During my family research I find that I am related to Noah Cutter born 1970 in St Briavels, his parents being THOMAS and JANE. I have found a marriage to ANNE GOUGH of Staunton in 1816. I know he went on to have a relationship with SARAH who called herself CUTTER but I can find no death certificate for ANNE nor a marriage certificate for SARAH. I know that he moved to Monmouth at some stage and he and Sarah went on to have 3 children, Elmira James and Selina.

THOMAS CUTTER 1751 - 1831 is apparently buried in St Briavels which I intend to look for on my next visit

Any help would be greatly appreciated

In the BNA Gloucester Journal, Monday 24 June 1793, as part of an auction,

And a Cottage or Tenement, situate in the Lower Mead (modern Lower Meend on Streetmap?), near St. Briavels aforesaid, now or late in the occupation of Thomas Cutter.

According to the image on Ancestry the marriage of Noah CUTTER and Anne GOUGH took place at Staunton on 3rd November 1817 – witnesses Thomas HOWELL and Anne HOWELL.

Selina CUTLER (Selina CURTTLER - on transcript records) - was baptised 18 November 1827 at Monmouth -

Noah was buried 24 September 1826

There is a tree on Ancestry - for Celina CUTTER - who married Joseph William HUDSON - Sept 1843 at Bristol - aged 21 = c1822

and on the
1851 census - her age is 29 = c 1822 etc - various children including Noah 1849 in Penalt. On the 1891 census, Celina was aged 70 = c1821 and born Monmouth.

So Noah was with Sarah 1821/1822

Been trying to find her on the 1841 census -

Thank you for your post. I do actually have that info - what I can't find is a death for Anne and a marriage to Sarah. I have visited St Marys in Monmouth and seen entries for the births and have a record of his death at an early age!
We hope to find the burial plot of his father Thomas when we visit St Briavels very soon. Very intersting about the property. I don't know the area at all having been brought up in Bristol but will have agood look around
Do you know if the parish records are held in the church?
Thanks again

Hi thank you for replying to my post. I did actually have most of that info except that Selina had moved to Bristol which is where I am from and I know that her sister Elmira moved there with her husband John Davis - which is our family name.
I have been to St Marys in Monmouth and seen the birth entries for Elmira, Selina and James in the parish registers held there.
We will be going to St Briavels soon to locate the grave or burial area of Noah's father Thomas
What I don't have is death details for Anne Gough nor a marriage cert for Sarah. I do know that when Noah died in 1826 Sarah moved to Penallt to marry a James Robbins and Elmira was with her. Elmira appears on the 1841 census but no Sarah for some reason. Sarah died in Penallt and is buried there.
I'll go to the library to look up the Celina Cutter details on Ancestry as I no longer subscribe.
Do you know if the parish records are held in the church at St Briavels?
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply

GR 1841 Census, Jacob Wells, Clifton, Bristol

Amelia BUMFORD, 33, born in county
Harriet, 12, not born in county
Thomas, 8, not born in county
Joseph, 6, not born in county
Alfred Joseph, 2, not born in county
George Albert, 3w, born in county
Selina CUTLER, 20, ??? ??? Maker, born in county

That is a great find for Selina - I wonder if it is her as my records show she was baptised in Nov 1827
(Noah died in sept 1826 but the parish records show Noah as her father). I might have to double check that!
I can see the Bristol connection emerging!
Thanks again

Selina CUTLER aged 20 on the 1841 census is a

Straw Bonnet Maker -

Noah was a Hoop Shaver

? are these occupations 'Travellers'

On the 1851 census, Amelia BUMFORD (born Monmouthshire) - is living with her husband Thomas (a Plasterer)

and has various children, including a Selina aged 7 (GRO - Selina Emma 1843 - mother's maiden name EVANS)

Amelia EVANS married Thomas BUMFORD, Abergavenny St Mary's 3 August 1828

with consent of friends: witnesses: Eugene BOLTON and Mary Anne BENNETT

Amelia EVANS, christened at Monmouth St Mary's 19 June 1808

Mother: SARAH

? is Selina CUTLER, Amelia's half-sister

From familysearch.org:

