Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794) (General)

by unknown, Monday, September 10, 2012, 16:02 (4294 days ago)

Hello forum members. I have been researching my wife’s family tree and hope that somebody might be able to help with her Baldwin line.

Her 3x grandfather was Edward BALDWIN, baptised 10 Jun 1821 in Drybrook. His parents were Cornelius BALDWIN and I am fairly certain that he was the Cornelius that married Elizabeth PREECE on 11 August 1816 in Flaxley.

That’s where the trail goes cold and confusing. There are about 7 or 8 public trees on Ancestry that have Cornelius but differing ancestors. A couple have parents Charles BALDWIN (b 1780) + Ann, one has Charles BALDWIN (b 1755) + Betty Ann DOVEY, and a couple have Thomas BALDWIN (b 1782) + Ann.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Ancestors of Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Monday, September 10, 2012, 16:22 (4293 days ago) @ unknown

Hello forum members. I have been researching my wife’s family tree and hope that somebody might be able to help with her Baldwin line.

Her 3x grandfather was Edward BALDWIN, baptised 10 Jun 1821 in Drybrook. His parents were Cornelius BALDWIN and I am fairly certain that he was the Cornelius that married Elizabeth PREECE on 11 August 1816 in Flaxley.

That’s where the trail goes cold and confusing. There are about 7 or 8 public trees on Ancestry that have Cornelius but differing ancestors. A couple have parents Charles BALDWIN (b 1780) + Ann, one has Charles BALDWIN (b 1755) + Betty Ann DOVEY, and a couple have Thomas BALDWIN (b 1782) + Ann.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Jim is the "expert" here :-)
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=14638
and
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=22891

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by jimashton @, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 15:26 (4293 days ago) @ unknown

I'm not sure of Slowhands assertion of expertise, I have recently changed one of my lines of Baldwin's due to a posting on this web site. See below $$

My main interest is the Marfell family but I follow siblings and parents of spouses and sometimes get carried away by several generations, but this inevitably leads to other connections. Edward Baldwin is a case in point, he is not related to me, but his second marriage at Westbury on Severn Register Office on 9 Mar 1890 was to a Mary Ann Marfell nee Cloudley 1824/1899 :

1851 Census Ruardean (next to parents)
Edward 31
Lydia 30
Cornelius 10
Eliza 8
John 2

1861Census East Dean
Edward Baldwin abt 1819 Ruardean, Head
Lydia Baldwin abt 1800 Ruardean, Wife
Cornelius Baldwin abt 1840 Ruardean, Son
Eliza Baldwin abt 1843 Ruardean, Daughter
John Baldwin abt 1851 Ruardean, Son
Louisa Baldwin abt 1856 Ruardean Daughter

1891 Nelson Green
Edward Baldwin abt 1818 Ruardean, Head Gloucestershire
Mary Baldwin abt 1824 Mitcheldean, Wife

1901 Upper Bilson
Edward Baldwin abt 1817 Ruardean Hill,

Mary Ann nee Cloudley was already a 2nd cousin 5 times removed, before her marriage to William Marfell, my 1st cousin 4 times removed. William Marfell & Mary had 14 children before he died 12 May 1879 :

1851 Census Ruardean Herefordshire
William 28 Ruardean Coal Miner
Mary 26 Ruardean
Elizabeth 8 Ruardean
Louisa 6 Ruardean
Matilda 4 Ruardean
Rosaling 3 mths Ruardean

1861 Census East Dean
RG9 1755 182
William 39 Coal Works Manager East Dean
Mary 39 East Dean
Elizabeth 18 East Dean
Matilda 15 East Dean
Ellen 10 East Dean
Alfred 8 East Dean
William 3 East Dean
Mary 3 East Dean
Jane 1 East Dean
Charlotte 1 East Dean

1871 Census Bridge Inn East Dean
2599/134
William 50 Coal Miner Ruardean
Mary 48 Stenders East Dean
Alfred 18 Ruardean Haulier
William 13 Ruardean Haulier
Jane 11 Little Dean Hill
Richard 6 Cinderford
Charlotte 4 Cinderford
Ellen 2 Cinderford

Edward Baldwin 1821's first marriage was to Lydia, but I do not know her surname and would be interested if anyone knows.

In my version of events, I have Edward Baldwin as the son of Cornelius Baldwin 1794 & Elizabeth Preece 1788 married 11 Aug 1816 8 children.

