Emma cindery/Lucy cindery

Both girls were born around 1840 in littledean, and went into service. Wondering where they went, can anyone help? Both children of Henry cindery and mary Ann mount joy.

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Hi Carol

I cannot help you much regarding Emma & Lucy Cinderey. Indeed although I do have Emma Cinderey in my Family Tree born 1842. I do not have Lucy. The children of Henry Cinderey & Mary Ann Mountjoy I do have are Jane 1837, Elizabeth 1838, Eleanor 1840, Mary 1841, Emma 1842, Amelia 1846, Joseph Mountjoy 1850, William 1853 & Charlotte 1857. I have Joseph Mountjoy Cinderey as married to Harriett Fisher 1852 - 6 children.

1841 Little Dean Hill
Henry Cindrey 28 Sawyer
Mary Ann 27
Elizabeth 5
Jane 3
Elanor 1

1851 Census East Dean
CINDRY Henry 38 Sawyer Walford
Mary 38 Extra Parochial
Elizabeth 14 East Dean
Jane 12 East Dean
Mary 10 East Dean
Emma 9 East Dean
Amelia 5 East Dean
Joseph 8m East Dean

1861 High St Cinderford
Henry Andry 46 Quarryman / Sawyer Walford [Cindry]
Mary Ann Andry 48 Littledean
Joseph Andry 10
William Andry 8
Charlotte Andry 4

1871 High Street Cinderford
Henry Cindrey abt 1816 Head East Dean
Wm Cindrey abt 1855 Son East Dean
Charlott Cindrey abt 1857 Daughter East Dean

1891 Church Road East Dean
Henry living with daughter Elizabeth and husband Isaac Simmonds.Henry d.1899

Henry had 2 spells in Gloucester prison 10 Oct 1842 for stealing an elm board and 10 June 1848 for stealing a sheep, sent down for 6mth hard labour.

Neither Henry Cinderey or Mary Ann Mountjoy or their children are related to me. The reason they are in my tree is that I have descendants of Henry's siblings who are related, primarily his brother George 1809 married Elizabeth Wilkes 1814 and their son George 1836 married my 2nd cousin 4 times removed Abia Marfell.George Cinderey & Elizabeth Wilkes son John 1854 married my 1st cousin 3 times removed Elizabeth Brain 1850, daughter of 3rd cousin 4 times removed Simeon Brain 1819 & Great Great Great Aunt Ann Marfell 1824. There are other connections from Henry Cinderey's parents Guy Cinderey 1784 & Susannah James 1789. I do have 92 Cinderey's in my Family Tree with various connections.

As you might detect my main interest is the Marfell family, but I follow siblings and parents of spouses.

I don't know if you have researched the Mountjoy Family, but Mary Ann MOuntjoy had a brother William 1803 who married Sophia Robinson 1796. They had 7 children including Sophia 1823 who married William Briscoe 1825. The story from here is very complicated but leads to a Great Aunt Bernice Lily Marfell 1890 who married Owen Robinson Briscoe 1889. I have his birth certificate surname Thomas and marriage certificate surname Briscoe. The story of illegitimacy and stange "goings on" are covered partly in this thread :

http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=33459#p33539

Good Luck with your researches.

Jim Ashton

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Hi Carol,
please can you help us to help you, by sharing your sources, and advising how you know about Emma and Lucy's early lives and their work in Service ?

I ask as despite thoroughly searching this site's PRs, FreeBMD and Ancestry, using various spellings including Scindrey etc etc, but I cannot find any mention of a Lucy whatsoever ?. My researches tonight are NOT helped by the GlosBMD website being out-of-service, a shame as this site copes well with spelling variations, so perhaps Lucy is out there, but how's her surname spelt and where is she ?

I can find various Baptism PRs for Henry and Mary Ann, including Emma's on this site, as I expect you have too:

Record_ID: 6609
Entry_Number: 67
Year: 1845
Month: Oct
Day: 19
Parents_Surname: SINDREY
Child_Forenames: Emma
Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Mothers_Forenames: Mary Ann
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Woodside
Occupation: Sawyer
Officiating_Minister: J G Smythies
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85 IN 1/1
Page_Number: 9
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: S536

Ancestry carries a complete-looking Public Family tree, which shows Henry and Mary Ann's household in Littledean Hill/Cinderford c1841 & 1851 etc (as per Jim's post) and their ten children, but NO mention of a Lucy. It includes some records of Henry's stealing, presumably to feed his large family.

Re the apparent absence of Lucy Cindry, it may be significant that (according to this tree) Emma's first child is named Lucy, born Littledean in 1870, according to the 1871 Census, I cannot find any other birth/baptism record. The tree does NOT show the 1861 Census for Emma (was she in service then ?), but shows her in 1871 in Worksop, Notts, married to William Little b1848 Clifton, Bristol, a coalminer. The next Census's show the household in the Barnsley area of Yorkshire; clearly moving with William's work as a miner. They live-out their lives there, Emma dies in 1893 aged just 51, William in 1915 aged 67. I cannot find their Marriage, I think it may have been a Registry office one as FreeBMD and this site's PRs appear to carry earlier Marriages for both of them in the FoD area, need to look on GlosBMD when it's available.

