What happens if a collier (head of house) is physically down a mine on census night (did they do night shifts)?
Were they put on the census or were they omitted? Were they on a separate census for the mine?
I know for the 1901 census (and probably for others), many people chose to travel anywhere overnight to purposely avoid the census.
Just wondering
Many thanks
Janet
Hi Janet,
I think I'm right in saying that colliers etc wouldn't generally do night shifts except in times of dire need eg the World Wars. The hours underground varied depending on the era, and the regulations which varied thro Victorian times, the farther you go back in time the longer the working day. Also depended on the required output for the mine, dictated by general economic conditions; no EU enforced coal "mountains" then, if they couldn't sell/shift it then the owners wouldn't mine it, hence shorter or no shifts. If there was a shift pattern generally they would work days only, albeit maybe split into "early" (mornings) and "late" (afternoons).
This site is good for learning abt mining in general
http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/home/
Hence most miners were back home on the evening the Census was taken. I've seen cases of people appearing twice on a Census, ie their home and their workplace, usually when the forms were filled out by the home owner themselves not trained officials. However some census officials were clearly far more efficent/carefull than others, so errors could and did occur. If a mine or any other industry was working a nightshift then a census should have been taken there eg large iron and steel works were worked continuously as the blast furnaces had to be kept hot, so demanding a night shift.
Do you have a specific case or problem you'e trying to solve ?. If you can give specific dates ie which Census, then we can give better answers.
The particular census is the 1861
The details are in my recent mail - "Help in general and my Jenkins family in particular"
I am just trying to think of new ways of searching for them - or explaining their apparent disappearance at this time.
Other working hypotheses include travelling preachers or travelling to work in other coalfields.
At the time of the 1861 census I am looking for
Shadrach Jenkins b.1831 age 29/30 collier
Sarah Jenkins b.1827 age 34
John Jenkins b. 1857 age 3 (or 4)
Rachel Jenkins b.1860 age 0 (or 1)
Shadrach, Sarah and John all born Bream
Any search hints or research lines to take would be great.
Many thanks
janet
Hi Janet,
thanks for saying
"The details are in my recent mail - "Help in general and my Jenkins family in particular"
I hadn't realised that despite reading it today, sorry. May I suggest it will help everyone to help you if you please attach queries like this to the existing thread, or at the very least make a cross-reference to it. Many people visit the website every day but may not have the time to read all the old threads, particularly as many posters will be researching different families and lines.
Thanks.
Regarding your specific search, given the names and potential for spelling variations if I were you I'd first search for wife "Sarah" in the "Bream" and then "Breem" area. Yes there may well be a lot more hits to plugh thro but names such as Shadrach can be a real problem to find, especially as in my experience some of the Census transcribers on Ancestry for example (American prison inmates I'm told?, have absolutely no idea on the names and places in our area) and also appear to have no common sense or ability to think laterally....
Also ref the geographical areas you're searching, dont be too specific ! especially with Ancestry, or it will produce numerous irrelevant hits as far away as GLoucester or even Bristol before finding the correct ones "hidden" under "Wales" etc. !.
I'm from the eastern Cinderford side of the Forest, we very rarely visited Monmouth on the far western side of the Forest yet often went east thro Westbury on Severn etc. So for fifty years my mindset was the Forest is in Gloucestershire, England, which technically it is. However it was a real surprise to me on starting my FH research to find my ancestors in Lydbrook and Coleford were listed as being under "Monmouth", or even "Wales", hence I didnt find them or ignored these hits when using Ancestry etc. I should have realised, as like all? Foresters I had to visit Monmouth to take my driving test c1980. Now I've learnt the Western side of the Forest in Victorian times was administered from Monmouth, in a different county & country !, albeit only just t'other side across the Wye border.
As well as using those sites the LDS "Family Search" website can be VERY helpfull indeed.
Off out to cut the grass now, I'll try and post more later, J.
Hi
No problem - was only trying to answer your specific question re is there a particular census.
I will copy over the relevant info to the active thread referred to.
Happy mowing
Janet
Thats fine Janet, don't bother linking it this time. If I'd have realised the dates clearly my answer could have been more specific so more usefull; perhaps I should have asked for clarification first.
