Henry Hale & family, Ruspidge East Dean, continued (General)

by Jefff , West London, Middlesex, Monday, October 07, 2019, 21:40 (1655 days ago) @ Jefff

(continued)

Record_ID: 33004
Entry_Number: 3
Year: 1893
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: HALE
Grooms_Forenames: Henry
Grooms_Age: 43
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Hale
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: John
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Engine Man
Brides_Surname: BROWN
Brides_Forenames: Alice
Brides_Age: 35
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Brown
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: James
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Labourer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He marks she signs
Witness_1: Job Brown
Witness_2: Mary Brown
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: H400
Soundex_Bride: B650

And apparently at the same time, wow what a Christmas Day for Henry and his family !!

Record_ID: 33005
Entry_Number: 4
Year: 1893
Month: Dec
Day: 25
Grooms_Surname: BROWN
Grooms_Forenames: Timothy
Grooms_Age: 27
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Stonemason
Grooms_Residence: Greenwich [Kent]
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Brown
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Timothy
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Stone Mason
Brides_Surname: HALE
Brides_Forenames: Bertha
Brides_Age: 22
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hale
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Henry
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Henry Hale
Witness_2: Vera Morgan
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 2
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: B650
Soundex_Bride: H400

1901 East Dean, Cinderford St John Parish, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Henry Hale Head M 52 Coal miner. Coleford, Gloucestershire
Alice Hale Wife F 42 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Joseph Hale Son M 21 Coal miner. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Fred Hale Son M 18 Coal miner. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Earnest Hale Son M 15 Coal miner. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Frank Hale Son M 13 Scholar. Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Gertrude Hale Daughter F 6 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Amelia Hale Daughter F 2 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

The baptism PRs (see previous post) show Joseph and Fred were both born Ruspidge nr Cinderford, 1876 & 1882 resp) and from John's previous marriage to Elisabeth. No sign of Bessie in this 1901 census as we expected, or any other sister(s) of similar age. Youngest son Frank was also Elisabeth's.
Cannot find a PR but GlosBMD shows Henry's next child Gertrude was with 2nd wife Alice nee Brown, as suspected from the gap in ages on census, and Elisabeth's death in 1892 of course;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALE Gertrude Mary BROWN 1894 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 2 105

Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HALE Alice Amelia BROWN 1898 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 6 349
(There is also a baptism PR for Alice).

------------

Back to the marriage of Bertha Hale to Timothy Brown on Christmas Day 1893.

Was groom Timothy Brown related to Henry's new wife ?
He resides in Greenwich, Kent (East London nowadays), is this linked to Bertha's sisters Bessie and Sarah also moving to London ? Seems likely !

The 1901 Census shows the couple lived in Greater London for a while, and at about the right timeframe. Before that the Census shows they were in Timothy's home area in Dorset.

I see there are a couple of "Langton"s in Dorset, one near Blandford Forum, and Langton Matravers which may be more likely, given it's particularly known for limestone quarrying (but so is much of Dorset, so ...??)
See http://members.iinet.net.au/~suegar/langton.htm
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DOR/LangtonMatravers

By 1900 the family were in Ladywell Kent. Nowadays this is part of Lewisham,
see https://hidden-london.com/gazetteer/ladywell/

1901 Lewisham, St Mary's Parish, London.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Timothy Brown Head M 35 Stone Mason. Langton, Dorsetshire
Bertha Brown Wife F 29 Rusfridge, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth E Brown Daughter F 6 Langton, Dorsetshire
Marjorie M Brown Daughter F 0 Ladywell, Kent

By 1905 they were back in East Dean, presumably the Ruspidge end of Cinderford ?;

1911 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England,
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Timothy Brown Head M 45 Stone mason at stone firms. Langton, Dorsetshire
Bertha Brown Wife F 39 Ruspidge, Gloucestershire
Marjorie Maud Brown Daughter F 10 Ladywell, Kent
Walter John Brown Son M 6 Ruspidge, Gloucestershire
Frederick James Brown Son M 4 Ruspidge, Gloucestershire

Both the son's Baptisms at St Johns are in the PRs, and also Dorothy Adeline born 7th June 1915, father still a stone mason, and all still in Ruspidge.

Record_ID: 67542
Entry_Number: 1491
Year: 1935
Month: Jul
Day: 31
Surname: BROWN
Forenames: Timothy
Residence: 13 Ruspidge Road
Age_at_death: 70
Officiating_Minister: G H Kay C P G
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: A/1/69
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/15
Page_No: 187
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: B650

Record_ID: 68912
Entry_Number: 460
Year: 1952
Month: Feb
Day: 13
Surname: BROWN
Forenames: Bertha
Residence: 52 White Chimneys Wick
Age_at_death: 80 years
Officiating_Minister: W J Turnbull Methodist Minister
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes: 5/52 written in margin
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/16
Page_No: 58
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: B650

I have NO idea where White Chimneys Wick is ?? Doubt it's the Wick in far north of Scotland ?

Maybe worth following up wrt the rest of her family, did they move outside the Forest ?