Forest of Dean FHT Forum - Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school?

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

mrsbruso — Sun, 02 Jan 2011 03:15:02 +0000

Not from the grammar school angle, but . . . have you sent for copies of both of the marriage certificates?

There's a chance that the marriage could have been set aside (annulled) if either or both of the parties weren't freely entering into matrimony. I would hazard a guess that she presented herself as an orphan, it was because she wanted to keep her secret regarding Barbara's birth and her first marriage, and the only way for that to work was to keep her distance from her birth family.

She might have been forced into the marriage for the sake of the child. Perhaps, once her marriage failed her family were against her keeping the child. Since there is such a small window of time between her first and second marriages, it should be possible to investiage whether an annulment or divorce were granted. (Given the short time period, an annulment might be a better guess, as I believe the waiting period for a divorce would have been longer.)

The certificates, and whether or not an annulment or divorce were granted, and on what grounds, may answer many (but not all) of your questions. (This may not be as easy as I had originally thought. Many of the records have been sealed for 75 years; it seems that even then a physical visit to Kew might be needed.)If I were to hazard a guess, however, I would say that it takes a remarkable woman to uproot herself, with an infant in hand, and establish a new life for herself elsewhere, cutting all ties to her family in the process. Is your Aunt Barbara still alive? Is she curious about her natural father?

I found what might have been a subsequent marriage for a Frederick in 1944 to a Mary A Lootes (6A-1301) in Cotswald North. May be the wrong fellow, as there seem to be three Frederick John Davis' banging around in the Forest, born within a ten year span of time.

I hope whatever it was that caused your Nan to make such a drastic decision, that she went on to have a happy life and marriage . . .

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

KathyJ — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 22:02:33 +0000

I Just thought, Muriels father could have come to live in Wales to work in the Mines, as did my Grandfather, they lived in Pillowell and about 1923 came to Wales, so I think there is a possibility they may have lived here. Kath

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

MandyH — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 22:00:59 +0000

Thank you so much Kathy...
Your kindness is much appreciated.
Mandy

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

KathyJ — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 21:58:50 +0000

I will be delighted to have a look for you, if I cannot find her there, I will have a look at Bedwellty Grammer School, which is in the same area. To have gone to either of these school, she must have lived in the area, as they where not Boarding Schools
Best wishes Kath

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

MandyH — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 21:45:44 +0000

Kathy

This is so very kind of you...thank you so much.
I am looking to establish whether or not my nan was a pupil at the Grammar school between 1924 and 1933.. Her name was Muriel Humphries.
We have some confusion in the family; my nan, Muriel, told everyone she was raised in an orphanage and never knew her parents, however, I have traced some living relatives who said that her parents always told them that she attended the Grammar School called Pangam near Fleur de Lys. The living relatives are in their 80s but are so clear on the detail....I think I need to investigate and see if she was registered as a pupil there to confirm whether or not she was an orphan. A bit confusing I know but I cannot find any record of her on any of the orphanage records we believed she was raised in, so the grammar school angle does have some credance.
Her full name was Muriel Humphries, born March 1917 to Tom and Elsie Humphries who lived in Westbury on Severn. Sadly, nan passed away in 1993 so I am trying to establish as many facts as possible to help my aunts and uncles.
I'd be so thrilled if you would kindly look at the records for the time period above and see if she was registered at the school and any other information that might help identify what she did after leaving school. If there are any photos of her, or records you can copy, I would be happy to send payment for any costs.
Thank you so very much Kathy....

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school? (reply)

KathyJ — Sat, 01 Jan 2011 20:23:17 +0000

Hi I live 10 minutes walk from the school, the original school closed several years ago, and a new one built. Please let me know exactly what you want, and I will look up records for you. I have been looking at the records early in the year for my own tree, and need to do more research. If you require a photo of the school, I can take on for you.
Kathy Jones
Commercial Street
Pengam

Muriel HUMPHRIES 1917 ( lived Chaxhill) part 2 (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:09:58 +0000

I saw and discounted this earlier !!

Name: William Stevenson
Spouse : Muriel Humphries
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1939
Registration district: Staines
Registration county (inferred): Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 103

With the outbreak of WWII - strange things happened :-)

If Husband No 1 realises that this is not his child , perhaps they simply parted....
Although she would need to be "free" to re-marry.....

Name: Barbara Humphries
Mother's Maiden Surname: Humphries
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1939
Registration district: Brentford
Registration county: Hertfordshire, Oxfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Middlesex
Volume Number: 3a
Page Number: 322

Albert DAVIS 1872 - 1941 Westbury on Severn (reply)

MandyH — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:52:03 +0000

So, so helpful...thank you so very much.
It's all a little puzzling...your records show that my nan married Frederick John Davis in spring 1939....and she married again in Winter 1939 to William Stevenson, in Staines, Middlesex. I thought maybe there were 2 Muriel Humphries and I had got them confused but I cannot find a second one born in 1917 so it has to be her. The only thing we knew about my nan was that her dad was called Tom so this definately fits. She claimed to have been an orphan, but I have found a distant cousin who claims this is nonsense and she went to a grammar school in Pengam....
Nan had a daughter, Barbara, in a/m/j 1939 (registered in Brentford), shortly after her marriage to Fred, but registered the child as Humphries. I can only presume that Frederick John Davis died very shortly after they married, but haven't found a death record (yet). I only have one clue - shortly before my nan passed away, she told my aunt that her eldest daughter Barb had a different dad, so again, that would fit with Frederick JOhn Davis being the father, just need to find a reason for her to have left GLoucestershire and end up in Middlesex.