Please have another look at my post above, I've just editted it to hopefully help your search.
Thanks !
- David Richard's Family Tree = gives Rachel's parents as Shadrach JENKINS and Sarah DAVIS
and ….
Freereg
Married at Caverswall St Peter - Staffordshire - 17 February 1881
William COOMBS BOURNE - age 25, Bachelor : occupation, Tailor, abode: East Vale
Grooms father: James BOURNE, Potter
married
Rachel JENKINS - age 20, Spinster, abode East Vale
Brides father: Shadrak JENKINS, Miner
witnessses: Susan Jane MYATT and John JENKINS
Notes: Groom's father deceased
---
1881 Census, Staffordshire, Trentham
19 Peel Street
Elizabeth MYATT - age 64
Elizabeth MYATT, Niece age 15
and lodgers
Shadrach JENKINS - 49 - born Bream
John JENKINS - 24 -
-------
children
Lily Kate - 1881
Arthur William - 1883
Sarah Elizabeth - 1885
Gertrude - 1887
Ethel - 1888
Mona - 1891
Annie - 1893
Ada - 1895
Lavinia Lucy - 1898
Frank - 1899
Alice - 1902
Millicent - 1903
Freebdm: Marriage J/F/M Qtr 1881 - Cheadle to Rachel JENKINS
Staffordshirebmd
William C BOURNE, married Rachel JENKINS 1881 - Caverswall St Peter, Newcastle Under Lyme
---
1911 Census
20 California Street
Longton
Stoke-on-Trent
BOURNE
married 30 years - 13 children born alive, 12 living, 1 dead
William - 55 - Tailor, born Longton, Staffordshire
Rachel - 50 - born Gloucestershire, Bream
Annie - 18 - all born Staffordshire
Adie - 16
Lucy - 13
Frank - 11
Alice - 9
Millient - 7
---
1901 Rachel says she was born in Gloucestershire, Gloucester
----
1891 Census, Rachel (born Gloucestershire, Stroud)
Staffordshire, Stone, Longton
8 Lower Spring
Lodging with Mary & Frederick JONES
William BOURNE - 35 - Tailor, born Staffs, Longton
Rachel - 30 - born Gloucester, Stroud
Arthur - 7 - born Staffs Longton
Elizabeth - 6 - born ditto
Gertrude - 4 - ditto
Ethel - 2
YES! Yeah - you smashed a brick wall for me!
I had all the pieces you quote but did not have the connection that THIS Rachel was MY Rachel! The witnesses clinch it as I already had Shadrach and John as lodgers years ago.
WOW - bless you - you managed to find the record when I had failed.
I go to bed a happy bunny - after I have logged the info etc.
I was interested in the Bourne connection for another reason. Rachel's father is part of my maternal line. My paternal grandmother was a Bourne too. Just wondered whether, unknowingly, sort of cousins had married ...
Many thanks again for taking the time and interest.
Janet
The 1881 Census for Frederick Street, Stoke on Trent - ties up the witnesses at the wedding of William & Rachel
William BOURNE and the MYATT's
No. 75 on the Schedule
Thomas MYATT - Head - 40 Potter -
Susannah J - age 37
Thomas - 15
Jonas - 11
Hannah E - 6
Edgar - 4
David - 4
Joseph BARKER - 44 - Coal Miner
No. 77 on the Schedule
William E BOURNE - Head - Mar - 26 - Tailor, born Stoke on Trent Staffordshire
Rachall - 20 - born Gloutershire
---
Staffordshirebmd
http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk
A number of the baptisms give the mother's maiden name - you have to search by year e.g.