The various Census's on the Tree that I have seen appear correct, quoting Emma's Littledean birthplace, HOWEVER I must urge you to confirm this information by your own research. This tree may not be accurate.

Hope this helps a little, look forward to your thoughts please, Jeff

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Hi again,
I'm pleased to see GlosBMD is available today, so I can add the following records. This excellent site allows searching all FoD District Births registered with Mother's maiden-name Mountjoy, for example, giving 78 easily viewed/sorted results. This means I don't worry about guessing all the various Cindery spellings, as the results are easy to read-thro regardless of their spelling. Furthermore this site allows you to enter just the first letter of a name, eg a C for Cindrey etc, or an S for Schindary etc, so further narrowing-down the tabulated results to only give those starting C, or S.
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/BirthSearch.aspx

These results do not include any names that look or sound like Lucy;

All the relevant results are;

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry

SINDRY Jane SINDRY SINDRY MOUNTJOY 1837 Forest of Dean Forest of Dean, Gloucester 1 19
SINDRY Helen SINDRY SINDRY MOUNTJOY 1840 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 2 368
SINDREY Emma SINDREY SINDREY MOUNTJOY 1841 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 3 417
SINDREY Susan SINDREY SINDREY MOUNTJOY 1845 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 6 158
SINDREY Amelia SINDREY SINDREY MOUNTJOY 1846 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 7 165
SINDREY Joseph Mountjoy SINDREY SINDREY MOUNTJOY 1850 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 10 329
SINDREY Henry SINDREY SINDREY MOUNTJOY 1853 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 13 243
CINDERRY Charlotte CINDERRY CINDERRY MOUNTJOY 1857 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, Newnham 17 309

I cannot find any record for the Birth of Emma's daughter Lucy Little, born in Littledean wrt the 1871 Census as per previous post, or any other Births to Little/Cindry(etc), which does indicate the couple may have moved away from the area as the aforementioned Ancestry Tree suggests, perhaps as they'd fallen-out with Emma's parents when the baby arrived ?.
Searching GlosBMD but this time using the Advanced Marriage search I cannot find any Marriage for Emma to William Little, ref my post above.
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/MarriageSearch.aspx

I've tried again to find Emma on the 1861 Census, but again no luck. Ditto Lucy anywhere/anytime.
I have however seen another different Emma Cindry of similar age, born in the Forest nr Newent, by coincidence her mother was Lucy and she has a sister Mary Ann, so beware of getting them confused !!

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Thanks the information tallies with the information I had already, am currently using bmds to confirm the information I have found on ancestry, the marriage to George lane could be her, if so it ended soon after it started, but could be looking for an emma lane marrying William little if that is correct.

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Hi Carol,
Thanks for your reply, it's helped me rather-belated realise you've already covered this on another thread, oops !.
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45381

Normally I would (and should!) have searched the forum for such a post, I guess the reason I didn't was because it has been a few weeks since the last (Jim's) reply - I thought it odd others hadnt helped-out(apparently, not true of course) - plus it was a little late for clear thinking, poor excuses I know but the best I can muster ;-)

Well at least I've "independently" confirmed what you already knew, which is good I guess.
Genuinely sorry I couldn't have helped-out further, hopefully I can do better on your next query if you have any. Please, as and when you do post, if it's about the same family please consider adding new queries onto your existing threads, or including a mention and even link like mine above, thanks. This helps with consistency of discussion/thought for others, especially those as dim as me (are there any others that dim!?).
Also in future this will help out other, later, researchers who discover these threads in years to come.

I look forward to being more helpful in future,
many thanks, Jeff.

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Since I posted here regarding emma cindrey last year, I have discovered that she married George lane, in 1861,and had at least 3, possibly 4 children with him, I have the wedding certificate, and birth certificates to prove it. In 1870 she gave birth to a Lucy, who it appears she took with her when she left the forest and moved to Worksop with William little. She went on to have several children with William including my great grandmother, emma, and several others, including a Lucy born in 1874. The 1870 Lucy I presume died young, as she doesn't appear on the census in barnsley at monk bretton in 1891.
On her death certificate she gives her name. As little implying they married, but I have tried everywhere, and can't find a record of her marriage to William little at all. Birth certificates of her children with William give her maiden name as cindrey still, not lane, so she either divorced George lane and refused to use his name, or somewhere there are 2 emma cindreys born in the forest, with a father called Henry, a sawyer!
I haven't seen any evidence of emma cindrey in any other families around that time.
I recently found a census for 1861 with George lane as a Cowman, and an Emily s cindry as milkmaid, and think that may have been where emma and George lane met, as Emily could be an error in writing the name down - it seems to be too much of a coincidence!

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