Anne Edmonds married John Jones, John James, Wm Jayne

In my 11 year search of James Jayne born 1805 in Newland it now has come down to YDNA . My brother William A. Jayne did a YDNA test back in 2007. I pretty much knew from the DNA that we did not match with Jayne males. We match with the surname of James. It seems that Thomas James is James Jayne. His father was John James who died in 1806. There is a marriage record for Anne Jones (surname is Edmonds) and John James in 1800. Both are listed as being widowed. Then two children are baptized in Newland, January of 1806. The children are Thomas James and Anne James. John James has a burial record in Monmouth for February 1806. In 1808 Anne Edmonds Jones James married William Jayne in Wales. They have a daughter named Anne Jayne in 1808. Anne changes the name of Thomas James to JAMES Jayne. I cannot find Anne James/Jayne born about 1803. So I need help in finding John James, his parents, first wife and children from his first marriage. I’m sure hoping someone knows something about the James family. So this makes James Jayne’s mother, Anne Edmonds Jones James Jayne. A bonus for me would be any Jones people who have Anne’s daughters Anne and Jane in their tree. There could be sons also from the Jones marriage. Anne Edmonds married John Jones in 1788 and he was a butcher.
Thanking in advance.
Janice Jayne-St. Gemme
Colorado USA

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On Ancestry there is the Will of Jane EDMUNDS, Spinster of Newent 1815 - (very wealthy lady) - who makes many requests - and talks about her Kinswoman : Ann EDMUNDS and Kingsman, Christopher EDMUNDS the Elder, Butcher of Newent - and Mrs Ann JONES - of Newent - Widow - to whom she leaves £200. and her daughter £50.

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On Ancestry, the Wills held by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury - for Christopher Edmunds of Newent dated 15 March 1825 - mentions his Wife, Mary - and Ann JONES - Widow and her daughter Ann JONES

On the Forest of Dean records - Christopher was aged 68 when he died in 1824.n (c1756)

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Ann EDMUNDS was aged 21 on her marriages - born c1766

? baptism at Newent - 20 March 1764, Ann EDMUNDS, parents: Christopher & Ann

Will look into this further!

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Anne Edmunds (Edmonds) I've seen it both ways. Anne was born in Skenfrith, Monmouthshire Wales. Her sister Jane was also. The Dad is listed as William Edmonds. Not sure where he was born.
Thanks.
Jan

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Hi Jan,
am posting this as it may hopefully help researchers.

If I understand correctly, these records are correct, from FamilySearch;

Name Anne Edmonds
Residence Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Gender Female
Christening Date 24 Oct 1774
Christening Date (Original) 24 Oct 1774
Christening Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Father's Name Wm. Edmonds

Is this sister Jane you know of ? , Llantilio Crossenny is only abt 3 miles SW of Skenfrith. If is same record you've seen, we have mother's name too.

Name Jane Edmond
Gender Female
Christening Date 30 Dec 1761
Christening Date (Original) 30 DEC 1761
Christening Place LLANTILLIO CROSSENNY,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name William Edmond
Mother's Name Mary

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Which I think also gives us;

Name Charles Edmunds
Residence Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 30 Jun 1776
Christening Date (Original) 30 Jun 1776
Christening Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Father's Name Wm. Edmunds

Name William
Gender Male
Burial Date 02 Jan 1763
Burial Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Father's Name William Edmant

Name Elizabeth Edmant
Residence Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Sep 1762
Christening Date (Original) 19 Sep 1762
Christening Place Skenfreth, Monmouth, England
Father's Name William Edmant

Name Elizabeth Edmonds
Gender Female
Christening Date 14 Apr 1759
Christening Date (Original) 14 APR 1759
Christening Place LLANTILLIO CROSSENNY,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name William Edmonds
Mother's Name Mary

Name Margaret Edmunds
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Nov 1755
Christening Date (Original) 19 NOV 1755
Christening Place LLANTILLIO CROSSENNY,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name Wm. Edmunds
Mother's Name Mary

Name William Edmonds
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 May 1754
Christening Date (Original) 23 MAY 1754
Christening Place LLANTILLIO CROSSENNY,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Death Date 14 Jan 1755
Father's Name William Edmonds
Mother's Name Mary

Name Maria Edmond
Gender Female
Christening Date 10 Jun 1751
Christening Date (Original) 10 JUN 1751
Christening Place LLANTILLIO CROSSENNY,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name William Edmond

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FamilySearch has several marriage records for "William Edmonds & Mary" c1750-1770 ish, but only one anywhere near our likely area. It's also a very good fit wrt the baptisms, could this be our parents ?.

