James GRIFFITHS 1846 Ruardean re purchased mine (General)

by lori @, Friday, March 08, 2013, 21:54 (2684 days ago)

I have read previously somewhere on this site that my great great grandfather purchased a coalmine probably Ruardean but i cannot find the article now can anyone help, also in 1873 he was a Beerhouse keeper residing in Naibridge would anyone know if he actually owned a pub or would he sell beer from his own house many thanks
Lorian Worsley ne Griffiths

James GRIFFITHS 1846 Ruardean previous thread

by m p griffiths @, Friday, March 08, 2013, 22:05 (2684 days ago) @ lori

James GRIFFITHS 1846 Ruardean previous thread

by lori @, Saturday, March 09, 2013, 17:34 (2683 days ago) @ m p griffiths

Many thanks for this info, i'm not quite sure if the my James Griffiths is the one that bought the mine, but hey ho will keep reserching . i did find something on James Griffiths leaving a will but no mention of a mine, again not sure if the James leaving the will is my James too many James's but thanks again for your time and trouble

James Griffiths' mine Ruardean Hill

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 09, 2013, 01:18 (2684 days ago) @ lori

Hi Lori,
I've also searched this FoDFH site in all it's aspects but sadly couldn't find any articles, photos or discussion re James apart from as per MPG's post, sorry.
Probably the best site to research Dean mining history is the renowned Ian Pope's Lightmoor site, which I foolishly forgot to look up first. Instead, and not for the first time, I found it by Googling "James Griffiths mine Dean", isn't it great when a search engine works well ! - I think this is the article you've seen before as this great site gets regular mentions on the forum:

"30 November 1872 Having bought Ruardean Hill Colliery I and my partner James Griffiths - began to open up a level - found yellow ochre under Coleford High Delf. E. Dykins, Bilson. Application for license to work ochre."
http://www.lightmoor.co.uk/forestcoal/CoalRuardeanHill.html

I think I'm right in saying this was written by James' partner who is "E.Dykins of Bilson" ?
Searching this site's PRs I'm surprised there's only 32 Dykin PRs in the whole database; having grownup in Cinderford/Bilson where the Dykins name is wellknown I guess I assumed it was much more common, or perhaps they just wern't Church goers.
Could this be our man ?.

Record_ID: 55652
Entry_Number: 1017
Year: 1883
Month: Mar
Day: 29
Surname: DYKINS
Forenames: Enoch
Residence: Cinderford
Age_at_death: 59 y[ea]rs
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/13
Page_No: 128
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex: D252
Record_ID: 3192
Entry_Number: 328

Year: 1881
Month: Nov
Day: 1
Grooms_Surname: PROBERT
Grooms_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Age: 33
Groom_Condition: Widower
Grooms_Occupation: Draper
Grooms_Residence: Cinderford
Grooms_Fathers_Surname: Probert
Grooms_Fathers_Forenames: Thomas
Grooms_Fathers_Occupation: Schoolmaster (Draper)
Brides_Surname: DYKINS
Brides_Forenames: Mary Ann
Brides_Age: 25
Brides_Condition: Spinster
Brides_Occupation: [not stated]
Brides_Residence: Cinderford
Brides_Fathers_Surname: Dykins
Brides_Fathers_Forenames: Enoch
Brides_Fathers_Occupation: Outfitter
Licence_or_Banns: Banns
Date_of_Banns:
Signature_or_Mark: Both sign
Witness_1: Enoch Dykins
Witness_2: Annie R.[?] Hughes
Other_Witnesses: Annie S. Chivers]; Fred Biggs
Officiating_Minister: W[illia]m Lynes Vicar
Event: Marriage
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P85/1 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 164
Parish_Chapel: Cinderford St John
Soundex_Groom: P616
Soundex_Bride: D252

Must admit this Cinderford E.Dykins doesnt seem an obvious mine owner !?!.

I cannot say which James Griffiths this refers to wrt this site's PRs, there are many especially in Ruardean.

