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There is a record of William Toomey/Tommey born in Westbury who served in the First Foot Regiment and was discharged aged 42.
The references are WO 97/239/63 and WO 97/1-1271. I am unable to delve any further in to these records and am hoping a forum user may be able to provide more information for me.
Any help would be wonderful
Thanks in advance

Sid Toomey

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I did a quick search in Parish Records 1770 - 1830ish with no result. Do you have some dates please? I assume you meant Westbury on Severn. There's a Westbury in Wiltshire.

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Thank you for your reply Rogerr.
The index for the service record I am trying to get details of show that he was born in Westbury Gloucestershire and I think his service was from 1831-1853. The records are held by The National Archives with a heading "Royal Chelsea Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents 1760-1854.
It is probably a long shot , but I want to see if he is the William Tumey who was baptised on 18th October 1810 at Churchdown and who appears to have disappeared from all records after that date.
His Parents were William Toomey (my 3rd G/Grandfather) and Elizabeth Burnett.

Sid Toomey

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Hello Sid,

Can't find anything. Churchdown does not appear in the search list of parishes here. There will be people along who see your Thread and have other resources.

Roger

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Thanks for your efforts Rogerr.
I will keep digging
Sid Toomey

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The search result Sid found on the national archives is this
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8709584
The record should be available to read and download on findmypast. However I could not find it. It does not come up under Toomey or Tommey. It appears to have been mis-trancribed; as what is anybody's guess. I tried Yoomey. The fmp search engine will not respond to the NA ref. number alone. Any other suggestions?

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This is the transcription:
First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name GOOMEY
Birth year 1810
Birth parish WESTBURY
Birth town GLOCESTER
Birth county GLOUCESTERSHIRE
Birth country ENGLAND
Service number 478
Rank SERJEANT
Regiment -
Document Type Discharge
Attestation year 1831
Attestation Day 10
Attestation Month 12
Attestation age years 21
Attestation age months -
Discharge Corps 1ST THE ROYAL REGT FO FOOT 2ND BATTALION
Discharge service number 478
Series WO97 chelsea pensioners british army service records 1760-1913
Box 239
Box Record Number 63
Record set British Army Service Records 1760-1915
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

Mike

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Thank you for your replies Mike and Harry.
The birth date of 1810 is the same as my William. Where did you find the transcription ?
I must get a copy of his service record to see if it gives any more information so I can confirm he was the first son of William Toomey of Churcham whose birth records are just as elusive.

Sid Toomey

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The transcript is from Findmypast.
The document runs to about 10 pages and is a record of his service but does not appear to give date of birth or name of his parents.

Mike

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Mike
Thank you very much for the service record. Year of birth matches my William.
Service record states he was born in or near Gloucester. Churchdown i believe is close to Gloucester.
I searched Ancestry to see if there were any other William Toomey's (including other spellings of the surname) born in vicinity in the same year. You wouldn't believe it but there was another William born in The Leith Parish a month different with the same parent names !!
I must look further in to it.

Sid Toomey

4638 views

Hello Sid,

The documents associated with the discharge are also available on Genes Reunited. As already stated in a previous reply they do not give any clues to his parentage but they do show a few things of interest:-

The 1853 discharge papers refer to him as TOOMEY but his 1831 attestation papers (also included) refer to him as TOMMEY, which is how he signs.

He was attested in 1831 and rose to be a Sergeant in 1835. In 1836 he was court martialled for drunkenness, imprisoned for four days, and reduced to the rank of Private. However, by 1839 he was promoted to Sergeant again.

He served extensive periods abroad in Canada, Nova Scotia and the West Indies.

The reason for discharge was, “ rendered unfit by general debility produced by length of service, not caused by constitutional predisposition or aggravated by vice or intemperance”. He was “unfit for service in consequence of general debility and worn out.” His overall conduct was described as “very good”.

The discharge seems to have taken place in Dublin, Ireland. The papers were signed by the Principal Medical Officer at Dublin (21 Nov. 1853) and the Office of the Adjutant General, Dublin. The place of discharge is difficult to interpret but could be an older spelling of Bray, just south of Dublin. He also expressed the intention to dwell in the same place after discharge. Perhaps this is why he vanishes since the records of the Irish censuses after this date are fragmentary or non-existent.

If the two are to be identified as the same I suppose the main question is why he should give his birth parish as Westbury if he was born in Churchdown?