Bristol Parish Registers, 1538-1900
Name: Joseph Williams Hudson
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Jul 1843
Event Place: Bristol, St Augustine the Less, Gloucestershire, England
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Thomas Hudson
Spouse's Name: Celina Cutter
Spouse's Residence Place: Bristol, St Augustine the Less, Gloucestershire
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father's Name: Noah Cutter

Bristol Parish Registers, 1538-1900
Name: James Albert Cutter
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Aug 1846
Event Place: Bristol, St George Brandon Hill, Gloucestershire, England
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Noah Cutter
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Walters
Spouse's Residence Place: Bristol, St George Brandon Hill, Gloucestershire
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Father's Name: John Walters

Mike

Parish Records are held at Gloucestershire Archives.
Images are available on Ancestry.

Mike

Up until 1839 - Thomas & Amelia BUMFORD - had their children christened at Monmouth (Forest of Dean records)

1833 - Thomas
1837 - Erwin
1839 - Alfred Joseph

A transcript of Sarah's marriage is on Family Search:

Sarah Cutter
Wales, Monmouthshire, Parish Registers
Name James Robbins
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 13 May 1833
Event Place Bishton, Monmouthshire, Wales
Spouse's Name Sarah Cutter

Image of the entry in Penalt Registers is available on Find My Past and Sarah is described as a Widow.
Have you considered the possibility that Ann and Sarah are one and the same?

Mike

Thomas BUMFORD and Amelia EVANS

There is a Family tree on Ancestry - and on Forest of Dean records - this couple had children baptised in Monmouth up to 1839

Thank you - so now it appears that all of Noah’s 3 children moved to Bristol which is where I was born. I have been following the line from Sarah and have her details and death after her marriage to John Robbins. I have also the details of John Davis who married Elmira and then down the line to my father.
When we last went to St Briavels both my husband and I thought the church warden said the parish records are held there from 1600 onwards but at the time we couldn’t look at them as it was too late for us. I’m waiting for a call back from the secretary to confirm this.
In the mean time I’ll try to work out how to find the info I want from Gloucestershire Archives.
You have been so really helpful and I’m so grateful!

MonGenes

http://www.mongenes.org.uk

Burial at

Llanfihangel Llantarnam

29 April 1809

Jas CUTTER

residence: St Brevails, Gloucestershire

Thank you so much for all your help. I’m off to the library today to continue my hunt.
I do have a tree on Ancestry but came to a halt over Anne and Sarah. You have provided a lot of info and clues. I need to find out more about Anne’s birth/death first in Staunton archives and then maybe Monmouth as they could have moved there after they married.
Thanks again
Fabulous info you’ve shared
Chris (McKelvie).

Just one thing - I’m denied access to the parish records and marriage allegations on here. Can you tell me why? Thanks

If you are being presented with the Access Denied screen this suggests you are not taking the correct route. Try the following:
If you are logged in then log out
Clear your Browser History and remove any bookmarks for this site. Close down browser.
Reopen browser and go to www.forest-of-dean.net
Click on Forum and then Login.
Complete login process and you should be able to access the various databases.

If problem persists then raise a ticket:
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/help-faq/help-support-contact-form

Mike

This link will take you to a webpage which provides details of St Briavels records held at Gloucestershire Archives: https://bit.ly/2LJ7cjW

The Diocese ruled some time ago that all registers when complete are to be deposited at the Archives and the only registers held in parishes are current ones.

The registers for Gloucestershire Parishes have been filmed by Ancestry and are on their website which you can access if you have a subscription or when a free period is offered of which notice is usually given on this website.

A record of transcribed registers is available on this website. Go to the Main Menu - Resources - Parish Records. You will see a paragraph headed Progress Overview and below this is a link to a transcribed registers database.

Mike

Mike you are a star! Thank you so much for this valuable info. I’ve just been trying to fathom out how to access the info on the website and you have saved me from the battle! I’m fired up again and ready to go do so I’ll order the records at Gloucester soon and make a day of it and look at Thomas’s burial place.
This site is amazing and everyone has been so helpful.
Thanks again
Chris

" ? is Selina CUTLER, Amelia's half-sister "

A good question!

