I cannot find a Baptism, but this fits, from GlosBMD;

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BAGLIN William BAGLIN BAGLIN HAWKINS 1877 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 35 49

(So born 2 years BEFORE Ephraim's brother apparently died at Isandlwana, so was not named "in his memory" it seems)

This Burial PR fits nicely;

Record_ID: 248002
Entry_Number: 49
Year: 1939
Month: Oct
Day: 2
Surname: BAGLIN
Forenames: William
Residence: Mile End R.D. nr. Coleford Glos
Age_at_death: 62 years
Officiating_Minister: Wyndham Jones vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda: new church yard 3rd row No. 13
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/17
Page_No: 7
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: B245

Think this is his marriage, altho need Census confirmation, from GlosBMD;

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BAGLIN William HARDWICK Gertrude Amelia Forest of Dean Coleford Baptist Chapel 1908 2 4

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HARDWICK Gertrude Amelia HARDWICK HARDWICK TROTMAN 1886 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 44 193

Record_ID: 6017
Entry_Number: 308
Year: 1887
Month: Dec
Day: 11
Parents_Surname: HARDWICK
Child_Forenames: Getrude Amelia
Fathers_Forenames: George
Mothers_Forenames: Amelia
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Lane End
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: D. J. Banham (Curate)
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Oct 13th 1886
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 39
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: H632

Cannot find PRs for their children's Baptisms, but GlosBMD has;

Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BAGLIN William Leslie BAGLIN BAGLIN HARDWICK 1909 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford (Sub-district 4) 2 241
BAGLIN Ronald BAGLIN BAGLIN HARDWICK 1911 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford (Sub-district 4) 3 182

----------------

Once again the Berry Hill Crescents have a W. Baglin in this 1905 team photo, looks like he could be our William aged 28 ?. Also several Hawkins, perhaps his mother's family ?.
http://www.sungreen.co.uk/Broadwell/Berry-Hill-Crescents-1905.htm

This thread confirms it is a William !
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=7555
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/gallery/berryhill/pages/page_28.html

=====================

LATER UPDATE: Ref the earlier post suggesting the lost soldier was William HERBERT, possible half-brother to Ephraim Baglin, I cannot see him in this Isandlwana Casualties Roll.
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/despatch5_isandhlwana_isandlwana_cas...

???

So from this site's PRs;

Record_ID: 263870
Entry_Number:
Year: 1936
Month: Dec
Day: 3
Surname: BAGLIN
Forenames: Edith
Residence: Coleford
Age_at_death: 96
Officiating_Minister: Wyndham Jones vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/16
Page_No: 69
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: B245

So Edith was born abt 1840. Cannot find her Baptism, this could be her birth record ?

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
HAWKINS Edith HAWKINS HAWKINS ADAMS 1840 Forest of Dean Monmouth, Coleford 1 383
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/SimpleSearch.aspx

Record_ID: 2373
Entry_Number: 148
Year: 1861
Month: Dec
Day: 8
Grooms_Surname: BAGLIN
Grooms_Forenames: Ephraim
Grooms_Age: full
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Collier
Grooms_Residence: Five Acres
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Baglin
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Brides_Surname: HAWKINS
Brides_Forenames: Edith
Brides_Age: full
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Five Acres
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Hawkins
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: James
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Engineer
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: He signs she marks
Witness_1: Oliver Baglin
Witness_2: Rhoda Hawkins
Other_Witnesses: None
Officiating_Minister: W. H. Taylor
Event: Marriage
Memoranda: -
Notes: -
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 74
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex_Groom: B245
Soundex_Bride: H252

Record_ID: 263583
Entry_Number:
Year: 1925
Month: Apr
Day: 1
Surname: BAGLIN
Forenames: Ephraim
Residence: Berry Hill
Age_at_death: 88
Officiating_Minister: A Hoyle vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/16
Page_No: 33
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: B245

So Ephraim born abt 1837, fits nicely wrt wife Edith.