I have Cornelius as the son of Charles Baldwin 1755 & Elizabeth Dovey 1759 - daughter of William Dovey 1725/1795 & Elizabeth Tingle 1732/1790. The will of William Dovey of Ruardean 1795 refers to son-in-law Charles Baldwin. Elizabeth Tingle 1732 had a sister Sarah 1718 who married James Waldin 1712. Their daughter Sarah Waldin 1746 married Thomas Baldwin 1746, son of James Baldwin & Betty. A case of getting carried away - however - Thomas Baldwin 1746 & Sarah Waldin had a son Moses 1777 who married.............my 5 times Great Aunt Lucy Marfell 1775 and 2 of their 4 children married people already related to me.

Getting back to Charles Baldwin 1755 I have him as the son of Charles Baldwin 1737 & Betty. Charles Baldwin 1755 & Elizabeth Dovey had 11 children, including Winifred Baldwin 1797 who married Amos Yemm 1796 - 9 children & 3 of them married Marfell's, 3 others lead to other relatives of mine. Another of Charles Baldwin 1755 & Elizabeth Dovey's children $$ William Baldwin 1791 married Hannah Bailey 1789 and the thread shown below caused me to change my family tree :

http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=37583#p37696

It is a long thread, so I will paste in the relevant item dated 22 July 2012 and avoid confusion by changing it to italics :

Roger

It is rare to have such a nice day, so I will not be on line for long. But for continuity of the thread, and possible assistance from Slowhands !!

Thank you for your email, although I do have Ancestry membership I could not seem to get into your Public Access Bertha Baldwin 1891 Tree. Noting a few trees based upon this person, I looked at them and it has caused me to rethink my line here. I now believe that the William Baldwin who married Hannah Bailey was in fact William Baldwin baptised 16 Oct 1791, son of Charles Baldwin 1755 & Elizabeth Dovey 1759. The Ancestry tree's attribute the William Baldwin who married Hannah Bailey as being the son of Charles Baldwin 1737 & Betty, but I believe this is missing a generation. Charles Baldwin 1755 I mention above is the son of Charles Baldwin 1737 & Betty.

Another factor which causes me to believe this, is that one witness of the wedding between William Baldwin & Hannah Bailey was Winifred Baldwin. William Baldwin 1791, son of Chales Baldwin & Elizabeth Dovey, had a sister Winifred. The other witness was Charles Baldwin and he had a father and brother Charles.

I did note the deaths of William Baldwin & Hannah Baldwin nee Bailey from posted death certificates did occur on the same day but 21st January 1863, not as I previously said 1st January.

Always wishing to be as accurate as possible, I will - but not today and waste the sun - amend my tree as above.

Jim Ashton

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by slowhands @, proud of his ancient Dean Forest roots, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 15:38 (4293 days ago) @ jimashton

I'm not sure of Slowhands assertion of expertise, I have recently changed one of my lines of Baldwin's due to a posting on this web site.


Jim - your understanding of this line is far better than mine :-)

--
Ἀριστοτέλης A Gloster Boy in the Forest of Dean ><((((*>

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by unknown, Tuesday, September 11, 2012, 20:11 (4292 days ago) @ jimashton

Many thanks to Slowhands and Jim for all this information. I have information on the marriage of Edward Baldwin (1821) to Lydia. The marriage certificate reads as follows:

Married on 22 December 1839 in the Parish Church in the parish of Flaxley in the county of Gloucester. Edwin Baldwyn, of full age, bachelor, engineer, resident in the hundreds of St Briavel's, father Cornelius Baldwyn, engineer. Lydia Parsons, of full age, spinster, resident in the hundreds of St Briavel's, father James Parsons, collier. Both made mark. Witnesses Isiah Parsons (mark) and William Young.

I have 1871 and 1881 census entries for Edward as follows:

1871 census: EDWARD BALDWIN (age 52, head, engine driver at coal pit, born East Dean, Gloucestershire), Lydia Baldwin (age 50, wife, born East Dean, Gloucestershire), Louisa Baldwin (age13, daughter, born East Dean, Gloucestershire), Miriam Baldwin (age 7, daughter, born East Dean, Gloucestershire), Elizabeth Baldwin (age 4, daughter, born East Dean, Gloucestershire) and three lodgers, Edward, Eliza and George Hawkins.

