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I wonder if anyone has any suggestions about Caroline please.

CAROLINE MARIA PRITCHARD d/o PHILIP & HANNAH PRITCHARD bapt. BLAKENEY, 1857

CAROLINE m. FREDERICK HATCH May 24 1880 ( Frederick poss ALFRED ) s/o Wm Hatch

1881 CAROLINE HATCH with mother HANNAH PRITCHARD in Awre
1881 ALFRED HATCH with parents in Hartpury
1881 MARY JANE HATCH bapt. 9 May d/o FRED & CAROLINE HATCH / Viney Hill.

I cannot find a death for CAROLINE HATCH & wondered just what happened to her.

1891
ALFRED HATCH & daughter JANE aged 9 b. Viney Hill living with an ELIZABETH CLIFFORD a widow in Hartpury
ALFRED HATCH describes himself as married.

ALFRED HATCH goes on to marry ELIZABETH CLIFFORD in 1902.
ALFRED HATCH describes himself as widower 1902.

Patsy

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?

At the moment, no trace of a burial of her mother Hannah (born Ireland) either, unless it's the one in Cheltenham District, Charlton Kings in 1885 (age 67) - perhaps they went back to Ireland.

1881 Census Awre

Hannah PRITCHARD - unmarried 63, born Ireland
Caroline HATCH - 22 Boarder, born Awre

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In the Gloucester Journal Saturday 14 August 1880

I hereby give NOTICE that I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE for any DEBTS contracted by my Wife, CAROLINE HATCH – FREDERICK HATCH

Hartpury, Gloucester, Aug. 13, 1880

Confirms the rift, I suppose.

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This one too provides some background, although not good reading,

Gloucester Journal Saturday 22 March 1890

WESTBURY ON SEVERN BOARD OF GUARDIANS

A VIOLENT WOMAN

The clerk mentioned a case which presented some very peculiar features, and was exceedingly difficult to deal with. It appeared that a man named Frederick HATCH, a farm labourer of Hartpury, married a daughter of a woman living at Blakeney, named PRITCHARD, and they lived together for 14 weeks, but at the end of that time the wife went home to her mother and had not since lived with her husband. A child was born in due course, and ever since its birth it had lived with its grandmother, and in the meantime the mother had left home, and her present whereabouts were unknown.........

...........Mrs Pritchard had become chargeable to the Union, and also the child, and consequently the father had been requested by the Guardians to fetch the child away or maintain her. The man refused to maintain the child……….

There is a good deal more about violence from the grandmother when the child was removed to the Workhouse – hence the headline – and further threats if she herself were forced to go there.

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Many, many thanks for the information.

How shocking. CAROLINE HATCH must have died before 1902 or declared dead.

Do you have the link to the Gloucester Newspaper? How awful to leave your child. Dreadful for the little girl, poor husband and mother.

I just wondered if PHILIP PRITCHARD/ CAROLINE's father related to a candidate for PHILIP PRITCHARD s/o JAMES bapt. 1818 Llangattock Vibon Avel nr Monmouth. PHILIP & HANNAH's children including CAROLINE have the same names as PHILIP PRITCHARD (b.1818 LVA) sisters and mother. I cannot see PHILIP in 1881 although your records have a burial for a PHILIP in 1885.

I wondered if JAMES PRITCHARD also in BLAKENEY might relate but instead of being born 1813 in DINGESTOW it says I think DIXTON although the spellings are strange on the census.

I wonder if I can clarify this or perhaps I need to send the certificate...

BMD has PHILIP PRI(T)CHARD father JAMES m. HANNAH PARSONS 1856 but she is described as m. 1856 HANNAH PAYNE on this site.

Patsy

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Hi Patsy,
you say

"BMD has PHILIP PRI(T)CHARD father JAMES m. HANNAH PARSONS 1856 but she is described as m. 1856 HANNAH PAYNE on this site."

First, when you say BMD, do you mean FreeBMD or GlosBMD ?. Or maybe both ?; ideally they should both show the same records but I don't think that's always true, but am happy to be told otherwise.

This (FoD)site's PR does indeed say Hannah Payne, a WIDOW, and describes her father as Patrick BROWN. The Marriage is in 1853.

Record_ID: 1215
Entry_Number: 147
Year: 1853
Month: Oct
Day: 17
Grooms_Surname: PRICHARD
Grooms_Forenames: Philip
Grooms_Age: full age
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Blakeney
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Prichard
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: James
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Brides_Surname: PAYNE
Brides_Forenames: Hannah
Brides_Age: full age
Brides_Condition: Widow
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Blakeney
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Brown
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Patrick
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Farmer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both Mark
Witness_1: Mark of Jeremiah Long[?]
Witness_2: Thomas Cadogan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: J. H. Malpas Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 74
Parish_Chapel: Awre
Soundex_Groom: P626
Soundex_Bride: P500

Normally such a PR would imply that Hannah's maiden name was Brown, and she's the widow of previous husband Payne.