Looks like their daughter Edith ?, born abt 1880;

Record_ID: 26161
Entry_Number: 392
Year: 1903
Month: Nov
Day: 7
Grooms_Surname: PRICE
Grooms_Forenames: William James
Grooms_Age: 26
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Quarryman
Grooms_Residence: Coalway Coleford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Price
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: George
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Quarryman
Brides_Surname: BAGLIN
Brides_Forenames: Edith
Brides_Age: 23
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: Domestic Servant
Brides_Residence: Christ Church Berry Hill
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Baglin
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Ephraim
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Collier
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Sydney Price
Witness_2: Fanny Gwilliam
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Edward H. Brice
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 93 IN 1/11
Page_Number: 196
Parish_Chapel: Coleford
Soundex_Groom: P620
Soundex_Bride: B245

And her son ?

Record_ID: 6475
Entry_Number: 758
Year: 1903
Month: Jan
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: BAGLIN
Child_Forenames: Ephraim James
Fathers_Forenames: [not stated]
Mothers_Forenames: Edith
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Berry Hill
Occupation: [not stated]
Officiating_Minister: C. Barnes
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: Born Dec 8th 1902
Notes:
Register_Reference: P82 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 95
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: B245

My how my memory's failing, just realised we discussed Ephraim Baglin b1837 only weeks ago !
see this thread http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=45071
This prior thread suggests this may be Ephraim's family in

1851, at Joyford Hill.
Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth Place.
Thomas Baglin Head 33 1818 Male West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Sophia Baglin Wife 31 1820 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
John Baglin Son 16 1835 Male West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Mary Ann Baglin Daughter 15 1836 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Maria Baglin Daughter 12 1839 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Emma Baglin Daughter 9 1842 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Fanny Baglin Daughter 11 Mo 1850 Female West Dean, Gloucestershire, England

The PRs give the corresponding baptisms to parents Thomas(as per his marriage Record) and Sophia(possibly).

Year Parents_Surname Child_Forenames Fathers_Forenames Mothers_Forenames Mothers_Surname Residence Occupation Parish_Chapel
1833 BAGLIN John, Thomas & Sophia, Joyford Collier Christchurch
1836 BAGLIN Eliza, Thomas & Sophia, Joyford Collier Christchurch
1837 BAGLIN Mary Anne, Thomas & Sophia, Joyford Collier Christchurch
1838 BAGLIN Mira, Thomas & Sophia, Mount Pleasant Collier Christchurch
1841 BAGLIN Emma, Thomas & Sophia, of Coleford Coleford Wesleyan Methodist
1843 BAGLIN Jane, Thomas & Sophia, of Joyford Glos Coleford Wesleyan Methodist

Searching all Baptisms for father Thomas Baglin gives another "possible", but not a soldier;
1840 BAGLIN Mary Anne, Thomas & Ellen, Joyford Collier Christchurch

SO could the soldier have been John Baglin b1835, possibly a little old for a battle in 1879 ?.
OR maybe it is his possible half-brother William Herbert b1822, as helpfully pointed out by MPG earlier ?. This might explain why Ephraim uses the name William again for his own son b25.4.1877(wrt Scowles School Register), perhaps in memory of his lost brother ??

I cannot check the Census' now, but searching thro the PRs and GlosBMD records I cannot trace either men's future whereabouts with certainty, particularly William's ??;

Could this Burial PR, just months AFTER Isandlwana, have been named in memory of a soldier who died there ?

Record_ID: 89385
Entry_Number: 395
Year: 1879
Month: Dec
Day: 23
Surname: BAGLIN
Forenames: John
Residence: Berry Hill
Age_at_death: 11 wks
Officiating_Minister: W.H.Taylor
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC82 IN 1/14
Page_No: 50
Parish_Chapel: Christchurch
Soundex: B245

Along with what you have detailed from the Welsh newspaper, the Gloucester Journal of 26th April 1879 gives some more Baglin family information.