1881 census: EDWARD BALDWIN (age 65, head, engine man at colliery, born Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire), Lydia Baldwin (age 62, wife, born Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire), Miriam Baldwin (age 19, daughter, born Ruspidge, Gloucestershire), Elizabeth Badwin (age 13, daughter, born Ruspidge, Gloucestershire) and Edward T Baldwin (age 16, grandson, labourer at colliery, born Ruspidge, Gloucestershire). Living near Cinderford Iron Works, Tyler's Row, East Dean, Gloucestershire. RG11/2523/17/28.


From everything I've seen it does look as if the parents of Cornelius 1794 were Charles Baldwin 1755 and Elizabeth Dovey 1759. Interesting to see that Cornelius had 10 siblings but did Charles and Elizabeth really call one of their children Cheasey or is this a transcription error? You have Charles' parents as Charles 1737 and Betty - do you have a surname for Betty? I have a feeling that the parents of Charles 1737 may have been James Baldwin 1693 and Sarah Barnard - is this likely? In turn I believe James was the son of Charles Baldwin and Elizabeth Lamb who married 1681/82. I mentioned a number of public trees on Ancestry, one of these has Charles 1660 as Sir Charles Baldwin of Ruardean - is this possible or just wishful thinking.

Brian

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by jimashton @, Wednesday, September 12, 2012, 17:25 (4291 days ago) @ unknown

Brian

I hope the information I provided is useful, because the information you have provided - i.e. Edward Parsons first wife is very useful to me. I have Lydia Parsons in my family tree - not related. Mary is the daughter of James Parsons - as on your marriage certificate - and Mary Parker 1798 married 5 Aug 1815 English Bicknor. 9 Children includng Lydia of course and Timothy 1816 who married Ann Hall 1822 - 9 children, including Rhoda 1849 who married my 1st cousin 3 times removed Cornelius Brain 1848 son of Simeon Brain 1819 & Ann Marfell 1824. Another sibling of Lydia's was James 1823 who married Theophilia Meredith 1826 - 8 children, including Mary 1847 who married Timothy Yemm 1847, son of Amos Baldwin Yemm 1819 & Rebecca Marfell 1816. Amos Baldwin Yemm is the son of Amos Yemm & Winifred Baldwin- sister of Cornelius 1794. Another sibling of Lydia's is Benjamin Parsons 1825 who married my 6th cousin 3 times removed Jane Tippins 1833, their daughter Mirrium 1857 married my 7th cousin twice removed William Wilce 1843. If you go back 4 generations from Jane Tippins 1833 you of course get back to another Marfell, I do not bother to mention my relationship to any Marfell as I am related to them all. If you can go back far enough, you cannot fail to be.

Going back to James Parsons 1794 - father of Lydia, his parents are Thomas Parsons 1770 and Lucy Baldwin 1771 whose parents are Thomas Baldwin 1746 & Sarah Waldin 1746 who were mentioned in my previous posting. Parents of Thomas Parsons 1770 are John Parsons & Mary Amphley.

I have the same ancestors as you have noted for Charles Baldwin 1737 & Betty (no idea what her surname is) - James Baldwin 1693 & Sarah Barnard 1699 married 27 Dec 1719 - 12 children. I only have info on one other of those children Ankrat Baldwin 1743 who married Robert Hatton 1744, if you go through 3 generations there are 2 children that married relatives of mine. I have the parents of James Baldwin 1693 as Charles Baldwin & Elizabeth Lamb 5 children, the other I have an interest in is Warren Baldwin 1689 who I believe is the father of James Baldwin who married Betty Brain 22 May 1743 - parents of Thomas Baldwin 1746 who is mentioned above.

I too have Cheasey Baldwin 1799 as a son of Charles Baldwin & Elizabeth Dovey. You mention 10 children, I have 11 - Hannah 1779, Betty 1781, Charles 1783, James 1785, Amelia 1787, Richard 1789, William 1791-21 Jan 1863, Cornelius 1794, Winifred 1797, Cheasey 1799, Thomas 1803.

Jim Ashton

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by A Walford @, Friday, September 14, 2012, 13:00 (4290 days ago) @ jimashton

There is a Dovey family tree which includes Betty Dovey 1759 who married Charles Baldwin on rootsweb.