UPDATE: Re the Dykins surname being rare, I can confirm the Glos Archives "Non Conformists" site doesn't list any at all. However not surprisingly there are a great many Griffiths listed including several James Griffiths in the Ruardean & then the East Dean (ie Ruardean & Drybrook) parishes, so this site may be worth further searching.
http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/genealogy/Results.aspx

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 09, 2013, 01:42 (2684 days ago) @ Jefff

I presume your info re the beerhouse is from this PR ?:

Record_ID: 15125
Entry_Number: 179
Year: 1873
Month: Jul
Day: 13
Parents_Surname: GRIFFITHS
Child_Forenames: Eliza Emily Jane
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Harriett
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Nailbridge
Occupation: Beerhouse Keeper
Officiating_Minister: Wm Barker Vicar
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: PFC109 IN 1/4
Page_Number: 23
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: G613

This recent thread re one of the Nailbridge pubs doesnt mention any Griffiths', but it may still be of interest altho I suspect you'll have already read it.
http://www.forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?mode=thread&id=6875

If you search the GlosPubs (ex Easywell) website, which is largely researched from Census Returns & Trade Directories, I can only find two references to a "James Griffiths" and they're both in Bristol.
If you search the site for "Nailbridge" the few pubs mentioned don't include history as early as 1873, so it's possible James' beerhouse "became" either the Railway or the Bridge in later years ??
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php

As you say he could have been selling beer from his own house,although it would still be subject to licensing laws. I believe this was sometimes done as a sideline from the main dayjob which I presume was the mine ?. Thatsaid I'm surprised the term "mine owner" wasn't used in the above PR if he indeed was still the owner at that time; no disrespect at all to beerhouse keepers (my grandad was one) but methinks "mine owner" sounds grander than "mine host" ?.

The term "beerhouse" doesn't necessarily infer a house that sold beer, it was effectively a "lower" grade of pub that was only licenced to sell beer not wine & spirits, perfectly suited for the typical Forest cliental of hardworking men.

"By the early 19th century, encouraged by lower duties on gin, the gin houses or "Gin Palaces" had spread from London to most cities and towns in Britain, with most of the new establishments illegal and unlicensed. These bawdy, loud and unruly drinking dens so often described by Charles Dickens in his Sketches by Boz (1835–6) increasingly came to be held as unbridled cesspits of immorality or crime and the source of much ill-health and alcoholism among the working classes.

Under a banner of "reducing public drunkenness" the Beer Act of 1830 introduced a new lower tier of premises permitted to sell alcohol, the Beer Houses. At the time beer was viewed as harmless, nutritious and even healthy. Young children were often given what was described as small beer, which was brewed to have a low alcohol content, as the local water was often unsafe. Even the evangelical church and temperance movements of the day viewed the drinking of beer very much as a secondary evil and a normal accompaniment to a meal. The freely available beer was thus intended to wean the drinkers off the evils of gin, or so the thinking went.

Under the 1830 Act any householder who paid rates could apply, with a one-off payment of two guineas (roughly equal in value to £159 today), to sell beer or cider in his home (usually the front parlour) and even to brew his own on his premises. The permission did not extend to the sale of spirits and fortified wines, and any beer house discovered selling those items was closed down and the owner heavily fined. Beer houses were not permitted to open on Sundays. The beer was usually served in jugs or dispensed directly from tapped wooden barrels on a table in the corner of the room. Often profits were so high the owners were able to buy the house next door to live in, turning every room in their former home into bars and lounges for customers."
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_house

--------

I've tried searching the local Trade Directories for James Griffiths but without success, however I suspect this entry is relevant ??.

"Drybrook, Commercial; Griffiths Solomon, beer retailer"

http://www.forest-of-dean.net/?Kellys_Directory_1879
(Select East Dean)

(Also from that Directory under Cinderford I find "Dykins Enoch, tailor & hatter", re my earlier post.)

I presume this may be the above Solomon, from this site's PRs ?

Record_ID: 93698
Entry_Number: 607
Year: 1893
Month: May
Day: 10
Surname: GRIFFITHS
Forenames: Solomon
Residence: Drybrook
Age_at_death: 55
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/13
Page_No: 76
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: G613

Or is the 1879 Directory out of date (unlikely?), and it refers to:

Record_ID: 10847
Entry_Number: 626
Year: 1874
Month: May
Day: 31
Surname: GRIFFITHS
Forenames: Soloman
Residence: Nail Bridge
Age_at_death: 63
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death: [Not Sta
Memoranda: Name is annotated NY
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/12
Page_No: 79
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: G613


--------

If you have access to it (eg Glos Libraries) Heather Hurley's excellent book "Pubs of Forest of Dean", Logaston Press 2004, is well worth looking up, it details all the known pubs in great detail.


