Thanks very much
I am now certain having tracked them on several census returns that the Caroline Stephens to Edward Brinsford marriage in 1861 in Birmingham is the correct one as I have found Edward at the same address as Caroline's sister was married from and lodging with a John Gill who was a witness to Esther's marriage.
However, a further intrigue is that Caroline and Edward's son married Esther's daughter.... first cousins!!!
I have ordered Caroline Stephens marriage certificate to see if it gives me any more clues about her parents, my ggg grandparents.
Deborah

Have just found this site and registered and seen your reference to a Caroline Stephens who married Williams Roberts. These are my paternal gt gt grandparents
I have their marriage cert 18 Dec 1861 married at Register Office, Westbury on Severn district. Both living at Stenders East Dean. William 22yrs a collier was his Father George Roberts. Caroline also 22yrs a spinster no occupation, but Father Robert Stephens as a Collier. Witnesses were a Nathaniel Smart and a Mary Robinson. No idea where they fit in but on FreeBMD I spotted a marriage for this couple,

My paternal Grandmother Mary Roberts is one of their many children and born in East Dean in Gloucester c1868/9 but I have been unable to find a baptism or establish a date of birth for Grandma Mary. I have requested several birth certificates but the staff at Gloucester Register Office have not found a Mary Roberts with parents William and Caroline Roberts nee Stephens and so I am stuck!

I traced Mary Roberts to Pontypridd where she married a James Williams and 3 sons were born from this marriage before James sadly died at a young age. Mary Roberts/Williams married my paternal Grandfather William George Tucker as a 29yr old widow in Pontypridd September 1899 and went on to have 5 sons and a daughter. I have Mary Tuckers death certificate she died in December 1912 but dispite living in the same area of Glamorgan for many years I have been unable to find the final resting place for my paternal Grandmother in any church burial grounds or municipal cemeteries. My Grandfather went on to remarry and he is buried with his second wife and a young 3yr old daughter from this 2nd marriage in St Cattwgs churchyard Gelligaer Glamorgan.

My Grandma Mary Roberts/Williams/Tucker is a mysterious lady, I have the "middle pieces" but NO birth or burial details......? I wondered if you could suggest what to do next please?

Regards
Glo

Slowhands
Thank you so much for you help with this.
Great minds obviously think alike as I had found these census and marriage records yesterday evening. Thanks for your efforts too ... much appreciated. Interestingly Esther Marion LLoyd who married Edward Brinsford (son of Caroline nee Stephens) was the daughter of Esther LLoyd nee Stephens so they were first cousins.
Deborah

I am afraid I have not pursued the parents of my Edward Brinsford as he was related to me only by marriage (albeit related twice over as first cousins married each other.

All I know about Edwards descendants is below (ignore the numbers, they are generated by my family tree software) how do you fit in?

Thanks
Deborah

DESCENDANTS OF EDWARD BRINSFORD

Generation No. 1

1. EDWARD BRINSFORD was born 1802 in Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England2,3. He married SARAH4. She was born 1800 in Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England5.

Notes for EDWARD BRINSFORD:
Gardener at time of son Edward's wedding in 1861

More About EDWARD BRINSFORD:
Residence: 1851, Kidderminster, Worcestershire, England5,5


Children of EDWARD BRINSFORD and SARAH are:
2. i. EDWARD2 BRINSFORD, b. 1831, Shropshire; d. 1903, Kings Norton;
ii. REBECCA BRINSFORD5, b. 1833, Shropshire, England5.

iii. HARRIET BRINSFORD5, b. 1835, Shropshire, England5.

iv. JAMES BRINSFORD5, b. 1837, Shropshire, England5.

v. JOHN BRINSFORD5, b. 1840, Bewdley, Worcestershire, England5.

Generation No. 2

2. EDWARD2 BRINSFORD (EDWARD1)6,7,8 was born 1831 in Shropshire8, and died 1903 in Kings Norton. He married CAROLINE STEPHENS9 22 Dec 1861 in Aston Parish Church, daughter of THOMAS STEPHENS and ANNE. She was born 1830 in St Briavels Gloucestershire, and died 1909 in Kings Norton.