BOURNE/Mother's maiden name JENKINS
1881 - BOURNE - Lily Kate - Sub-District :Trentham
1883 - BOURNE - Arthur William - Trentham
1884 - BOURNE - Sarah Elizabeth - Trentham
1887 - BOURNE - Gertrude - Trentham
1888 - BOURNE - Ethel - Sub-District: Longton
1891 - BOURNE - Mona - Sub-District : Trentham
1893 - BOURNE - Hannah - Sub-District : Longton
1895 - BOURNE - Ada - Sub-District: Trentham
1897 - BOURNE - William Evan - Sub-District: Longton
1898 - BOURNE - Lavinia Lucy - Sub-District: Longton
1899 - BOURNE - Frank James - Sub-District: Longton
1902 - BOURNE - Alice - Sub-District: Longton
1903 - BOURNE - Millicent - Sub-District: Longton
Rachel Jenkins' father and older brother John were lodgers at
1881 census
Household: 19 Peel Street, Trentham RG11/2695 / 126 / 18
Elizabeth Myatt head W female 64 Fulford, Staff
Elizabeth Myatt neice U female 15 Dresden potters paintress
Shadrach Jenkins border M male 49 Bream, Staff coal miner
John Jenkins border U male 24 Bream, Staff coal miner
Maybe Thomas Myatt at Frederick St was a son?
Wonder why Susan(ah) Jane Myatt was a witness - William's choice I assume so maybe a sister.
Janet
As I was typing this message, although I had only logged in a few minutes - by the time I'd typed this out the first time, I was told my session had expired and had to re-type piecemeal!
----
Freebdm Thomas MYATT married Susannah BARKER - O/N/D Qtr 1865, Cheadle
--
Thomas MYATT and Susannah J BARKER's tree are on Ancestry (on the 1881 census Joseph BARKER is their lodger and a Miner) probably met your JENKINS men at work.
Thomas MYATT's parents were Joseph MYATT and Elizabeth
Susannah's father - Joseph was a Proprietor of cottages
Freereg
Marriage at St Peter, Caverswall - 13 November 1865
Thomas MYATT - age 24, Bachelor, Potter
father: Joseph MYATT - Potter
married
Susannah BARKER - age 24
father: James BARKER, Potter
witnesses: George MYATT and Marianne REYNOLDS
----
On the 1871 Census Peel Street, Bluton
William MYATT - 42, China turner, born Longton
Elizabeth - 49 - born Fulford
Ann Elizabeth - 5 - niece born Dresden
1861 Census, Cobden Street, Trentham
William MYATT - 32, Potter Turner, born Stoke
Elizabeth MYATT - 42 - born Fulford
Sorry about the disconnect but many thanks for your efforts not only for the research but also for the trouble to re-type it all!
The research you have done meshes nicely with what I had done to answer the questions
"Who was Susan Jane Myatt?" and Why was she chosen as a witness?"
All part of the "proof" we seek to know we have the right person on the tree!
Many thanks again for your efforts
Janet
Don't know the answer to this but I would expect that he would be recorded as living there. However, anyone staying at someone else's house that night is usually listed as a visitor.
Rachel was my GGM. Ethel my GM.
Pleased to meet you!
Rachel Jenkins was the older sister to my g-grandmother Sarah Hannah Jenkins. Rachel Jenkins became Rachel Bourne and Sarah be came Sarah Redman. The Bournes and Redmans were in the same part of the Potteries.
We must be chasing the same information on Shadrach Jenkins and Sarah Davis!
And we are 3rd cousins once removed - I think
One "brick wall" at the moment is in tracing Sarah Davis line - Shadrach's wife.
Janet
PS - In your Bournes research, have you come across a Maud Bourne?
Hi
I do recall an Aunt Maud but not sure where from. I will try and find out.
I was informed a few years ago about Rachel’s daughter Annie who was my grandmothers sister. The story was that she had been killed by her husband but no records existed. I spent years trying to find out what happened to her and by chance this year found a really sad story.
She lost two husbands in WW1 in Flanders. And married again after the war. In 1929 her husband killed her in Longton, Stoke on Trent leaving three children. However I located a grave just a few hundred yards from my home where both are buried. Also I have newspaper articles about it. A really sad story and a bit strange that they were buried together.
Seems to be a few mysteries around the JENKINS family desendants.
Regards
Hi, William C Bourne was a tailor who lived and worked for much of his life in Longton. I am told he was a very smart man, always dressed in a smart suit and bowler hat, he was however under 5 feet tall.
He was a well know character apparently in the area, regularly seen walking or even marching down anchor road onto market street on his way to work. I understand that the family, including the wider family were big church people many linked to St Michaels in Dresden. Below is a link to a photo of the shop where he worked as a tailor, now called Alderley Property.
http://www.thepotteries.org/streets/longton/commerce_st/beck.jpg