Name William Edmond
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 21 May 1751
Event Place Llanvetherine, Monmouthshire, Wales
Spouse's Name Mary Richard

Llanvetherine is only 2 miles from Llantilio, towards the important market town of Abergavenny.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanvetherine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanvetherine

Hoping this helps a litte
J

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I doubt if this is my Ann. After John James died in 1806 she married Wm. Jayne. Wm. and Ann Jayne are on the 1841 and 1851 census living in Dixton Monmouth Wales.

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For completeness/clarity here they are c/o FamilySearch;

1841 Buckholt M B, Dixton Newton, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Jayn M 60-64 NOT Monmouthshire
Ann Jayn F 60-64 Monmouthshire

So both born abt 1777-1781.

"M.B" = Mally Brook - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckholt,_Monmouthshire

1851 Dixton Newton, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Jayne Head M 80 Charcoal Carrier Receiving Parochal Relief. Painswick, Gloucestershire
Anne Jayne Wife F 83 Skenfrith, Monmouthshire

So Wm born abt 1771, Anne born abt 1768.

Unfortunately for us these are not unusual names in Dixton area at this time, eg from this site's PRs;

Record_ID: 235207
Entry_Number:
Year: 1849
Month: Sep
Day: 2
Surname: JAYNE
Forenames: Ann
Residence: Monmouth
Age_at_death: 77
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex: J500

So born abt 1772 !?..

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I've seen that burial. But Anne and Wm. Jayne are on the 1851 census living at the same residence Dixton. Very confusing. I have a cousin who lives in England who disagrees with everything. She says why would Anne give Edmonds as her last name when she married Wm. Jayne. She could be right. At this point I do not know. When my grandparents were married, Albert Jayne and Eliza Ann Trigg the witnesses were a Mary Ann Jones and a John Jones. I think they were brother and sister. When my grandfather became a citzen his witnesses were John Jones and Thomas Jones. I have traced the John, Thomas and Mary Ann Jones to Illinois but then I lose them in 1900. I think they were from Wales. My grandmother even had a daughter named Mary Ann Jayne. Like I said very confusing. I need a road map. But DNA does not lie....
Then I found a tree on Ancestry that has very similar info about John James and Thomas James. He states he could be wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Between the Jones and James line it gets confusing. Thanks Jeff.

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Transcription of Marriage at Skenrith from MonGenes

12 May 1808

Bride: Ann EDMONDS (Jones is not listed on the transcription)

Groom : William JAYN

Signature or Mark : Both X (so neither could read or write)

Witness 1: Jane PORTER X

Witness 2: John PROBYN

by Banns

Memoranda in the register: Consent of parties

There are 5 EDMONDS brides marriage listed at Skenfrith from 1807 - to 1870

This is the nearest near Ann EDMONDS

Bride: Elinora EDMONDS

Groom: John WILLIAMS

Signature or Mark: Both X

Witness 1: Thomas EDMONDS

Witness 2: John PROBYN

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There are 5 Grooms marriages listed 1787/1788/1797 and 1866

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On the 1841 census as listed in previous reply is the couple

Monmouthshire, Newton Dixton, District 8 Page 2 of 6

and listed on page 6 of 6 of District 8 is

William JAYN - 30
Amelia - 30 (can be found in later census returns: either spelt JANE or JAYNE - born Dixon : 1891 census in Herefordshire)
George - 3
Louisa - 2 (Louisa is aged 51 and living with her mother 1891 census, Herefordshire, Welsh Newton)
Margaret - 2 months.