Edith Baglin, with of Ephraim Baglin, of Berry Hill, stated that on the previous day prisoner came to her house and asked if Ephriam Baglin lived there. She said "yes". He then inquired if she had'nt had a son killed in the Zulu War. To this she answered "No, but her husband's brother was killed there"

The newspaper then gives details of what George Skipp[s] offered to write.
"I, Eprhaim Baglin, a brother of No. 1527, Private Bom. H.M. G. Company, 2.24 Reg Foot was killed on the 22nd January, in the Zulu War. I am the only brother alive belonging to im and I claim what belong to im"

I will have a look for the military information and let you work on the Baglin family details

Dave

Hence this story from a few months later was about a still-relatively unknown battle as far as the Foresters were concerned, so different from the "instant news" world of today ! I believe the Army transport ships took about three weeks just to sail from the UK to Natal, so returning survivors of the defeat could easily take many more after rehab and so forth.

-----------

From the Cardiff Weekly Mail, 26 April 1879

"EXTRAORDINARY IMPOSTURE IN DEAN FOREST.

A SHAM ISANDULA HERO.

George Henry Skipp, of Newnham, waa charged at Coleford police court, on Tuesday, with obtaining money by false pretences under somewhat peculiar circumstances. The prisoner, a man of very emaciated appearance, went on Monday to the house of Mrs. Baglin, at Berny Hill, whose husband's brother was killed at Isandula, and told her that he was in the fight and saw her brother-in-law slain. Ha added that he took a red pocket handkerchief from the fallen soldier, and had brought it home, stating also that he (the prisoner) received a bullet through his foot, and was injured in the shoulder. The prisoner then suggested that Baglin should make an application to the War Office as he was entitled to £40 or £50, and offered to write a letter, which he did, claiming, on behalf of Baglin, his deceased brother's pay. Prisoner asked for a shilling to send the letter eff, and was given sixpence, all the money the woman had. It was shown that prisoner made other calls in the neighbourhood, and waa five times entertained with refreshments. Sergeant Hawkins proved that at two o'clock on the previous night he found the prisoner at a lodging house in the town, where he told the same story, having his foot bound and appearing lame. On removing the bandage he discovered a poultice placed upon the stocking, and on removing the stocking there was no trace of injury or wound. The prisoner held a long parley with the chairman, and adhered to hia statement as to his presence at the battle, and was exceedingly flippant in his replies to the interrogations of the bench. Eventually he was committed to prison for three months, the Chairman remarking that before the time expired, in all probability, they would know a little more about the Zulus than at present. Could the Bench have sent him for six months they would have done so. Prisoner impudently thanked the justices, and was removed."

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3418583/ART31/soldier%20dean%20forest

I'm hoping that someone can please verify whether there was a Forester, or a brother of one, named Baglin at the major defeat at Isandlwana on 22nd January 1879 ? The bulk of the British men at the battle were the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the 24th Foot, later named the South Wales Borderers, they almost all of their 540 died. Perhaps this story was covered in more detail in FoD papers c/o the BNA ?. Are there complete freely-available online rolls for the losses at Isandlwana, or does anyone own them on cd etc ?. I've tried searching online and have found the following list, which I think might contain all of the c1000 British deaths at the battle, but cannot find a Baglin listed.
http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/zulu/despatch5_isandhlwana_isandlwana_cas...

I don't have access today to FindMyPast, whose records surely cover this period of British Army records better than Ancestry ?. Of course this case occurred relatively soon after the battle, so maybe a Baglin was present, but was injured rather than killed, so is not on any Roll ?. I presume "Berny Hill" should be Berry Hill.

All thoughts greatly appreciated, thanks.

-------------------

I've also searched for the miscreant but without much success. The FoD PR database contains several George Skipps, but which if any ??. As this is the only George HENRY Skipp on the database, could he be a descendant given the similar timing ?. This site's WW1 Soldier database doesn't include any Skipps/Skypps etc. I cannot find any prior threads that relate.

