable
http://rcnarchive.rcn.org.uk/
I was able to find interesting background articles about the Bagthorpe Institution Hospital, and the devoted hardwork of Matron E.Dwight who'd been in charge of Ellen's training there during the 1911 Census. Just one example,
http://rcnarchive.rcn.org.uk/data/VOLUME033-1904/page478-volume33-10thdecember1904.pdf

Finally, here are just a few of the great many period film clips on the Pathe website, an excellent source but be beware of occasionally careless cataloguing.
http://www.britishpathe.com/search/query/ww1+nurse

I do hope this is of interest and wish others well researching their Nurses, all hardworking devoted heroes and heroines in their own right.

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WW1 soldiers - ROBERTS family Scowles Coleford (General)

WW1 soldiers

WW1 soldiers - ROBERTS family Scowles Coleford

WW1 soldiers - ROBERTS family Scowles Coleford

WW1 soldier - CONSTANCE Arthur Evan, Longhope, 13th Glosters

WW1 soldier - CONSTANCE Arthur Evan, Longhope, 13th Glosters

WW1 soldier - CONSTANCE Arthur Evan, Longhope, 13th Glosters

WW1 - Researching Nurses & Military Hospitals