However as you say FreeBMD states;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1853 (>99%)
------------------------------------------
Parsons Hannah Westbury on S. 6a 397
Prichard Philip Westbury .S. 6a 397

Knowing that FreeBMD is very fussy about spellings, I've repeated searches for marriages 1850-1856 of all variations of Phil(l)ip Pri(t)chard, but cannot find any other records.

Repeating the search on GlosBMD, which is usually more receptive to mispellings, even here we must still search both variations of Pri(t)chard separately, but still only finds;

Marriage Details

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
PRICHARD Philip PARSONS Hannah Forest of Dean Awre St Andrew 1853 1 148
PRICHARD Philip BROWN Hannah Forest of Dean Awre St Andrew 1853 1 148

As you probably know this is GlosBMD's usual way of showing the bride is a Mrs Parsons, nee Brown; so matches the FreeBMD info.
I suggest you request a check of the original PR, it's not inconceivable that a poorly-handwritten "Payne" could have been incorrectly transcribed as "Parsons" ?
Hopefully that is the explanation here.
Equally, such a mistake could also have occurred when the original PR was transcribed for the official BMD entries, I believe a separate process to the later transcriptions of the PRs on this FoD site.
(see this form http://www.forest-of-dean.net/index.php/record-corrections)

--------------

Searching her father for possible clues, I cannot find ANY Patrick Brown(e) at all in the FoD PRs.
There are several within GlosBMD, but all long after the 1853 marriage. The name Patrick does perhaps backup Hannah's "born Ireland" claim in 1881.
As I'm sure you have done too, I've searched for Hannah/Anna Parsons/Payne/Brown within GlosBMD hoping to find a previous marriage etc, but without luck.

I see from Ancestry that the 1881 Census shows Hannah's birth in Ireland as "abt 1819".
My very quick glance at her neighbours doesn't show any obvious relatives eg Pritchard, but maybe worth further scrutiny

Ancestry also shows her in the 1901 Census, "born Ireland abt 1810, living alone in Viney Woodside, Blakeney, Awre.

And in the 1861 Wales Census, a Monmouth household has the following lodgers;

Phillip Pritchard, age 34 (born abt 1827), Ag Lab born Monmouth,
Hannah Pritchard, age 36 (born abt 1825), born Cork, Ireland,
Caroline Pritchard, age 3 (born abt 1858), born Blakeney, Glos,
Jane Pritchard, age 1, (born abt 1860), born Blakeney, Glos.

(I cannot read the given address, looks like ????bridge Street ?. They are next door to the Red Lion inn. The only online reference to such a place suggests it is now part Monmouth's Haberdashers School;
"More modern developments include the Hall of 1961, redeveloped in the early 21st century and now the Blake Theatre, the Red Lion Block of the same date (currently being redeveloped)" ?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monmouth_School.
Sadly my poorly pc cannot currently access any of the Old Maps websites for further clues.

Ignoring the parents' given ages, the names and birthplaces seem a VERY good match !

Finally, the 1871 England Census for Bream's Eaves has this household;
Phillip Pritchard, born abt 1819, Monmouth, a labourer with "bad sight"
Anne Pritchard, born abt 1821, Cork Ireland
Caroline Pritchard, born abt 1859, Blakeney Glos
Jane Pritchard, born abt 1861, Blakeney Glos
Elizabeth Pritchard, born abt 1854, Dixton S.Wales.

(continued)

------------------

LATER UPDATE!

Ref witness Thomas CADOGAN at Phillip and Hannah's marriage, please see this new post and the Cadogan thread it's linked into, thanks.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=entry&id=45157

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Patsy, I see 1871 Census shows Elizabeth Pritchard was born in Dixton, so just a mile or so upriver from Monmouth. Is this a possible link to your mention of James Pritchard in Dixton ?

This site's FoD PRs has her marriage, I think;

Record_ID: 1311
Entry_Number: 244
Year: 1879
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: BARBER
Grooms_Forenames: Stephen George
Grooms_Age: 21
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Miner
Grooms_Residence: Blakeney
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Barber
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Laborer
Brides_Surname: PRITCHARD
Brides_Forenames: Elizabeth
Brides_Age: 19
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: Blakeney
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Pritchard
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Mark of Charles Barber
Witness_2: Millinda Barber
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: W. R. Savage Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P30 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 122
Parish_Chapel: Awre
Soundex_Groom: B616
Soundex_Bride: P632

Record_ID: 163549
Entry_Number: 719
Year: 1859
Month: Jan
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: BARBER
Child_Forenames: Stephen George
Fathers_Forenames: John
Mothers_Forenames: Maria
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Old Furnace Bottom
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: C. Brookshank
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P50 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 90

And here's Jane;

Record_ID: 163478
Entry_Number: 648
Year: 1857
Month: Oct
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: PRITCHARD
Child_Forenames: Sarah Jane
Fathers_Forenames: Philip
Mothers_Forenames: Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Blakeney
Occupation: Labourer
Officiating_Minister: C. Brookshank
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P50 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 81
Parish_Chapel: Blakeney
Soundex: P632

Not a rare name in this area, so need Census' to plot later life events.