We now endeavour to establish that Ann Gough and Sarah Gough are one and the same and that when she married Noah Cutter she was a Widow and her maiden name is EVANS.

We have this marriage:
Year: 1812
Month: Feb
Day: 4
Grooms_Surname: GOUGH
Grooms_Forenames: William
Grooms_Age:
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation:
Grooms_Residence: of this parish
Grooms_Fathers_Surname:
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames:
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation:
Brides_Surname: EVANS
Brides_Forenames: Sarah
Brides_Age:
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation:
Brides_Residence: of this parish
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both mark
Witness_1: Margaret Evans
Witness_2: Philip Richards
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

and this baptism:
Year: 1815
Month: Apr
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: GOUGH
Child_Forenames: Harriet
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: of this parish
Occupation: labourer
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

followed by this burial:
Year: 1814
Month: Dec
Day: 7
Surname: GOUGH
Forenames: William
Residence: Monmouth
Age_at_death: 36
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth

On 29 January 1841 Harriet GOUGH married George LANE by Licence at Monmouth. Harriet's father is given as William.

In the 1841 Census at Jacob's Well is the following household:
Given Name Surname Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country
James Albert Cutler 18 1823 Male Gloucestershire England
George Lane 24 1817 Male Gloucestershire England
Harriet Lane 24 1817 Female Gloucestershire England
Sarah Robbins 55 1786 Female Gloucestershire England
John Morgan 20 1821 Male Gloucestershire England

It has already been established that Selina was also resident in Jacob's Well and the above household suggests we have Sarah together with 2 children by different fathers, James and Harriet. It should also be noted that Selina Cutler is the last entry on a page of the Census and James Albert the first entry on the following page so they were in the same house or neighbours.

There is a record of a death for Sarah in 1846:
Name: Age at Death (in years):
ROBBINS, SARAH 60 Order
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in THE CLIFTON UNION Volume 11 Page 216

Age at date of death suggests a date of birth around 1785. We have this possible baptism:

Year: 1782
Month: Mar
Day: 24
Parents_Surname: EVANS
Child_Forenames: Sarah
Fathers_Forenames: Thos
Mothers_Forenames: Anne
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newland
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: BTs
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Penallt Monmouth

Witnesses at the marriage of Noah Cutter to Anne Gough were Thomas Howell and Anne Howell. On 10 November 1796 Thomas Howell married Ann EVANS at Monmouth. Could Ann Howell be Sarah's mother? There are a number of burials for Thomas Evans but not possible to establish from the records available to us if anyone of them is the father of Sarah.

As far as I am aware the only entry which states Noah married ANNE is the marriage entry in Staunton Registers. Both Noah and Ann signed with a Mark suggesting they could not read or write and perhaps giving the name as Anne is a clerical error.

Mike

Gosh that’s a lot to take in. What you have done for sure is find out where Sarah Robbins was on 1841 census night - with her son James Cutter in Bristol. So to explain how I got to where I was. Following my dads line, I found Phillip Davis my great grandfather and from there his father John Davis who married Elmira Cutter in Monmouth. I couldn’t find anything for Elmira from when her father died and contacted Gwent archives who were really helpful. They found Elmira (mirah on the 1841 census) living with James Robbins and his family in Penallt not her mother Sarah. Noah died in 1826 when Elmira was a few months old. I then found a marriage cert for Sarah and James Robbins in 1833. Her status was widowed. I have a death entry for her in 1863 in Penallt so assume it’s her.

Unfortunately our library closed at 4.30 so I need to go back next week. Funnily enough we used to live in Malvern and have friends in nearby Staunton where Anne Gough was born, I agree it looks like maybe she’d been widowed before she marries Noah. At the time it was unusual for people to get to an old age - saying that if correct it looks like Thomas cutter lived to 100!
Ok thanks again and onwards and upwards,
I’m indebted to you for all the help

A couple of points from your posting.