Record_ID: 16111
Entry_Number: 1173
Year: 1883
Month: Jul
Day: 18
Parents_Surname: SKIPP
Child_Forenames: George Henry
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Eliza
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Woodside
Occupation: Waggoner
Officiating_Minister: J.B.Beesley Rector of Ruardean
Event: Baptism
Memoranda: P[rivately?]
Notes: Beasley?
Register_Reference: PFC109 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 147
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: S100

Record_ID: 122589
Entry_Number:
Year: 1914
Month: Apr
Day: 13
Grooms_Surname: SKIPP
Grooms_Forenames: George Henry
Grooms_Age: 31
Groom_Condition: bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: labourer
Grooms_Residence: Raglan
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Skipp
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: labourer
Brides_Surname: VEDMORE
Brides_Forenames: Emily
Brides_Age: 23
Brides_Condition: spinster
Brides_Occupation: dom servant
Brides_Residence: Wyesham
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Vedmore
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: George
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: miller
Licence_or_Banns:
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark:
Witness_1: George Vedmore
Witness_2: Ira Vedmore Other_Witnesses: Thomas Vedmore; Edith Vedmore; Louisa Skipp
Officiating_Minister: J W Rickards
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference:
Page_Number:
Parish_Chapel: Wyesham
Soundex_Groom: S100
Soundex_Bride: V356

Some people, including CND activists who'd camped outside RAF Greenham Common, have asked me why I've worked in the "bloody" defence trade. I haven't made guns or bombs, but I have engineered equipment for British military aircraft, vehicles and even warships, as well as their civilian relations.
I wholly agree with Roosevelt's "speak softly, and carry a big stick." I believe the reason those British ladies were able to camp outside Greenham Common protesting against the nuclear deterrent, is largely because we had it in the first place, otherwise they may well have been speaking Russian...
Post WW2 the USA's bombers flew under "Strategic Air Command", motto "Peace is Our Profession"; again that makes complete sense to me. I am not in favour of war if avoidable, but I do standup to bullies. I'm not overproud of our aggressive Empire-building in the past, but I am very proud of what my ancestors and our servicemen & women achieved against the likes of Napoleon and Hitler, and how our engineering prowess has supported their efforts; without the World Wars technology in all walks of life would be way-behind what we all enjoy now. Wars are never "good", but sadly they are sometimes necessary.

Anyhow, "rant" over, just felt I should explain my views to anyone who may think me a warmonger because I'm interested in tanks and guns, I'm not.

Back to your last point Roger, which casual readers may think shows the British soldiers in a very bad light, murdering unarmed wounded natives. I think the following forum thread sums-up my view, and I think reality, very well; it discusses a modern newspaper article suggesting these were war crimes.
http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=994

I'll leave my very last word on this terrible day in 1879 to the Rorke's Drift website;

"The film was perhaps too political in that it portrayed the British as an evil conniving force out to bring down the peaceful Zulu nation. It is true that unreasonable demands were made on the Zulus. Demands which were unrealistic and maybe not achievable, within unreasonable timescales, if not impossible to meet. On the other hand, the Zulus, though a great people, were ruthless and whose own political ambitions had made them the most feared race in central Southern Africa. Under King Shaka, they expanded their empire from 10 square miles to cover most of central Southern Africa in the early 1820's, not before many of their own people had been massacred. On the death of Shaka's mother (with whom it is suggested he had an "unnatural relationship"), 5,000 of his own people were put to death. Perhaps they didn't grieve loudly enough. After Shaka, Dingane took over (having had Shaka murdered), then Mpande, and eventually after a dual between brothers, Cetyweyo became king. In any event having reportedly killed 20,000 of his own people. According to their spiritual beliefs, the Zulus disembowelled their foes to release the spirits of the dead.# They did however hang drummer boys up on meat hooks at Isandlwana and cut off their testicles. After this, drummer boys were not allowed to enter battle zones again."
http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/zulu_dawn.htm

# Some say in respectful kindness to the dead, but others say to save the victors from being haunted by the spirits of the vanquished....