Hoping this helps, J

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Apologies to Patsy and big thanks to MPG for showing my error in posting a 1857 Baptism for Sarah Jane Pritchard. Despite some similarities I should have spotted this birth was a few years early wrt the Census's dates.

Further searching shows this child sadly died only a few months later,

From GlosBMD (and FreeBMD);

Death Details

Surname Given Names Age Year Died District Register Entry
PRITCHARD Sarah Jane 11w 1858 Westbury on Severn, Newnham 9 212

Thanks again MPG !

---------

Also big thanks to Mike for resolving my Monmouth Map Misery, I really MUST visit and get to know Monmouth sometime soon, been 30 years since I last visited !
Found it esp frustrating last night as I'm awaiting delivery of a Monmouth Old Photos book, no doubt it will show Drybridge and the Red Lion !. Hope I was right in thinking it's near Haberdashers School ?.

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Drybridge Street is the opposite end of town to the Haberdashers School (My old school 1952 - 1958!). As mentioned earlier Drybridge Street is by Monnow Bridge whereas the school is by Wyebridge Street and the Wye Bridge.

Mike

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Thanks Mike, you clearly cannot beat local knowledge !. Guess there's been more than one Red Lion over the years. Thanks to you I'm getting a better minds-eye of the town now. My most recent recollections are Friday nights driving up the A40 "motorway" from college near Cardiff, thro the tunnel then emergency stop at the "surprising" traffic lights, I thought by the School?. Turn right over the Wye? towards the Forest. A year or two before this c1980, driving lessons and test! in Monmouth, a seemingly OVERwide "High" Street towards ? the old fortified Bridge (over the Monnow?). A few beers after bussed swim-meets at Monmouth pool and that's it !. Shamefully ignorant of the town's obvious historical attractions with the Castle museum etc etc, MUST have a good look round next summer.

Thanks again, and does your schooling mean I can please send you my trouser repairs ;-)

I'll leave this thread(boom-boom) to you guys now, too many false leads for this amateur to unpick; just searched Ancestry high & low for any trace of an Irish-born Hannah(Anna) Parsons, Brown and even Payne in the 1851 & 1841 Census, no luck whatsoever, ditto father Patrick Brown. Guess they were still in Ireland ?.
Sincerely hope someone else finds them, good luck.

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The former Red Lion Inn was still trading at least until 1911 when Stephen D.Parslow was landlord as per the 1914 Kelly's Directory, ref the revised Historical Directories website http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4
The 1901 Kelly's Directory shows the landlord was John Walter Yates.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~familyalbum/kmon6.htm

The old Inn is now a Listed Building;
Full description and helpful location map here
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/wa-2256-red-lion-house-monmouth

A photo
https://geolocation.ws/v/W/File:Monmouth%2016%20Drybridge%20Street%20formerly%20the%20R...

This photo includes the houses next-door to the Inn, one of which was apparently occupied by the Pritchard family at the time of the 1861 Census.
https://geolocation.ws/v/W/File%3AHandsome%20house%20on%20Drybridge%20Street%20-%20geog...

Goodness knows why my earlier searches didn't find these, had all the right words but presumably not in the right order...

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Unfortunately I don`t have the Awre marriage register to hand, but I have made a note to check it on my next visit to Gloucester Arcives in the New Year.

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Many thanks Graham. Patsy

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Graham has now checked the transcript against the original and here are his findings:
“The bride`s surname is difficult to read, but I think it should be PARSONS not PAYNE.
Also the first Witnesses is "the mark of Jeremiah Leary" the second Witness is as transcribed Thomas Cadogan.”

The database has therefore been updated accordingly.

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Many thanks for the information and the up date. It was kind of you to check. Regards,Patsy

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Many thanks for your informative reply. I apologize if this too long

I think I might have to send for the marriage certificate although it possibly will not give me any other clue. It is strange that I cannot find HANNAH PRITCHARD in 1891 or PHILIP PRITCHARD in 1881.

No trace of CAROLINE HATCH.

Her two sisters married and have traced the Barbers to Lancashire / miners and the Astons to Castleford.

No idea about the other sister r Jane Pritchard..