1/ I could not find Sarah Robbins in the 1851 or 1861 Census hence the possible death in 1846. This is the burial:

Name: Sarah Robbins
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 1785
Burial Date: 29 Nov 1846
Burial Place: Bristol, St George, Gloucestershire, England
Burial Age: 61

2/ There is a Staunton near the border of Gloucestershire and Worcestershire and a Staunton in the Forest of Dean between Coleford and Monmouth. The marriage of Noah Cutter to Anne Gough took place in the latter.

Mike

Thanks Mike I didn’t know that about Staunton. Make sense

I’ll take another look at James Robbins family to see if there’s another Sarah. I havent got access to the census data until Monday so cant check if she is on subsequent census with James. It could well be that she left him not long after her marriage to go to Bristol which is why Elmira followed on too.

I have been in touch with someone who is digitalising the Penallt parish records to find out any details from her.

Good call

Thanks again
Chris

Is this a mention of Harriet BUMFORD?

Bristol Times and Mirror - Saturday 04 August 1849

Bristol police court. MONDAY.

Harriet Bumford was charged with stealing clothes, the property of her father, Thomas Bumford. This day fortnight the prisoner, during her mother’s temporary absence from home, stole £2 worth of bed and other clothing, and pledged it all with various pawnbrokers. She committed a similar offence some time ago, when her father forgave her, and continued to maintain her, although she was nearly 19 years old; but, he said, she had always behaved ungratefully for kindness. The prisoner was remanded for the production of further evidence.

And might this be Thomas the younger?

Western Daily Press - Saturday 10 July 1869

The Suicide in St. PAUL's.-

Yesterday an inquest was held on the body of Thomas Bumford, aged 38, who had hanged himself on the previous evening. The evidence showed that some months ago the deceased, who was a plasterer, and also kept the Saracens Head beer house, Water Street, St Pauls, was seized with fits which had continued at intervals up to the time of his death. About a fortnight since his wife told him of some debts that were owing, including a quarter’s rent. This had the effect of depressing him, and on Thursday night, between eight and nine o’clock, he went upstairs and hanged himself by means of a plaid woollen scarf to the rail of the bed. Twenty minutes afterwards he was discovered by one of his sons, suspended by the neck and with his knees upon the floor of the room. The jury returned a verdict that the deceased committed suicide whilst in a state of temporary insanity.

I don’t know who Bumford is?
I guess you are talking about Noah’s sibling Thomas? I haven’t followed that line yet. Nor any of Thomas Snr siblings.,
I need to get back on Ancestry when an offer is on to add to my tree and look at others!

Hi Mike
First of all thanks for all your help. You must be a professional. I got nowhere at the library but to be honest I needed to see this all on a tree to make sense of it which I do now.
I couldn't find a death entry for James Robbins but we did see a grave marked John Robbins in the Penallt cemetery so now I shall pursue that name. I couldn't find a census entry after 1841 census for James but I will try under his mother when I go back as he lived with her.
I'm going to look for a baptism for Sarah Evans now as that could be her. Maybe they moved to Monmouth together.
Noah had a sister named Sarah so I just need to rule her out
Thank you so much
Kind regards
Chris

I have a death cert of Sarah Robbins widow of John Robbins of Penallt on 1863. Sorry this was deep in my notes . I’ll look for a census entry for John as well as a death.
Noah had a sister Sarah born 1791. Clearly a popular name then. It’s also my daughters name!!! I also have a son called James! I must have known!

Just to say - I am not a professional and have no desire to be one.

You may find the Mongenes website of help to you. The Penalt Registers have been transcribed and are in a searchable database on that site.

Mike

You have been a massive help so thank you very much. I’m indebted to you
Chris

Thanks for the info about Mongenes - I've joined now. Ive just sent off for the 1846 death cert of Sarah Robbins so we shall soon know whether its the right one!

Hi Mike
Just received the PDF for Sarah Robbins but its not ours. This lady was the widow of a William Robbins of Lyppiatt Lane St George
I'll now order the other one
Thanks for all your help
Chris

I have just been looking again at the 1841 Census for Penallt where I found James Robbins and Elmira Cutter but also living at that address was Edwin Bumford aged 4!!! This needs looking into. Cant find a birth cert so assume he was born at the end of 1836. Will look for baptism records
Thank you!!!!