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Hi Mike
Thank you for the extra information. I read the documents and noticed that his place of birth was also given as "In or near Gloucester".
During research in to my Ancestors, I have seen the name "Toomey" spelt every way imaginable. I don't know whether the soldier William Toomey is the same as mine who was born in Churchdown and seems to have dropped out of circulation. He was the only progeny of William Toomey and his wife Elizabeth (Burnett) who was not born in Churcham.
Thanks again for your interest.
Sid Toomey

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I wonder:-

BNA Southern Reporter and Cork Commercial Courier - Monday 19 February 1866

HIBERNIAN HOTEL, 108, OLD GEORGE’S STREET. (Corner of Winthrop Street Cork). WILLIAM TOOMEY, Proprietor (late House Steward of the Royal Cork Yacht Club, Queenstown, and formerly for many years Officers’ Mess Sergeant 2nd Battalion 1st Royal Regiment) begs to inform his numerous Friends and the Public that the above Establishment has undergone extensive alterations and improvements, which have rendered it replete with every comfort, and is now under his own immediate management. Visitors may rely on the utmost attention and cleanliness, with moderate charges. This old established Hotel is very desirably situated for the accommodation of commercial gentlemen, private families, and tourists, being in the most central part of the city. Beds, with attendance, 2s. per night. A Night Porter is in attendance. The Proprietor also begs to announce that he has opened to the public a Refreshment room facing Old George’s-street, front entrance, for Soups, Oysters, and Dinners (Daily) from Hot Joints, with Vegetables from 2 to 5 p.m. Suppers also if required, all at moderate charges. W. T. begs to assure the Public that all his Wines, Spirits, Ales, &c., will be of the very choicest description as he is determined to keep the best only. Attendance charges in the bills at very moderate rates. N.B.—Observe Hibernian Hotel.

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Mike
Once again I am astonished at the information which a more skilled forum user has been able to unearth.
Thank you again

Sid Toomey

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It would appear that William was initiated into a Freemasons Lodge in 1837. Some detail from Ancestry:
Name: William Tommey
Gender: Male
Initiation Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1813
Initiation Date: 13 Jan 1837
First Payment Year on Register: 1837
Year Range: 1837-1862
Profession: Corporal
Lodge: Lodge of Unity Peace and Concord
Lodge Location: 1st Royal Regt
Lodge Number: 396
Folio Number: 115

Information on this Lodge can be found here:
http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/lane/record.php?ID=1533

This was a Regimental Lodge that met wherever they were stationed and the Register tells us that William was in Montreal at the time. His rank on that date is the same as in his Service Record.

The United Grand Lodge of England can be contacted online at:
http://www.ugle.org.uk/contact-us/genealogical-enquiries

Mike

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After looking at the Masonic information perhaps the discharge hearing was in Birr rather than near Dublin. There was a nearby barracks (Crinkill) and one of the 1853 meetings was held in Birr.

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There is a searchable database on the Soldiers of Gloucestershire website:
http://www.glosters.org.uk/soldiersearch/

A search of the 19th Century database produces 6 entries with the surname TOOMEY all born in Ireland. Apart from forenames and place of birth there is no other information available but may be worth following up.

Mike

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From the BNA Southern Reporter and Cork Commercial Courier - Monday 11 June 1860 an indication that the soldier William Toomey seems to have married at some stage,

DIED

On the 8th inst., Mrs Elizabeth Toomey, wife of Mr Wm. Toomey, late mess man, North Cork Rifles, now Steward of the Royal Cork Yacht Club, Queenstown, deeply regretted by a numerous family and circle of friends.

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Thank you to all for the information provided on William Toomey and his possible life after discharge from the Army. This information now raises more questions for me.
According to his discharge papers, he was discharged in Birr and expressed a desire to live in the area.
I agree with the information on his Lodge membership. Dates and rank match .
If he is the William Toomey who was a later steward at Royal Cork Yacht Club and then at Hibernian Hotel he would have had to have moved from Birr, which seems like a distance but if one has served in Canada, The West Indies and joined the Army in Gloucester it probably wouldn't seem far.
The report of his wife death in 1860 confuses me as it said he was a member of the Royal Cork Rifles ? It also matches the Hibernian Hotel report re his earlier mess service in the Second Battalion of 1st Regiment of Foot.
Now I need to try to link him to the William Toomey (Tummy) born in Churchdown.
With all of the Geographic and Historical information i am absorbing during my Family research, I think I would make an awesome quiz show competitor. Problem is, my memory is like a sieve.

Sid Toomey

4571 views

Continuing with my search in to this soldiers life, I have found that he finished his career with the 2nd Battalion, 1st (Royal) Regiment of Foot as Officers Mess Sergeant.

Would any Forum user have any knowledge of the structure of a Foot Regiment in the mid 19th Century ?
In particular, would the Officers Mess have been attached to the Battalion Headquarters and therefor the Mess Sergeant also ?

I know that the Headquarters and three of the service Companies were on board ship in the St Laurence Seaway enroute from Canada to the West Indies when they were shipwrecked, luckily without loss of life. Sergeant William Toomey/Tommey was on board .
Although most of this research is outside The Forest of Dean, his younger brother James Toomey, Baptised in Churcham in 1824, also enlisted in the Army and served in the same Battalion , ending his long career as Colour Sergeant with the 2nd Battalion, 12th Regiment of Foot.