Candidate for PHILIP PRITCHARD b. 1818 Llangattock Vibon Avel . Yes I think the children's names and his father's name ( James) point to it .

I will send for that death certificate PHILIP PRITCHARD 1885.

Children of Philip & Hannah.

The first two b.1857 Blakeney ie CAROLINE MARIA and SARAH JANE have same registration so think must be twins. There is a burial for SARAH JANE in 1858.

A big thank you.

Patsy

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The Church of Latter Day Saints - list Hannah as Hannah PARSONS on her marriage to Philip

----

'No idea about the other sister Jane PRITCHARD' (aged 10 1871 census)

?

Gloucestershire BMD

Albert ETHERIDGE married Jane PRITCHARD Forest of Dean, Westbury on Severn, Register Office 1880

and Jane's birth

1860 - Westbury on Severn, Newnham - PRITCHARD, mother's former name BROWN

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May I thank you all for kindly looking/ searching for the elusive Pritchards and Hannah Parsons/Payne.

It must have taken you ages and I appreciate it.

Wonderful to have the Jane Pritchard marriage.

A big thank you.

Patsy

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The Glos Archives Genealogical website is always worth searching, especially as it's very user-friendly wrt spelling variations etc.
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

I've searched Hannah Prichard/Brown/Parsons and have found the following hit which is clearly our Hannah. Hopefully ordering the relevant Document will give more info, but I've no experience of using this service. If you do this Patsy, and the findings aren't too scandalous, we'd be grateful to get a flavour of just how much extra info is available and if it's good value, thanks.

Cannot give a direct link, but if you search Hannah Pritchard from the above website you'll find this info, and can also order a copy of the Document.

"1855. Hannah Pritchard. Age 28. Public address, Blakeney. Labourer's wife.
Date of Committal 15th March 1855. County Cork, Ireland. Document Reference Q/Gc6/3."

Unclear to me whether the Cork reference is just her stated Birthplace, as seems likely, or the Place of Committall.

You might find more details c/o the British Newspaper Archive.

Sorry Patsy to bring more bad news.

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On Ancestry Criminal Records - 20 March 1855

Hannah PRITCHARD was given one month hard labour for larcency.

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I did not know about these Ancestry records. At least it was larceny and not something worse. Such hard times.

Can only feel sorry for her family in 1855.

At least she did not have children ( that we know of), the twins were born in 1857.

Many thanks,
Patsy

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Oh my goodness Gaol!!!....... I have yet to look but will order and let you know. It is facinating.

My only worry is that this Philip says b. Monmouth and not be one of my Pritchards of Llangattock Vibon Avel

Regarding The Red Lion- my maternal line connects to the YATES/YEATES who ran THE RED LION & not connected to the Pritchard family as far as I know.

Some time ago on this Forum we discussed THOMAS YEATES/YATES ( occ. shoe maker amongst other things) m. ELIZABETH SMITH ( Eliz. had Greengrocer in Monnow St). ELIZABETH SMITH was b. Blakeney .

Will look at the 1861 Pritchards at The Red Lion. Again so many thanks. Patsy

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How interesting you have another line (Yates) linking you to the Red Lion c1901. I don't recall who the landlords were in 1861 when the Pritchards were living next door, surely more than coincidence if it were still the same Yates family as was often true of the old days. Maybe worth browsing the 1861 Monmouth for Yates neighbours if not at the pub.

Thanks MPG for looking up the Gaol record, I forgot my Ancestry subscription allows that, I don't think their pointers suggested that record when I searched Hannah despite the big Ireland clue ?. I see Hannah again fibs about her age, but none of us liked turning 30 !.

Patsy, you query Phillip's birthplace wrt Monmouth ?. Do you have his precise Baptism record, or are you referring to the Census ?. If just the Census then it's quite likely that he wasn't being geographically-precise by stating "Monmouth", I've seen several Census records that are far from specific, and some are just plain wrong due I think to lazy/forgetful Census officials. I'm thinking he may have meant/thought Monmouthshire, I don't think people thought/spoke in terms of "shires" in those days. Or maybe the Census official didn't want to try and fit "Llangattock Vibon Avel" onto the form ? At the end of the day from a Census viewpoint it's pretty accurate, being only a few miles from Monmouth town as you know (I'm afraid I had to look it up...).
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/LlangattockVibonAvel/index.html

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Sorry Patsy for not seeing your earlier post re Phillips baptism,

"just wondered if PHILIP PRITCHARD/ CAROLINE's father related to a candidate for PHILIP PRITCHARD s/o JAMES bapt. 1818 Llangattock Vibon Avel nr Monmouth."

So if I read it correctly, I think you're looking to possibly connect the above Baptism with Hannah's husband Phillip ?

Is this because you believe that Llangattock is definitely your area ?