===============================

Finally I found these webpages by search engine that may possibly be of interest to Nailbridge Griffiths researchers:

http://www.linleyfh.com/oursecondsite-p/p376.htm

http://87.248.112.8/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=griffiths+nailbridge&type=61465&...
(this one references Jenny White who has contributed to related threads on this forum)

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by lori @, Saturday, March 09, 2013, 17:35 (2683 days ago) @ Jefff

Many thanks Jeff for your time and trouble and information

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 09, 2013, 18:30 (2683 days ago) @ lori

You're most welcome Lori, all very enjoyable for me.
I expect you've already looked but I see the Drybrook/Ruardean Griffiths' are well catered-for by the Wills & Inquests sections of this website, just one example being this Will which may be relevant to your line as per my earlier post:

Surname GRIFFITHS
First Name Solomon
Abode Drybrook
Occupation Innkeeper
Year Proved 1893
Page Number 206
Year of Death 1893
Month of Death May
Day of Death 6
Value Under £254
Document Will
Notes
Will Number Will_02525

I'm very sorry I cannot copy & paste examples of the many very interesting Inquests.
http://www.http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/resources/inquests

Good luck finding "your" James, I know the problem in this respect only too well !

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by Jane Jones, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 15:24 (852 days ago) @ Jefff

Solomon Griffiths ran The George Inn, Drybrook, some time between 1868 and 1893. His wife Anne Frowen inherited it from her first husband, Amos Frowen upon his death in 1868.

When Anne died the property went to her nephew, Tom Watts Haddock. However, I don't know what then happened to Solomon.

There is very little detail available for the George Inn but I have the original mortgage documents which name Solomon Griffiths and various others such as Amos Frowen.

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by ChrisW @, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 18:25 (852 days ago) @ Jane Jones

Hi Jane

There is this burial in 1893? Transcript on this site.


Record_ID: 93748
Entry_Number: 607
Year: 1893
Month: May
Day: 10
Surname: GRIFFITHS
Forenames: Solomon
Residence: Drybrook
Age_at_death: 55
Officiating_Minister: William Barker Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/13
Page_No: 76
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: G613
----------------------------------------

This is on the Wills Index (also on this site).

Recid 2525
Item number Will_02525
Surname GRIFFITHS
Forenames Solomon
Abode Drybrook
Occupation Innkeeper
Year 1893
Page no 206
Year death 1893
Month death May
Day death 6
Value under £254
Doctype Will
Notes
Soundex G613


From FreeBMD: https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Deaths Jun 1893
Griffiths Solomon 55 Westbury S. 6a 143


Regards
Chris

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by ChrisW @, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 18:43 (852 days ago) @ ChrisW

This is an extract from an article in the Gloucester Citizen.


Gloucester Citizen Gloucestershire, England
10 May 1893

DRYBROOK
Sudden Death.—Mr. M. F. Carter, coroner for the Western Division of Gloucester, has received notice of the death of Solomon Griffiths, 55 years of age, landlord of the George Inn, Drybrook, East Dean, who was found lying dead in bed by his wife's side

The above is from the British Newspaper Archives. I do not have a Subscription but hopefully someone else will be able to post the rest of the article for you? Actually, I can't see an Inquest for him on this site (FoD) so perhaps there wasn't any need for one. It would have to be reported to the Coroner as it was a sudden death.

Chris

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 19:17 (852 days ago) @ ChrisW

Hi Chris

You are correct that there was no need for an inquest,

BNA Gloucester Citizen - Wednesday 10 May 1893

DRYBROOK. Sudden Death.—Mr. M. F. Carter, coroner for the Western Division of Gloucester, has received notice of the death of Solomon Griffiths, 55 years of age, landlord of the George Inn, Drybrook, East Dean, who was found lying dead in bed by his wife's side. Deceased, who was a very fine-looking man, was subject to bronchitis, and had been attended several times during the year by Dr. Milnes. He was taken ill on the 3rd with a severe fit of coughing, and gradually grew worse and died as stated. As Dr. Milnes is prepared to certify as to the cause of death, an inquest will not be held.