Thank you in advance

Sid Toomey

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Continuing with my search in to Williams life, he wrote his Will in 1859 and appointed the following person as one of his trustees.
Taken from the Will document in 1859.
Charles Morgan
Inn Keeper of Regent Street Barton St. Mary, Gloucester.
From the 1861 Census the following.
Charles Morgan living at Regent Street.
aged 33
Born Woodthorpe Herefordshire
Wife Anne Morgan
Aged 35
Born Deerhurst Gloucestershire
Know that he died before 28th July 1883.

Does any forum member know anything more about both of the above and whether there is any way of tracing him as an Innkeeper ?

Thanks in advance

Sid Toomey

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Tracing backwards....

This is the 1851 Census, Gloucestershire, Tewkesbury

Church Street

Charles MORGAN - Lodger, Married, 23, Carpenter - born Herefordshire, Woolthorpe
Ann MORGAN - Wife - Married, 25 - born Gloucestershire, Deerhurst

Lodging with

Henry WHITE, aged 44 - Innkeeper born Chipping Sodbury
Eliza - wife - 34 - born Tewkesbury
William H WHITE - son - 7 - Scholar, born Tewkesbury
+ a Governess and two servants.

GENUKI - Herefordshire, Parish (no Woolthorpe listed)

?

WOOLHOPE, a parish in the hundred of GREYTREE, county of HEREFORD, 7 miles (W by S) from Ledbury, containing with the townships of Buckenhill and Putley. 825 inhabitants.

The living is a discharged vicarage, annexed to that of FOWNHOPE, etc etc.

(There is a Charles MORGAN on the 1841 census of FOWNHOPE - living with his Mother and siblings)

MORGAN

Eliza - 30 - all born in County
Ann - 17
Charles - 13
Elizabeth - 8
Edward - 5
Eliza - 9 months **

? GRO INDEX

MORGAN, Eliza - mother's maiden name: JINKINS

1840 S Quarter, HEREFORD AND DORE

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On the Closed Pubs site the only one listed in Regent Street is the Raglan Arms-

https://www.closedpubs.co.uk/gloucestershire/gloucester.html

Then there is this reference to Annie from 1870-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/d13c0129-fa91-47f1-8aca-b762c7988dd8

From Glos BMD and Genes Reunited

Charles MORGAN aged 42 died
Gloucester South Hamlet
Q3 1869

Annie MORGAN married
John BYRNS
Gloucester St James
Q2 1870

Annie is then easily tracked in Census as Annie BYRNS. She is still at the Raglan Arms in1871 and 1881 with her new husband. By 1891 she is widowed again (Glos BMD - John BYRNS died in 1890 Gloucester South Hamlet aged 68), retired as a publican but still living in Regent Street. Likewise in 1901.

Annie BYRNS aged 78 died
Tewkesbury
Q3 1904

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Thanks to you both. This information gives me leads to follow up.

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This information for the sake of completeness,

BNA Gloucestershire Chronicle – Saturday 14 August 1869
DEATHS
Aug 8, at the Raglan Arms Inn, Regent Street, after many months’ illness, Mr Charles Morgan, aged 42.

BNA Gloucestershire Chronicle - Saturday 16 July 1904
DEATHS
BYRNS – July 12th, at Apperley, Deerhurst, Mrs Annie Byrns, of North Villa, Regent Street, Gloucester, aged 78 years.
(Deerhurst was then in Tewkesbury Registration District)

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This message is to provide an update (for the benefit of any future researchers) to my four year search for evidence to prove the William and James Toomey mentioned were actually brothers ,despite William Toomey giving his home Parish as 'Westbury' when joining the Army and not 'Churchdown' where he was baptised.
With invaluable help from other Forum users, both of their lives have been tracked through to the end with new Ancestors discovered who do not appear on any of the public family trees on sites like Ancestry etc.
As well as other coincidences tying the brothers families together, Williams will provided another link which more than convinced me.
In 1859 William and his family were living in Victoria Street Barton StMary,Gloucester when he wrote his will. One of his Trustees was George Hayes, Bricklayer also of Victoria Street. George Hayes was the husband of Charlotte Toomey, baptised in Churcham on 12th April 1818. Charlotte was Williams younger sister. Shortly before Williams death in Shaw Lancashire in 1883, George Hayes handled enquiries to rent one of the two Providence Villas in Falkner Street mentioned in Williams will and shortly after his death, sister Charlotte Hayes handled enquiries regarding the sale of both Villas.

During the search, quite a bit of information about their movements has been accumulated, including both humorous and sad events.
Rather than waste it by keeping the details to myself, i have been putting it in to writing (amateurishly i admit). Soon to be finished, i will be quite willing to share the result with extended Toomey descendants as well as anyone interested.

Sid Toomey

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