----

I see from Ancestry's 1841,1851 Census' there are a few possible Phillip Pri(t)chards born Monmouth(shire) around this time... ??? At least I can't see any likely candidates stated as b. Glosterhire, eg Forest, Awre, Blakeney.

Thankfully given Hannah's Cork background I'm sure the census' I posted earlier DO relate to her Phillip, namely

1871 England Census for Bream's Eaves has this household;
Phillip Pritchard, born abt 1819, Monmouth, a labourer with "bad sight"
Anne Pritchard, born abt 1821, Cork Ireland
Caroline Pritchard, born abt 1859, Blakeney Glos
Jane Pritchard, born abt 1861, Blakeney Glos
Elizabeth Pritchard, born abt 1854, Dixton S.Wales.

1861 Wales Census, Drybridge St next to Red Lion, Monmouth has the following lodgers;
Phillip Pritchard, age 34 (born abt 1827), Ag Lab born Monmouth,
Hannah Pritchard, age 36 (born abt 1825), born Cork, Ireland,
Caroline Pritchard, age 3 (born abt 1858), born Blakeney, Glos,
Jane Pritchard, age 1, (born abt 1860), born Blakeney, Glos.

We know the given ages can be unreliable, sadly.
I think "b Monmouth" could easily mean Monmouth area, if not Shire.

SO WHERE IS PHILLIP IN 1851, 1841 etc ?.

----

Patsy, do you also think this is the right path to follow next, please confirm, thanks ?

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Am trying to work out the witness i.e. Jeremiah LONG (?) who is a witness at the wedding of Phillip and Hannah (Ann)

This name is not common - and he doesn't witness any other marriage on the records.

? How would a girl from Cork - end up in Blakeney

?

1851 Census, Awre

Living at Daniels

Georgina LONG - 45, unmarried, Domestic Duties, born London City (buried at Awre, residence, Blakeney - 25 January 1881) **
James HOWDEN - 25 - Sawyer, born Salop
Ellen O'Neil - Widow - 50 Female Servant, born Ireland, County of Cork

---

Georgina Gwilliam LONG - christened at Saints Giles, London - 24 November 1805 - parents : Josh & Frances

---

On the 1871 census, Georgina G LONG is in West Dean aged 65, born Middlesex, London - (just below a Gwilliam family, not sure about any connection)

---

??

There is a marriage at Monmouth - 31 January 1867, when James GWILLIAM married Ann BRISTOW - (illegible) LONG, Georgina LONG and Blanche E LONG were witnesses

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Good thinking M, as always.

My own past researches show several LONGS in the Gloster area. I've just lookedup Blanch Long on Ancestry and wonder if this properous household is relevant, it includes a Georgina E Long too, I think the 1867 Marriage witnesses ?. Hopefully this helps you.

1871 Census for 20, Monk Street, Monmouth.

Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country

Favell G D Long. Head, income from land. 55 1816 Female London England
Georgina E F Long. Daughter. 30 1841 Female London England
Emily N L Long. Daughter. 26 1845 Female Sydenham Kent England
Ellen L Long. Daughter. 23 1848 Female Long Ditton Surrey England
Fanny L A Long. Daughter. 21 1850 Female Long Ditton Surrey England
Favell B Long. Daughter. 19 1852 Female Worthing Sussex England
Blanche E Long. Daughter. 13 1858 Female Cheltenham Gloucestershire England
Caroline Daweerey. Lady's maid. 30 1841 Female Wotton Under Edge Gloucestershire England
Maria Daweerey. Domestic servant. 16 1855 Female Wotton Under Edge Gloucestershire England
Leah Morgan. Domestic Servant. 36 1835 Female Monmouthshire Wales
Hannah Lewis. Cook 36 1835 Female Grosmont Herefordshire England

The 1861 Census shows this family at "The Falls" Llandogo, the Head was John Wakeman LONG, solicitor born 1813, Worcestershire.
Presumably he could sign his name, so not the witness who marked for Phillip/Hannah in 1853; could they be father & son ?.

Hope this helps, J

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Again so many thanks to everyone for their efforts.

PHILIP PRITCHARD was at St MAUGHANS nr MONMOUTH 1841 and 1851.

Philip was aged 28 in 1841 should be 23 but if a copy taken 23 might be read as 28 .

1818 Feb 19th PHILIP PRITCHARD Baptism LVA s/o JAMES & JANE

1841 St Maughans :
JANE 58 his mother a widow
THOMAS 12
SARAH 25
PHILIP 28 ( Had siblings Jane , Caroline and William).
-----------------
1851 St Maughans /Church Farm
Philip Pritchard 27 b. Llangattock carter ( should be older )
-----------------

I also looked at Jeremiah Long with no luck. Mr Cadogan was the Parish Clerk at Blakeney

------

1841 I did find a HANNAH PARSONS b. 1817 in Bermondsey Workhouse, a pauper & widow born Ireland but if our candidate how did she then arrive in FOD.