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=eliza1&id=I16

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Carol Klimowich @, Thursday, October 04, 2012, 19:35 (4269 days ago) @ jimashton

Hello,

I have Cheasey Baldwin in my tree, she is a female, bap. 30/06/1799, Ruardean.
Then she appears as a witness at sister's wedding of Winifred Baldwin to Amos Yemm, at Hope Mansell 13/06/1821.
Then Cheasey, (Chrissy), marries at Hope Mansell, Chreasey Baldwin to Thomas Jordan, 24/08/1822.
Hope this is of help.
Regards Carol

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Sunday, January 22, 2023, 10:19 (508 days ago) @ jimashton

Hello Jim,

How far back did you manage to get with the Baldwins in the end?

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Carol Klimowich @, Wednesday, October 03, 2012, 20:16 (4270 days ago) @ unknown

Hello,
I have been looking at the Baldwins as well, as baldwins appear twice at different times in my tree, all from the Forest of Dean area.
I have a Charles Baldwin marriage at Ledbury to Elizabeth Dovey 28/08/1778, children Hannah-1779 Ruadean, Betty-1781 Ruardean, James-1785 Ruardean, Amelia-1786 father not stated Ruardean, Amelia-1787 Ruardean, Richard-1789 Ruardean, William-1791 Ruardean, possible Winny-1797 Ruardean.
Also, son Charles Baldwin born 1783 who married Elizabeth Holder 14/03/1811 at Hundred of St Briavels, possible children Sally-1812 Littledean, Anne-1816 Flaxley, James-1819, Drybrook.
Don't know if this is of any help or more confusing?
Regards Carol

Baldwin marriage 1811

by Carol Klimowich @, Sunday, October 14, 2012, 12:38 (4260 days ago) @ Carol Klimowich

Hello,
Researching Baldwin ancestors:-
Charles Baldwin bap.1783 married an Elizabeth Holder 14/03/1811 at Chapel in Newlands, both residence in Hundred of St Briavels
Ref P227 IN 1/10 page 170
Although can trace Baldwins back to 1680's having difficulty finding where Elizabeth Holder was born.
Could anyone help with this piece of information.
Thank you
Regards Carol

Charles BALDWIN/Elizabeth HOLDER -

by m p griffiths @, Sunday, October 14, 2012, 15:23 (4260 days ago) @ Carol Klimowich

??


1841 Census Dean Forest Ross

Clements Green

Charles BALDWIN - 53 - Wood Coolier - born in County
Elizabeth BALDWIN - 56 - born in County

---


'Also son of Charles BALDWIN who married Elizabeth HOLDER 14 March 1811 at St Briavels' - possible children

Sally 1812, Littledean
Anne - 1816 - Flaxley
James - 1819 - Drybrook'


----

???

FOD records - Marriage at Newland - 12 April 1845

Isaac JONES - of full age Bachelor, father: John JONES, Tinman

married

Sophia BALDWIN - of full age, Spinster, residence: Lydbrook

father: Charles BALDWIN, Woodman

witnesses: John and Ann HUZZEY

--

Children of Isaac/Sophia JONES

Morgan Charles - 1850 English Bicknor
William Edward and Christian - 1857 - Lydbrook
Ruth Elizabeth and Hester - 1862 - Lydbrook

--

1861 Census, English Bicknor, Lydbrook

JONES

Isaac - 36, Tin Polisher, born Kent, Greenwich
Suffica - 36 - born Newland (christened at Drybrook - 25 June 1826)
Jacob - 12 - born Newland
Edwin - 6
Christyannah - 4
Ruth - 1
John JONES - father - 66

--

----

Marriage at Newland - 24 December 1842

James BALDWIN - of full age, Bachelor, - Charcoal Burner

father: Charles BALDWIN, Charcoal Burner

married

Caroline LEWIS, Minor, Spinster, father: William LEWIS, miner

mark of John POWELL, Letitia BALDWIN

Baldwin marriage 1811

by cmfenton @, Ferndown, Dorset, Sunday, October 14, 2012, 15:33 (4260 days ago) @ Carol Klimowich

The census records for 1860, 1870 show an Elizabeth Baldwin as born in "Harpury" (Hartpury) and checking the baptism records here comes up with the following which seems a good possibility:

Record_ID: 177578
Entry_Number:
Year: 1785
Month: May
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: HOLDER
Child_Forenames: Elizabeth
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Sarah
Mothers_Surname:
Residence:
Occupation:
Officiating_Minister:
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P165 IN 1/2
Page_Number: 49
Parish_Chapel: Hartpury

Regards
-Colin

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Sunday, January 22, 2023, 10:17 (508 days ago) @ unknown

Bump!