Family Search has the baptism of Mary JAYNE, daughter of William & Amelia 1830 Trevethin, Monmouthshire

Forest of Dean records

Marriage at Dixton: 8 December 1834

William JAYNE - Batchelor, of this parish,
Amelia EVANS - Spinster, of this parish

William & Amelia JAYNE's children are on the records for Dixton christenings and in some of them William is listed as a Charcoal Carrier, so must be John WILLIAMS' son - (same occupation)

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? What children did William JAYN and Ann EDMONDS have

Have gone through the Painswick Records on Ancestry - so far no baptism of William - the only JAMES I can see iso far is

11 September 1774 - Ann daughter of Rich JAMES

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Just want to say big thanks to MPG for reminding me to join MonGenes, have been meaning to do so for a while now but have now done so at last .... glad to see it's adding some useful records to this thread.

And to Jayne, sorry for worrying you by mentioning the 1847 Ann Jayne burial record, I was merely reminding us all that unfortunately there's plenty of room for errors here due to the sheer numbers of different people with the same names in the same general area at the same time.
I'm currently limited to FamilySearch and their transcripts when searching the Census'. Ancestry etc would give me more info, but searching FS again gives this record which may well be the lady in the Monmouth Burial ? I cannot easily find her in the later census, but still needs further researching to prove if she is relevant to your family.

1841 Wye Bridge Lane, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Jane M 65-69 Monmouthshire
Ann Jane F 60-64 Monmouthshire
Esther Jane F 20-24 Monmouthshire
Mary Knight F 10 Monmouthshire

Ideally I'd have found this John Jane alone in the 1851 Census, a widow without Ann.
Instead I found this PR, not a perfect match but ??
Just maybe both this and the earlier Ann Jane d1847 Burials are NOT your family but are from the above household ?.

Record_ID: 235014
Entry_Number:
Year: 1847
Month: Apr
Day: 8
Surname: JANE
Forenames: John
Residence: Monmouth
Age_at_death: 87
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_No:
Parish_Chapel: Monmouth
Soundex: J500

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Jayne,
for now I think you should stick with your own instinct and thorough research - and don't read too much into public trees on Ancestry, they're not always right, and are often very wrong indeed ! That's why you're in good hands with MPG to help you, who has far more skills and insight than me.
But hey I'm sure you already know all this.

atb J

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Thank you Jeff. Wm. Jayn (Jayne) and Anne Edmonds have a marriage record on MonGenes in May 1808. I am also confused by her using her surname. But...DNA doesn’t lie. My brothers DNA matches with James. I have trouble getting into Mongenes web site. Once I get in I don’t dare get out. The next time I try, it tells me that I’m not authorized. I’ve told them but no one answers me. I have been talking to the man who has the tree on Ancestry. He is gone for a week but he is going to the records office when he gets back. I think he is wrong. He didn’t know that they were both widowed. I really think I have the right Ann because of the parish Skenfrith. I haven’t been to Wales because I didn’t know all this when I was there before. My new trip...Wales.
Jan

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Thanks for checking. Jane Porter was her sister. I think Anne had really bad luck with men dying. But Anne and Wm. Jayne were still married in 1851 plus. I still think I’m correct with the John and Thomas James. There is no record on the Forest of Dean for James Jayne nor on MonGenes. You can now view records on line for Family Search. I did that for Newland and nothing in 1805 for James Jayne.
I still do not know John James father. James and Mary Wintle Jayne named their children after relatives. My great grandfather was the Stephen. That gives me a clue. The Thomas Jayne was after his name before his mother changed it. The Joseph might have been for her father Joseph Wintle. I looked on my tree and I have 252 Jayne people who are not really Jayne. Anne Jayne made a decision 200 years ago
and had no idea that DNA would come into play. Amazing.
Jan

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Back to the marriage of Ann EDMONDS to William JAYN - 12 May 1808 - at Skenrith - witnesses: Jane PORTER, and John PROBYN.

'Thanks for replying' Jane PORTER was her sister'

Marriage at Monmouth on the Forest of Dean records

18 February 1800

Tho PORTER of this Parish
Jane EDMONDS of this Parish

witnesses: Susannah BAKER and Thomas EVANS

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Thanks. Will look them all up.

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