JANE PRITCHARD d/o Philip & Hannah m. ALBERT ETHERIDGE 1880

Cannot see an ALBERT & JANE ETHERIDGE on the census 1881 onwards but on the newspaper site there are bits about a JANE ETHERIDGE being involved in disputes with friends and on 26 July 1884 JANE ETHERIDGEof VINEY HILL WOODSIDE summoned by PC NEWPORT for being drunk and disorderly on 19th July 5s costs or 7 days...

Do not know if one and same JANE.

Patsy

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Hi Patsy,
thanks for the info abt Phillip, very helpful.

I too saw the Hannah Parsons in the Bermondsey workhouse c1841 and thought she was a possible if not a probable, until I remembered that she would/should ?? have been a Brown not a Parsons then ??, or maybe not.. so many variables. But now I wonder if the Patrick Brown link is more fiction than fact, he only seems to appear in her marriage record after all.
Re how/why she got to the FoD, as you know a great many people, particularly girls into domestic service, went t'other way via the canal/GWR mainline to find work in London thro' Paddington. Many Irishmen went there for the great canal/railway/house building projects of the 1800s. I should have posted last night my feelings were that maybe Hannah, or another relative of hers, travelled from London to Monmouth with the Blanche LONG family - judging from my quick look at the Census' the LONGS made their money while living in London before moving to Cheltenham(several LONGS thereabouts) and settling in Monmouth. I do feel they are a strong link, why else might such a well-to-do family be witnesses at Hannah's wedding (NO disrespect to Hannah but they seem to be a social-class apart) ??

Re the Etheridges too me that seemed an unsual name, so hopefully easier to trace, but if my memory serves me right the PRs show they aren't that rare in the Awre area after all ?.

A tricky one !

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Yes that might be the scenario.

I have not looked at the" Blanch Longs"in detail but will explore the connection. It does seem likely. Great detective work.

I have yet to look at JAMES PRITCHARD of BLAKENEY in detail .

JAMES PRITCHARD ( Blakeney) had a son also called Philip so think it likely that a brother.

James PRITCHARD of BLAKENEY has his place of birth as DIXTON, which as I said worries me, my candidate was baptized in Dingestow.

But perhaps they moved and that was the nearest church....

Patsy

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I see Dixton(Mons) is abt 4 miles from Dingestow, an easy stroll for Foresters in those days.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?MON,SO520135,5,Dixton%20Newton

This forum's seen several cases of Baptisms and Marriages taking place outside of a family's usual Parish. This may be to be away from "prying" eyes and gossip if, for example, the birth is out of wedlock, or a marriage without parent's consent or if underage. Is this a possibility here, I don't know ?. But then again, maybe they had just moved ?.

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Dingestow/Dixton:

First child William Pritchard was bapt. Tregare 1811 , then JAMES PRITCHARD 13.10.1813 at Dingestow nr to Tregare

There were other children then PHILIP PRITCHARD 19.2.1818 ( candidate m. Hannah possibly)

Cannot see JAMES P. in 1841, he was in Newland/ 1845.

JAMES P. of Blakeney m. MARY MONTGOMERY 15.11.1845 NEWLAND

You mentioned Llandogo and the Longs.

James Pritchard's wife Mary Montgomery was from Llandogo and their son Philip was b. 1849 ish /Llandogo.

It's like unravelling knitting!

Patsy

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I have now received the Death Certificate for PHILIP PRITCHARD a Farm Labourer, aged 55 years d. 6th Feb.1883 at OLD FURNACE.

The person present at the death was -

SARAH JAMES ( X) of OLD FURNACE ,EAST DEAN.

I cannot find any trace of PHILIP on the 1881 census.

Not sure if this is Philip the ex husband of Hannah . Had hoped that it might lead somewhere.

I note Old Furnace is a sub district of Newnham on the certificate and wonder how far from Blakeney?

Patsy

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?

Fod Records

Burial at Viney Hill - 10 February 1883

Philip PRITCHARD - age 55 years
residence: Woodside

and

Marriage at Viney Hill - 24 May 1880

Frederick HATCH - age 21, Bachelor, residence: Viney Hill
father: William HATCH - labourer

married

Caroline PRITCHARD - age 21, Spinster, Servant, residence: Viney Hill
father: Philip PRITCHARD, labourer

witnesses: Stephen BARLEY and Hilda WALBY

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Many thanks for your reply.

I presume WOODSIDE is near OLD FURNACE.

1881: I have looked for PHILIP PRITCHARD and a possible for the SARAH JAMES (who is named as registering the death 1883) but cannot find them.