I know the chances of a response are unlikely given this original post was 10 year ago. However...

I was wondering whether you made any progress on your wife's family tree?

I am direct 3x great grandson of Cornelius Baldwin who I believe was born in 1862, he married Emma Matthews who died possibly due to complications of childbirth when she had my great great grandfather Arthur Edward Baldwin (b. 1888). Cornelius was son of another Cornelius (b.1837) who was the son of Moses Baldwin (b.1818).

Are you still here? ????

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Nick Dub @, Sunday, January 22, 2023, 11:16 (508 days ago) @ Baldwin91

Hi,
I have some Baldwins in my family tree - for example Thomas Baldwin 15 March 1746 - 1807 of Littledean, a Coalminer.

As far as I can see, they are a different set of Baldwins to the ones you are researching, but I've been wrong before :-)

Good luck, Nick

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Sunday, January 22, 2023, 23:48 (507 days ago) @ Nick Dub

I've got Thomas Baldwin in mine too, he married Sarah Walding? Did they have a son called Joseph?

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Nick Dub @, Monday, January 23, 2023, 11:12 (507 days ago) @ Baldwin91

Hi,
I believe Thomas B married Sarah Walding b 7 Dec 1746, in Ruardean on the 17th August 1767.

I haven't done much in the way of follow-up work on this part of my Tree having got swamped by Worgans in the Newland area pre-1750. I'm by no means an expert, but I do know more about them now than I ever expected to :-)

I have a little more tentatively correct info on these Baldwin ancestors - just let me know if it interests you, please.

All the best

Nick

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Monday, January 23, 2023, 12:53 (507 days ago) @ Nick Dub

Have you ever come across a Baldwyn written on the parish records as Warand? He was the son of Charles and Elizabeth Baldwyn of Ruardean? Baptised in 1689 if I remember correctly.

There's no other mention of a Warand Baldwyn anywhere, there's a Warren Baldwin but he was born in America around the same time.

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Nick Dub @, Monday, January 23, 2023, 13:49 (507 days ago) @ Baldwin91

No, sorry - can't help you with that

Generally I've found that back in the day people did not make up new names. They were usually traditional, and ran in families. Henry son of William, son of Henry etc.

An exception is surnames used as first names. One I've come across several times, which I hand't seen before is Kedgwyn eg Kedgwyn Hoskyns - this in relation to the Worgan family in Newland. My guess is it was the surname of a wife and was used as a Christian name, but I'm not sure about it.

All the best Nick

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Monday, January 23, 2023, 14:29 (507 days ago) @ Nick Dub

Definitely, most of my relatives didn't really stray with names.
So this Warand is a bit of an anomaly. Unless the handwriting has fooled me, but it's not that hard to decipher unlike some of the earlier parish records!

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Nick Dub @, Monday, January 23, 2023, 15:09 (507 days ago) @ Baldwin91

The odds favour the obvious answer, which is Warren, as you already mentioned. Local dialect fooling an outsider who wasn't that familiar with Forest pronunciation, perhaps? Very few of my relatives back then would have been able to spell their names.

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Baldwin91, Monday, January 23, 2023, 19:43 (506 days ago) @ Nick Dub

Did you manage to find Thomas (b.1745) Baldwin's parents?
Most people have put his father as James, despite there being a Thomas listed as his father on his marriage certificate.
So right now my redraft has Thomas (1745-1807), who was son of Thomas (b.1714 in Newent), who was son of Thomas Baldwin of Newent (married Anne Bridges in 1708).

Ancestors of Edward BALDWIN 1821 - Cornelius BALDWIN (c1794)

by Nick Dub @, Monday, January 23, 2023, 23:19 (506 days ago) @ Baldwin91

I have father :- James Baldwin son of ??1720 James and Sarah
and mother :- Betty Brain married 22 May 1743 Newland

I can't remember now how confident I was of this being correct. Often for pre-census times, I have put my best guesses in. Not being super well-organised and having a memory which occasionally switches off has led me to write things down, even though I am not certain the info is right.

Cheers

Nick

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