Joseph John Brown 1856 Newnham

I am looking for Joseph John Brown, born 1856 in Newnham. The only record that I can find with Joseph recorded in, is the 1861 census, living with his family. According to family information, he died in 1887 and is buried at Westbury on Severn, but there is no record of this and no records of him in the 1871 and 1881 censuses, before his supposed death in 1885? Can anyone help me please to either confirm his death in 1885 and burial at Westbury on Severn, and also find him in the 1871 and 1881 censuses.

Thanks David

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FreeBMD gives a death record in Westbury on Severn District in the Sep quarter 1887 Vol-6a, Page-141, Age-60.

From FoDFHT Parish Register Entries and corresponding with the above:

Record_ID:
33896
Entry_Number:
779
Year:
1887
Month:
Jul
Day:
6
Surname:
BROWN
Forenames:
Joseph
Residence:
Newnham
Age_at_death:
60
Officiating_Minister:
T J Weight
Event:
Burial
Cause_of_death:

Memoranda:

Notes:

Register_Reference:
P 228 IN 1/19
Page_No:
98
Parish_Chapel:
Newnham
Soundex:
B650

I do not think this is your Joseph Brown.

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Thanks Paul, but this is not Joseph John Brown born 1856.
If it was correct, then the the age at death for Joseph John Brown would have been 29 years of age.

Best wishes David

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Joseph John Brown aged 5 in the 1861 England Census is shown as the child of Joseph and Sarah Brown. He was baptised as below:

Record_ID:
47777
Entry_Number:
666
Year:
1855
Month:
Dec
Day:
16
Parents_Surname:
BROWN
Child_Forenames:
Joseph John
Fathers_Forenames:
Joseph
Mothers_Forenames:
Sarah
Mothers_Surname:

Residence:
Newnham
Occupation:
Labourer
Officiating_Minister:
E C Brice
Event:
Baptism
Memoranda:

Notes:

Register_Reference:
P228 IN 1/9
Page_Number:
84
Parish_Chapel:
Newnham
Soundex:
B650

Although he was born in 1855 his birth was not registered until the first quarter of 1856 in Westbury on Severn District. Source: FreeBMD. Vol-6a, Page-183.

I have searched the FoDFHT Parish Registers for a burial of Joseph John Brown, Joseph Brown and John Brown from 1861 upto 1901 and can not see any which corresponds with Joseph John Brown's date of birth.

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Gloucestershire County Council hold a record for Joseph Brown born about 1854 who was committed to goal on 16 October 1865. His age was given as 11. This could be your Joseph John Brown. The reference is Q/Gc6/5. You will need to contact Gloucestershire County Council to obtain a copy of this document and there is a charge for this service.

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? Assume this is the Joseph mentioned in previous reply....

Ancestry as a number of Joseph BROWN's including this one

Conviction or Committal Date: 5 March 1866

Joseph BROWN aged 12 Birth year, abt 1854

Goal or Prison Place: Gloucester

Known to Police for 6 months
Stealing a pair of trousers
6 days and once whipped (term of imprisonment)
4'5" tall
Light brown hair, dark eyes
grey fresh complexion
mole on right eyebrow, large scar on left side of forehead

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Hello Paul,

This is interesting and a possibility, as it answer's the question of how he can be missing from the 1871 and 1881 censuses.
Thanks I think that this is well worth checking with Gloucester C C

Best wishes David

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Here is the link to the Genealogical Database from the Glos Archives site, from which the above-mentioned records can be ordered.
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives/genealogical-database/

Please note that Joseph Brown is not a rare name, as the records show.
They appear to link this particular man with Birmingham and then Manchester, Lancashire, rather than Gloucestershire ?.
Some if not all of the Wills noted on this database are available from Ancestry site, so maybe the same is true for Gaol records etc, as per MPG's post ?
Search the Genealogical database here
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

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I would like to thank all of the people who contributed to this link and helped me with trying to find Joseph John Brown, your help was much appreciated.
I still have the problem, that he is missing in the 1871 and 1881 censuses. One option that i am considering, is that he joined the army and was out of the country on active duty. This with the other suggestion, of being in prison will keep me going through the winter months. So thanks again to everyone for their help me.

David

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Joseph & Sarah BROWN's Son, Joseph John BROWN was christened in 1856, but on the 28 January 1866, Joseph & Sarah BROWN had another Son, christened, Henry Joseph BROWN 28 January 1866

? Not sure how often two Sons, where given their father's first name? or did Joseph c 1856 die, and the name Joseph carried on with the second Son.

On the Forest of Dean records, Henry Joseph BROWN is buried 12 May 1867 at Newnham aged 19[/b]

On Ancestry the Parish Register entry 12 May 1867 - reads Henry was 1 yr

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Joseph Brown and Sarah had eleven children.

Rosamond Elizabeth 1852
Mary Jane 1954
Joseph John 1855
William James 1857
Sarah Ann 1859
Lucy Beatrice 1860
Charles Henry 1862
Fanny Louisa 1864
Henry Joseph 1865
Alice Caroline 1867
Sidney Oscars 1871

All were born in Newnham on Severn.

David

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Possible burial:
Year 1885
Month Jul
Day 2
Surname BROWN
Forenames John
Residence Newnham
Age at death 30
Officiating Minister T J Weight
Event Burial
Cause of death
Memoranda
Notes
Register Reference P 228 IN 1/19
Page No 92
Parish Chapel Newnham

Death Registration
Deaths Sep 1885
Brown John 30 Westbury S. 6a 141

Mike

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Hi David,
please can you confirm his parents' names, perhaps from the 1861 Census ?

The only census access I have is Familysearch, which gives this incomplete household for 1861 ?. I presume the rest of the household were on another page and maybe haven't been transcribed correctly;

1861 Bell Hill, Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Rosamine Elizh Brown Daughter F 5 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Mary Jane Brown Daughter F 7 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Joseph John Brown Son M 5 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Willm James Brown Son M 4 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Sarah Ann Brown Daughter F 2 Newnham, Gloucestershire
Lucy Bahia Brown Daughter F 0 Newnham, Gloucestershire

I also find these which may be relevant, John "junior" was born Newnham c1856;

1871 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brown Head M 49 Labourer. Newnham, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Brown Wife F 28 Awre, Gloucestershire
John Brown Son M 15 Newnham, Gloucestershire

1881 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brown Head M 60 Labourer General. Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Brown Wife F 39 Awre, Gloucestershire, England
John Brown Son M 25 Tanner. Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Selina Brown Daughter F 9 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Joseph T Brown Son M 6 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England
Rosenia Brown Daughter F 3 Newnham, Gloucestershire, England

----------

Can't help wondering whether this record from across the Severn is somehow relevant ?

John Brown
England Births and Christenings
Name John Brown
Gender Male
Christening Date 02 May 1855
Christening Date (Original) 02 MAY 1855
Christening Place BERKELEY,GLOUCESTER,ENGLAND
Father's Name Joseph Brown
Mother's Name Emily

That said, FamilySearch shows a few John/Joseph Browns were born in the Severnside area c1856

??
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%2...

================

UPDATE !

oops, apologies to Paul Andrews, despite reading the thread thro' a coupole of time before I posted, for some reason I didn't see your posting of the parents' names Joseph and Sarah. Sorry, off for a lie-down now.. ;-)

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Joseph John Brown 1856 Newnham (General)