PHILIP PRITCHARD's wife and daughter CAROLINE HATCH are enumerated at Blakeney in 1881

HANNAH PRITCHARD is described as unmarried.

SARAH JAMES:

1881: There is a family JOHN 34 ( b. OLDCROFT) & HARRIET JAMES with children in Old Furnace .

JOHN JAMES had a sister SARAH A. JAMES d/o CHARLES & ANN JAMES aged 18 in 1871 but think I am clutching at straws.

Patsy

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The Old Furnace

If you look at the Blakeney Section (Photographs) - I did add a few years back, an old postcard of the Old Furnace at Blakeney - as my Wickenden family lived at Nibley Mill, which was very close to this area.

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Thank you. A great photo . I presume it is very near Blakeney .

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Hi Patsy,
this webpage should help you, aswell as describing the buildings the site includes tabs to open Maps of the area, the Furnaces area shown on the old photo were just up the valley from Blakeney, no distance at all.
http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/en-353909-1-2-and-3-furnace-valley-awre-gloucester

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Very interesting. My geography of the area is improving. Many thanks for the information. Regards, Patsy

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You're welcome of course Patsy.
I had also meant to include these weblinks, altho I suspect you've already seen the British History site wrt Blakeney. Too much for me to try to summarise within this post, but gives an idea of the long industrial history of the valley.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/glos/vol5/pp14-46

This is a nice FoD website, relatively new I think, it also has some interesting pages abt Blakeney (and the rest of the area).
http://deanweb.info/blakeney.html

Finally, have you looked at the various Old Maps websites, the earliest Ordnance Survey maps should be useful to you as they were published from the late 1800s.
I haven't used this website much myself, it's a relatively new one which appears to be more user-friendly than most, and allows seameless zooming into very close detail. I recommend you open the links into new windows for best viewing.
This link will hopefully go to the earliest OS map of the Blakeney area, c1884. http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453691
This should lead to the general "menu" page, each red box is an individual map http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=11&lat=51.78486&lon=-2.40174&layers=6

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Thank you very much for sending the interesting links .

Have only had a quick look and will study all of these sites in depth after Christmas.

Thanks to everyone for all their help.

Hope that you have a very Happy Christmas. Patsy

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No problem Patsy.

Thanks for your kind words, hope you and yours enjoy a great Christmas too, and all the other forum members too of course.
atb Jeff

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Indeed the BNA has the nature of the offence:-

Cheltenham Chronicle Tuesday 03 April 1855

GLOUCESTERSHIRE QUARTER SESSIONS on Saturday week

ONE MONTHS IMPRISONMENT

…..Hannah PRITCHARD for stealing cordwood at Awre, from Messrs. Coleman and Mayo…….

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Thanks for looking it up Mike. Interesting how the surname Mayo has comeup.

A general question for the forum, if I may. No doubt I should research this meself first and save likely embarrassment, but...

Like MPG I was wondering why Hannah from Cork would settle in Blakeney, I imagine there's not too many Irish descendants there, despite it's access to the sea, Bristol, Cardiff and beyond.

My question is, was Mayo an Irish surname originally ?

Mike's post reminded me of a lad at school name Mayo, not the most obvious FoD surname. However, a quick look at this site's PRs show almost 2000 Mayos, not insignificant, but where did they originate from ?. Was it County Mayo, Ireland ?. Again seems odd as that's about as far west from the Dean as one can get, then again being somewhat remote perhaps this area of Ireland was particularly badly hit during the famines etc ?.

Any thoughts, please ??? (apart from the obvious wrt my sanity)

========

LATER UPDATE:

For starters;

the 1881 UK census shows the Mayo surname is most numerous in Gloucestershire !. Sadly that website does not include Ireland..
http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Map.aspx?name=MAYO&year=1881&altyear=1998&...

PERHAPS the above map hints at the name coming thro the Ports of Bristol and Plymouth, then spreading inland via the GWR ???

--------

This website states

"County Mayo got its name from the diocese of that name which evolved from a 7th century monastery established by Saint Colmán and some English monks on 'the plain of yews', about 3km. south of Balla. Mayo became a diocese in the 12th century, but it was amalgamated with Tuam. When the county was established around 1570, it was called 'Mayo'after the famous monastery and diocese. The Irish name for Mayo is Maigh Eo , which means 'plain of yew-trees'."

http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/en/about-mayo/history/short-introduction-of-county-mayo.html

(NB the Coleman name here as well as your post, Mike...)
--------

Whereas this website suggests a different origin altogether, perhaps because the Irish Mayo is of Gaellic origins, so a different word altogether ?.