Thanks again Roger for helping me better understand this whole subject.
I appreciate this final post is not all local Family History, but I think the recent turns of this thread on such a gruesome subject is better for these points being clarified. I do hope my openness hasn't upset anyone, thankyou.

I know, I go boring on about subjects I'm interested in. A bit more and then I'll self silence, tee hee.

From what you wrote earlier, I assumed you had read Lt. Chard's after action report and appendix listing all men there and fate.

The whole thing with colonial wars was the fire power and the 'disciplina' of the Roman Legions as exercised by European armies. I once found a Victorian army manual in the British Library, detailing requisite numbers of regulars and native auxiliaries required to defeat all possible native enemies. PC brigade would not like it at all.

Natives made better 'fighters' than Europeans who were better 'soldiers'. Carl von Clausewitz in Vom Krieg alludes to this, although early 19th Century Prussian Army had no experience as yet.

Isandlwana was a total disaster because, for whatever reason, the Zulus were able to advance to contact and engage in hand to hand combat. At Rorkes Drift, however close they got they fell to massive firepower as depicted in the film and in battle paintings.

One last thing, we didn't take prisoners. Any Zulu wounded left after the battle were shot or bayoneted.

Sorry, are you saying this is a statement of fact, if so very surprising to me.
Or is this what was officially reported at the time, to save embarrassment perhaps ?
Certainly the official British losses I've seen appear low compared to the impresson given by the film (of course). Altho these figures seem reasonable to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rorke%27s_Drift#Aftermath

Clearly I'm not as well-read as you are, but I thought many were wounded by assegai's and presumed some must have died ?. Or have I just assumed too much from the film (which is notably blood-free...) ?
Since typing the above I've read much of the following speciallist thread, such as the fact an assegai wound was "clean" so treatable, but haven't yet seen any clear statement regarding casue of deaths. http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php/5652-Rorke-s-Drift

So on reflection I conclude your comment is indeed factual, as you presumably intended it to be. That thread suggests abt 1000 M-H rifles were taken at Isandlhwana, so if only 100 went-on to Rorke's Drift then still enough to gain a few "lucky" hits, and as you said it fired a beast of a bullet. However it always seemed rather ridiculous that the film's long-range sharpshooting by the Zulus rather put the redcoats to shame, contrary to the actual accounts and all common sense.
Still a top film tho, superb use of scenery, light etc; a great spectacle particularly as NO digital electrickery involved.

Thanks for helping me learn the facts behind the film.
Today I watched "Dambusters" yet again, so back on much more familiar ground again !

Rorkes Drift. No soldiers were killed by assegai's. All gunshot wounds. Zulu's must have come back from Isandalwana with captured Martini Henry's.

I wonder if this list includes any more Foresters ?.

-------------------

Yes the M-H Rifle was indeed a powerful weapon, especially in good hands and given good ammunition. Our own Alfred Hooke apparently said “We were using Martini's, and fine rifles they were too”, I won’t argue with him.

My comment earlier related to it’s reported cartridge problems at Isandlhwana, reminiscent in my mind to our “dud” shells at the Somme and Jutland many years later. This has been much discussed, there was even a tv documentary filmed in South Africa maybe 10 years ago. I believe the reported “jamming” problems were much-exaggerated by the British Army, to hide their own leadership failures which led to their shock defeat to “spear wielding natives” at Islandlhwana.