Notes for EDWARD BRINSFORD:
Living in 1861 before his marriage to Caroline at Barker Street, Aston, a lodger with the Gill family.
John Gill was a witness to the marriage of Esther Stephens (sister of Caroline) in 1856 and Barker Street was her address when she married by licence to George LLoyd.

Marriage to Caroline Stephens in December 1861, occcupation Gardener (like his father) and Bachelor aged 31 living in Aston manor. Witnesses John Gill and Sarah Brinsford

More About EDWARD BRINSFORD:
Residence: 1901, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England10

Notes for CAROLINE STEPHENS:
Caroline Stephens was a witness to the marriage of her sister Esther to George LLoyd in Birmingham in 1856.
Unable to find her with certainty on 1841census

1861 Edward before his marriage was a lodger, Landscape Gardener living at Barker Street, Aston. This is the same road Esther was living at in 1856 when she married George LLoyd.

Marriage to Edward Brinsford on 22/12/1861 at St Peter and St Pauls Church in the parish of Aston. Caroline was a spinster aged 32 and no occupation recorded. Her father Thomas was a farmer. Witnesses were John Gill and Sarah Brinsford. What was the connection between John Gill and the Stephens/Brinsford families???

1871 Living in Handsworth, road name not clear Edward is Gardener and Florist and they have 3 young children at home Alfred 1864, James 1865 and Amy 1868
NB sister Esther's daughter (Esther) married an Alfred Brinsford born 1864, was this the same person???
1881 Living at 141 Birchfield Road, Handsworth, Edward working as Gardener
1891 Living at 139.5 Birchfield Road Handsworth and daughter in law Marion born 1866 Shrewsbury living with them, wife of Alfred presumably. Edward was a Gardener.
1901 Living at Shawhurst Lane, Wythall, Kings Norton, Edward was a Nurseryman aged 71. Daughter Amy aged 33 single and stll at home, a Jewellers clerk.
1903 Edward died in Kings Norton
1909 Caroline died Kings Norton.

More About CAROLINE STEPHENS:
Residence: 1901, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England10

Children of EDWARD BRINSFORD and CAROLINE STEPHENS are:
3. i. ALFRED EDWARD3 BRINSFORD, b. 1864, Handsworth.
ii. JAMES ARTHUR BRINSFORD, b. 1865, Handsworth.

More About JAMES ARTHUR BRINSFORD:
Residence: 1871, Handsworth, Staffordshire, England11

iii. AMY BRINSFORD12, b. 1868, Handsworth.

More About AMY BRINSFORD:
Residence: 1901, Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England12

Generation No. 3

3. ALFRED EDWARD3 BRINSFORD (EDWARD2, EDWARD1) was born 1864 in Handsworth. He married ESTHER MARIAN LLOYD13 Sep 1890 in Atcham, Montgomoryshire 6a 1173, daughter of GEORGE LLOYD and ESTHER STEPHENS. She was born 1865 in Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England14,15.

More About ALFRED EDWARD BRINSFORD:
Residence: 1901, Handsworth, Staffordshire, England15

Notes for ESTHER MARIAN LLOYD:
Name: Esther Lloyd
Year of Registration: 1865
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Shrewsbury (1837-71)
County: Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 612

1881 possible record of Esther Marian LLoyd aged 15, visitor at Broadway Hall,
1890 marriage record, Esther Marian Lloyd sept 1890 Atcham Montgomeryshire to Alfred Brinsford 6a 1173 This was her first cousin, the son of her mother's sister Caroline.
1891 Marian Brinsford is living with her husband and his parents
1903 Esther Marian Brinsford was the person to notify the death of her mother, Esther Lloyd

More About ESTHER MARIAN LLOYD:
Residence: 1881, Churchstoke, Montgomeryshire, Wales16

Children of ALFRED BRINSFORD and ESTHER LLOYD are:
i. AMY4 BRINSFORD, b. 1892, Handsworth, Birmingham.
ii. GLADYS BRINSFORD, b. 1893, Handsworth, Birmingham.
iii. ESTHER BRINSFORD, b. 1895, Handsworth, Birmingham.
iv. EDWARD BRINSFORD, b. 1900, Handsworth, Birmingham.

This Esther Marian Lloyd was the sister of my great grandfather Walter John Lloyd, his mother Esther Lloyd nee Stephens was the sister of Caroline Stephens