"An English and Irish surname, the Mayo family name comes from the Old French term ‘mahieu’ which would mean little Matthew. The spelling variations for Mayo include Mayow, Mayhew, Mayho and Mayhow. A French spelling for Mayo would be Mailhot. In England the earliest Mayo families lived in Cornwall which is in southwest part of the country. From there the Mayo surname spread to most of England. The populations grew in Lancashire, the city of London, Dorset, Herefordshire, Yorkshire and Gloucestershire."

I suspect the spread from Cornwall was due to unemployed tin miners seeking work, plenty came to the Dean.

---
So, not sure what if anything this has achieved, hope someone might find this of interest and even relevant !?

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Interesting indeed. I also knew Mayo's at school in Newent. In fact I have Mayo's as ggrandmother, gggrandfather and ggggfather. These were based around the Much Marcle area of Herefordshire, Redmarley D'Abitot area of Gloucestershire (formerly Worcestershire). This link seem to suggest the surname is not Irish but based on the forename Matthew:-

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Mayo

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Mike,
THANKS for replying. In the belief you'd all think me mad I've just added my own findings to my post. Thankfully they appear to tie in with yours.

It seems you're just as daft as I am, or are you also trying to dodge some housework !?. Only joking, it's nice to think other people have the same curious ideas as I do, or at least have the kindness to humour mine.

atb J

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I don't think any particular significance can be given to the name Mayo lurking around Blakeney. My first teacher in primary school in North London was a Miss Mayo. I doubt if she was Irish because I could understand her clearly. The next teacher I had was a Mrs Butler who was Scottish and I couldn't understand a word she said. In the same way my family name Essex was around in Gloucestershire at least as far back as a marriage at Minchinhampton in 1594 but nobody seems to know how "East Saxon" rolled up there.

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I don't think any particular significance can be given to the name Mayo lurking around Blakeney. My first teacher in primary school in North London was a Miss Mayo. I doubt if she was Irish because I could understand her clearly. The next teacher I had was a Mrs Butler who was Scottish and I couldn't understand a word she said. In the same way my family name Essex was around in Gloucestershire at least as far back as a marriage at Minchinhampton in 1594 but nobody seems to know how "East Saxon" rolled up there.

I am sure that you are correct. Have also found Mayos in Somerset in the 1800s who were not Irish.

It's interesting to seek links. I am going to get back to the Pritchard/Hatch saga in a few days time. Happy New Year everybody. Patsy

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If they were from County Mayo it is important to understand that this was a county in Ireland hit very badly by the famine.
In fact, when people come from Mayo and live in England the following is said to them by other Irish people:
Question "What part of Ireland are you from?"
Answer: "County Mayo."
Response: "God help you!"
This is because many emigrated from there due to the dire poverty.

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If they were from County Mayo it is important to understand that this was a county in Ireland hit very badly by the famine.
In fact, when people come from Mayo and live in England the following is said to them by other Irish people:
Question "What part of Ireland are you from?"
Answer: "County Mayo."
Response: "God help you!"
This is because many emigrated from there due to the dire poverty.

It must have been awful. Thank you for your reply. Patsy

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Seems a harsh sentence for stealing wood... one months hard labour.

Thank you for the information.

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They were very harsh times. Remember that during these times young boys were being transported to Australia for many years just for stealing a sheep. No doubt they just wanted to eat, as Hannah probably wanted to stay warm and cook her meals. There is also long history of strict laws regarding protection of the King's Forests, still very important then for building the Navy's warships which were the very backbone of the British Empire across the world.
I think in those days the well-to-do JPs and Magistrates always came down very firmly on those from the opposite end of the social system, even if they were just trying to survive. I expect an Irish girl, much like the gypsies and suchlike, could get "special" treatment in this respect. Even in our days the Vurristers are usually wary if not suspicious of Vurriners...

This website gives an idea as to what sentences were commonplace during the early to mid 1800s.
http://www.convictrecords.com.au/crimes/larceny

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The address at the time of the 1861 Census is Drybridge Street which is near Monnow Bridge. The Red Lion is now a house and is Number 16 Drybridge Street.

Mike

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Thank you Mike. I have bought a token for the newspaper site. What a sad story.

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The sadness continues:-

Gloucester Journal Saturday 09 May 1896

DEATHS

HATCH – May 2, at the Infirmary, Gloucester, Jane HATCH of Hartpury, aged 15 years.

There is also a report of an assault on her, aged 11, in 1892(although the alleged assailant was acquitted). Not the best of lives.

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Thank you Mike. I will look at the Newspaper Archive. As you say a sad little life. Not wanted by anyone.... although it seems therefore strange to announce her death. Perhaps they wondered if the elusive Caroline would see it. Patsy

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I have found the report , it names the person ... as you said he was found not guilty.

There is also a report of ALFRED HATCH making a miniature Hay Rick for the harvest festival 23 Sept 1899.

Patsy

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