Hi I've been looking at this again. Selina would have been only 16 in 1843 - would this have been a normal age to marry then? Maybe she was pregnant. I think she must have been living with James at the time of the 1841 census as she would have been only 14. I assume that is why Sarah was there on the date that the census was taken in 1841. I now have her death certificate which shows she died in 1863 and is the widow of John Robbins and is buried in Penallt. Ive been looking for James Robbins as per the 1841 census so will now resume with John!

We went to St Briavels last week. They have an alphabetical list of burials together with the corresponding plot number on a map. We were able to identify a Cutter grave but couldn't read it as had been obliterated with the passage of time. I need to contact the church again to find out if they have a list of who is in the graves. There were Gough graves there too.

I need to look at the 1851 and 1861 census to see if I can find out more about where the Cutters lived and Sarah Robbins.

Thanks so much for your help so far
Warm regards
Chris

If this is Sarah she was alive in 1861,

GR 1861 Census, Bristol, St Paul, Brunswick? Place

Geo. LANE, Head, Mar, 42, Plasterer, b. Ross, Hereford
H LANE, Wife, Mar, 42, Dress maker, Monmouth
Geo LANE, Son 13, Bristol
Wm LANE, Son, 12, Bristol
C H LANE, Daur, 9, Bristol
J H LANE, Son, 7, Bristol
Sarah ROBBINS, Mother-in-law, Widow, 75, Monmouth
A J GRIFFITHS, Visitor, Un, 22, Dress maker, Monmouth

Is this a possibility for her death?

GR England & Wales deaths 1837-2007
First Name Sarah Ann
Last Name Robbins
Gender Female
Year 1865
Birth Year
Birth Month
Birth Day
District Bristol
County Gloucestershire
Country England
Volume 6A
Event Quarter 4
District Number
Page 43
Line Number 36
Entry Number

Have you considered that Selina was a late baptism? There are many examples of this in the records.

Going back a few posts, Edwin BUMFORDS parents were Thomas and Amelia. His baptism is on FamilySearch.

Thanks once again for your help. I’ll order that death certificate to see if it is Sarah. It’s the right age. I should use familysearch more often. I don’t know enough I yet to know which tools to use to help me.
I’m still waiting for Selina marriage certificate to see if that gives any more clues.
Thanks once again
Chris

I just want to say a massive thank you to both of you for all help.

I think I have established that Sarah's maiden name is Evans, born in Newland to Thomas and Anne Evans 1782. She had a sister Anne who married Thomas Howells and they were witnesses to Noah Cutters marriage to Anne Gough.

Edwin Bumford who was present in Penallt with Elmira (Mirah) is I believe Sarah's nephew. I think that her mother is Amelia Sarah's other sister who married Thomas Bumford. I found an entry for Edwin in 1861 census which describes him as dumb.

I can still find no entry for Anne Gough's death nor a marriage to Sarah but maybe Sarah and Noah just moved to Monmouth to live together and raise their 3 children.

I am still waiting for Selina's marriage cert (it is due) to confirm the maiden name of her mother

Thank you both so much again - I wouldn't have got this far without your help
Chris

Had a rethink and I now believe Amelia to be Sarah's illegitimate daughter born 1808 and therefore Edwin is her grandson

Mike how did you find the 1841 census entry you refer to? I have tried every combination on Ancestry and nothing comes up! My cousins are waiting with bated breath the next installment of our tree - I'm the only one doing it and have already solved some family mysteries about the children of Phillip Davis son of Elmira and John Davis - a very sad story which made me cry!

Hopefully this link will take you there: https://bit.ly/2oi8Xr8

Mike

Hi
sometimes the free-access FamilySearch site finds records easier than the subscription sites. In this case I searched "Jame albert Cutler" born between "1820" and "1830" and the very first hit without giving any more info was the 1841 Census.
Sure it doesnt have the actual image, so hard to tell exactly which household is which, and the FamilySearch site transcripts don't give all the info off the later Census' forms, but I suggest still well-worth using if only as a pointer or backup. Especially as it's very user-friendly and always offers good alternative spellings etc.

Hope this link works (btw it's always wise to open links in a new tab/page)

J

https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%2...