Your post confirms another oddity I spotted in the film, the orders to fire at “100 yards range" - no doubt good for dramatic effect, or for Napoleonic muskets, but surely far too short here ?
http://www.martinihenry.com/zulu-wars.htm

However it should still be remembered that a weapon that’s good on paper, or even the factory ranges, may struggle in actual service. Official proving tests for a new Victorian design would not have used suspect cartridges, or simulate the increasing stresses of repeatedly firing within a hot and dusty environment, both potential killers for a complex mechanical assembly. When I started in Defence work in 1984, almost a century after the Zulu Wars, I was amazed at the demanding specifications our equipment had to be proven to satisfy, seemingly incredible extremes of temperature, vibration, etc etc. However the First Gulf War still proved that even these tests on expensive modern equipment don’t always ensure survival in the field, especially when heat and sand-ingress are present !
And yes, a few M-H rifles were still in use at this time, possibly including copies manufactured in the Khyber Pass region near India. This perhaps puts it on a par with another alltime classic firearm, the Russian AK-47 assault rifle, designed in 1945 but still in service worldwide due to good performance, easy manufacture compared to Western equivalents and supreme reliablility in all conditions.

www.rorkesdriftvc.com. Biographies and photographs.

I hope people have read Bourne's BBC interview 30th December 1936. It's a very revealing insight.

Bourne said, and he was there, he reckoned there were 600 to 700 Zulu's at Rorkes Drift, not the 3,500 (Lord Chelmsford) put in his report. Lt. Chard's report of the action is on the internet somewhere.

Bourne was portrayed as an older sergeant major type of the best type for gravitas. Bourne was only 24, but must have been highly thought of by his superiors and was effectively company sergeant major. He spoke of his sergeants.

Hook as mentioned had good conduct record and no doubt got his job at the British Museum because of it.

The Martini Henry rifle was a man stopper. Weighing less than a Lee Enfield, the whole thing with sword bayonet only weighed 9lbs 4.75 ounces. 0.45 calibre. Rate of fire was 12 rounds a minute. Velocity 1,250 feet per second. Ideal firing range 400 yards, but could go out to 1,900 yards. Americans captured examples in Afghanistan as late as 2011.

-------------

Reviewing all twenty-three recipients of V.C.s during the Zulu War, four of these brave men are from our general area; the aforementioned Alfred Hooke, the two (unrelated) Jones' who fought alongside each other in one of the hospital rooms at Rorke's Drift, and also John Williams from Abergavenny, another Borderer. Williams fought alongside Alfred Hooke within the Hospital at Rorke's Drift.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Williams_(VC)

Of course many other soldiers fought and even died in this War, including at least one other Forester, Courtney FROWEN of Newland, this prior thread refers;
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=35386

(Roger, I note with interest you term the modern Regiment "the Royal Welsh" - I typed this last night before bowing to Wiki and re-typing "Royal Regiment of Wales", which in my opinion still doesn't sound correct !)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zulu_War_Victoria_Cross_recipients

www.rorkesdriftvc.com/defenders/tran.htm - radio transcript

Since corrected Link.

Offered commission after Rorkes Drift but couldn't afford it. However, he ended up as a Lieutenant Colonel OBE DCM. 1854 to 1945.

Also see Wikipedia entry for life and a photograph.

www.britishbattles.com/zulu-war/rorkes-drift.htm.

Pic. of B Coy. 24th after the battle, but not the one I was looking for which was much more closeup.

This Link doesn't seem to work, will try others. Will work if you google it.

Trouble is film makers are creative artists, they like historical subjects but then let their imaginations run away with them. The Zulu film was and is an all time winner like Lawrence of Arabia. There's a TV programme re the making of, and it was probably Stanley Baker's widow who said that within two weeks 'we knew we had a winner' and that was pre-release. I think that Stanley Baker was prime mover for the making of the film and he put a Welsh Nationalist slant to it. The 24th (2 battalions) was the South Warwickshire Regiment at the time. Only after 1881 Cardwell reforms did county affiliations start to mean anything.