You are such a helpful genius...thank you...
MandyH
x

Albert DAVIS 1872 - 1941 Westbury on Severn (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:52:59 +0000

Year: 1941
Month: Nov
Day: 11
Surname: DAVIS
Forenames: Albert
Residence: Boseley Cottages Westbury on Severn
Age_at_death: 69 [inferred 1872]
Officiating_Minister: Evan Evans Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/36
Page_No: 12
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

suspected parents:-

Year: 1902
Month: Oct
Day: 16
Grooms_Surname: DAVIES
Grooms_Forenames: Albert
Grooms_Age: 29
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Farm Labourer
Grooms_Residence: Popes Hill Westbury on Severn
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Davis
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: William
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Pitman
Brides_Surname: ALLEN
Brides_Forenames: Alice Jane
Brides_Age: 29
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Westbury on Severn
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Allen
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Jesse Weaver
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Mason
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Jesse Allen
Witness_2: Elizabeth Davis
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: Charles Potter Curate
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes: Surname entered as Davies underlined Groom signed Davis as per all other family entries.
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/19
Page_Number: 107
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

Year: 1873
Month: Mar
Day: 30
Parents_Surname: ALLEN
Child_Forenames: Alice Jane
Fathers_Forenames: Jesse
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Westbury
Occupation: Mason
Officiating_Minister: Chris Jay Jones Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/15
Page_Number: 136
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

<><><> possible

1911
DAVIS ALERT M 1873 38 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS ALICE J F 1873 38 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS EDITH F 1904 7 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS TOMAS M 1907 4 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire

1901

1891
William Davis abt 1847 Paynowick, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Davis abt 1848 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Albert Davis abt 1873 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Frank Davis abt 1878 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Annie Davis abt 1884 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Davis abt 1887 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire

1881
William Davis abt 1846 Sheepscombe, Gloucestershire, England Head Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Elizabeth Davis abt 1848 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Wife Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Julia Davis abt 1868 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England Daughter Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Albert Davis abt 1873 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire
Frank Davis abt 1877 Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire, England Son Westbury On Severn, Gloucestershire

Year: 1872
Month: Nov
Day: 17
Parents_Surname: DAVIS
Child_Forenames: Albert
Fathers_Forenames: William
Mothers_Forenames: Elizabeth
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Westbury on Severn
Occupation: Miner
Officiating_Minister: Frederick Thornton-Down
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P 145 IN 1/7
Page_Number: 62
Parish_Chapel: Flaxley

Muriel HUMPHRIES 1917 ( lived Chaxhill) (reply)

MandyH — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 15:35:44 +0000

Slowhands....
You are amazing...I can't say thank you enough for your help and guidance. I have just discovered a marriage my nan had that I knew nothing about and it provides another route to explore as well as answering some questions that have lingered for many years!!
I really appreciate your help.
Thank you
MandyH

Muriel HUMPHRIES 1917 ( lived Chaxhill) (reply)

slowhands — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 09:10:47 +0000

{ hint - make the Forest of Dean connection clear in your request please :-) }

Parents at Prior thread

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=28246

Name: Elsie N Cory
Spouse: Thomas Humphries
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Ulverston
County: Cumbria, Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 1279

offspring
Muriel Humphries Apr May Jun 1917 Ulverston Lancashire

Year: 1939
Month: Feb
Day: 18
Grooms_Surname: DAVIS
Grooms_Forenames: Frederick John
Grooms_Age: 30
Groom_Condition: Bachelor
Grooms_Occupation: Carpenter
Grooms_Residence: Boseley Cottage Westbury on Severn
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Davis
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Albert
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Stockman
Brides_Surname: HUMPHRIES
Brides_Forenames: Murial
Brides_Age: 21
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: Housemaid
Brides_Residence: Chaxhill Hall Cottage Westbury on Severn
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Humphries
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Storekeeper
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Ernest William Davis
Witness_2: Thomas Humphries
Other_Witnesses:
Officiating_Minister: B V Borroughs Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P354 IN 1/19
Page_Number: 237
Parish_Chapel: Westbury on Severn

possible offspring

Laurence C Davis Jul Aug Sep 1941 F of Dean Gloucestershire,
Neil A Davis Jan Feb Mar 1945 F. of Dean Gloucestershire,

<><><>

I think the school that you are looking for is the Lewis School at Pengam / Fleur de Lis

http://www.caerphilly.org.uk/lewisschoolpengam/

or maybe the
Lewis Grammar School for Girls in Ystrad Mynach

<><><><>

Name: Frederick John Davis
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 259

1911 possible family mix
DAVIS ALERT M 1873 38 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS ALICE J F 1873 38 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS EDITH F 1904 7 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS TOMAS M 1907 4 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire
DAVIS FREDRICK M 1909 2 Westbury on Severn Gloucestershire

and a possible marriage
Name: Alice Jane Allen
Name: Albert Davis
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Westbury On Severn
County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 600

This Web site specialises in the Forest of Dean (reply)

admin — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 02:13:37 +0000

As Pengam is well into Monmouthshire and a long way from the borders of Forset of Dean, I suggest you post your query in a forum covering Pengam.

Monmouthshire Family History Mailing List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/monfh/

Our Web site specialises in the Forest of Dean

Pengam, Fleur de Lys - Grammar school?

MandyH — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 23:52:43 +0000

Hi,
Has anyone heard of the above school? I am trying to find attendance records for the late 1920s and early 1930s, do you know if school registers are available to look up on line....all help most welcome!
Maybe you attended this school? Did you know a Muriel Humphries?
Any insight to this town/school/school registers or perhaps photos of the school would be so very welcome..
Thank you
MandyH