"In the film Zulu, Hook is depicted as an insubordinate malingerer placed under arrest in the hospital, only to come good during the battle. However, Saul David writes in his book, Zulu: The Heroism and Tragedy of the Zulu War of 1879, that he was there as the hospital cook, subsequently as part of a small guard detail assigned to protect the patients. Saul David continues that far from the miscreant portrayed, Hook was actually a teetotaler and model soldier."

Further to this, he had been awarded Good Conduct pay shortly before the battle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hook_(VC)

That website also states
"Most of the characters in the film were based on actual participants of the battle, but their behaviour is mostly fictional – something that has provoked disapproval: in an interview on the DVD, the descendants of Private Hook objected to his portrayal as a thief and malingerer (although his character acts bravely near the end of the film during some desperate fighting). Indeed, Hook's elderly daughters walked out of the film's 1964 London premiere."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zulu_(1964_film)

The above-mentioned author Saul David was also involved in this BBC documentary from 2003. Clearly the actual events of that day in 1879, and their portrayal in the subsequent film version, describe a very sad tale however you read it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1444554/Wrong-men-given-VCs-at-Rorkes-Drift.html

----------------------

I must say that reading these accounts have saddened me and distinctly tarnished what had been a high opinion of this "classic British" feature film.
Next summer my son finishes his A levels and hopes to attend a specialist film-making college in West London, I will remind him to try his best to always portray real people accurately and respectfully.

I also wish I'd taken more notice of the film's closing credits, which lists the eleven V.C.s awarded after this battle. My reason for posting is not to discuss "proper" FoD family history at all !, but to record my pleasure that the ONLY JONES V.C. recipients were two brave men whose names combine to bear my son's name !
Not a great claim to fame I agree, but I like it :-)

My son was named William Robert JONES, William after his grand and g-great grandfathers, and then Robert after my middle name (which was a random choice). Not a surprising coincidence of course, as hardly unusual names, but I still think a rather good one.

The film has us believe it was largely fought by Welsh soldiers singing "men of Harlech", so I initially thought there may have been a higher percentage of Jones' present. I do know the action is justly commemorated at the Brecon Barracks of the (now)Royal Regiment of Wales, their Regimental March is indeed "Men of Harlech", and the film is watched by every new recruit. However, as has been already mentioned on this forum, the soldiers involved at this battle were drawn from right across our area from Monmouthshire to Birmingham;

"The 1964 film Zulu is a depiction of the Battle of Rorke's Drift. The film received generally positive reviews from the critics. Some details of the film's account have, however, been criticised as historically inaccurate (for example, in the movie the regiment is called the South Wales Borderers but the unit was not in fact called that until two years after the battle, although the regiment had been based at Brecon in South Wales since 1873). While most of the men of the 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment of Foot (1/24) were recruited from the industrial towns and agricultural classes of England, principally from Birmingham and adjacent southwest counties, only 10 soldiers of the 1/24 that fought in the battle were Welsh. Many of the soldiers of the junior battalion, the 2/24, were Welshmen. Of the 122 soldiers of the 24th Regiment present at the Battle of Rorke's Drift, 49 are known to have been of English nationality, 32 were Welsh, 16 were Irish, 1 was a Scot, and 3 were born overseas. The nationalities of the remaining 21 are unknown."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rorke%27s_Drift#Defensive_preparations

The V.C.s awarded during the Zulu War are listed here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Zulu_War_Victoria_Cross_recipients

One of the two JONES V.C.s, Robert, was actually from the Welsh Borders, Raglan area. After the battle he settled in Peterchurch, Herefordshire, only to later commit suicide as a direct result of his awful experiences and wounds at Rorke's Drift.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jones_(VC)

His fellow JONES namesake William was from Evesham, Worcestershire. Sadly he had to pawn his V.C. before dying a pauper in a Manchester workhouse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jones_(VC)

Name: Ellen Higgs ?
Name: Henry Hook
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Gloucester (1837-1937)
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 467

TTFN

Joss