James Griffiths' Beerhouse, Nailbridge c1873

by Jane Jones, Monday, March 19, 2018, 21:48 (847 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thanks to Mike and Chris for this information on Solomon Griffiths death. The history of our home is slowly coming to life with the help of this forum!

Crown Inn, Hawthorns, Drybrook

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Wednesday, March 14, 2018, 19:09 (852 days ago) @ Jane Jones

In the unlikely case you've not seen it Jane, more about the Crown Inn Drybrook may be found on this prior post.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=1707

I cannot give a direct link to the page, which admittedly doesn't have too much information, but if you enter "Hawthorns" into the search box on the excellent Easywell GlosPubs site, it will take you straight to the Crown.
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php

Also here ref Solomon Griffiths;
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=1460
http://forest-of-dean.net/fodmembers/index.php?mode=thread&id=1120

Crown Inn, Hawthorns, Drybrook

by Jane Jones, Friday, March 16, 2018, 17:51 (850 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for all the information.

The George Inn was lower down in the village than the Crown. We know it existed as we currently live in the property and have some information on the original owners. However, there is very little information on The George Inn anywhere but we do have the original mortgage details.

We know that the property went to Anne Frowen following the death of her husband, Amos. Anne then married Solomon Griffiths but Anne bequeathed the property to her nephew Tom Watts Haddock, although Solomon Griffiths appeared to be running the Inn according to the information given above. I am also assuming that Solomon remarried following the death of Anne (around 1898 I believe)

Any further help would be appreciated as I am in the very early stages of research!!

Crown Inn, Hawthorns, Drybrook

by ChrisW @, Friday, March 16, 2018, 19:27 (850 days ago) @ Jane Jones

Hello Jane


"I am also assuming that Solomon remarried following the death of Anne (around 1898 I believe)"


Did you miss my earlier posts on this thread?


Solomon died in 1893, so if he was running any pub after that it must have been in 'spirit' form!

Chris

Crown Inn, Hawthorns, Drybrook

by Jane Jones, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 14:48 (850 days ago) @ ChrisW

Hello Jane


"I am also assuming that Solomon remarried following the death of Anne (around 1898 I believe)"


Did you miss my earlier posts on this thread?


Solomon died in 1893, so if he was running any pub after that it must have been in 'spirit' form!

Chris

Hi Chris

According to my documents the George Inn was purchased by Cornelius Marfell Cowmeadow in 1911. He was the sub postmaster at this time & other locals have informed us that the house was indeed used as a post office at some time. We even have the outline of a post box on the outside of the property after taking off the render on the front of the house!

Crown Inn & Post Office, Hawthorns, Drybrook

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 15:28 (849 days ago) @ Jane Jones

Hi Chris

According to my documents the George Inn was purchased by Cornelius Marfell Cowmeadow in 1911. He was the sub postmaster at this time & other locals have informed us that the house was indeed used as a post office at some time. We even have the outline of a post box on the outside of the property after taking off the render on the front of the house!

The earliest map I can find showing a Post Office in Drybrook is this one from 1921. It is indeed very near the Chapel, as you know of course, so NOT the building I wondered about in my earlier post based around the maps from c1878. Ah well...
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102342788

The 1879 Trade Directory (and no doubt others too) show Cornelius Marfell Cowmeadow as Drybrook's postmaster.
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/joomla/index.php/resources/kelly-s-directory-1879/48-east...

He is also mentioned in this role within the London Gazette of 1900.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/27167/page/1181/data.pdf

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 03:08 (850 days ago) @ Jane Jones

Thank you for all the information.

The George Inn was lower down in the village than the Crown. We know it existed as we currently live in the property and have some information on the original owners. However, there is very little information on The George Inn anywhere but we do have the original mortgage details.

We know that the property went to Anne Frowen following the death of her husband, Amos. Anne then married Solomon Griffiths but Anne bequeathed the property to her nephew Tom Watts Haddock, although Solomon Griffiths appeared to be running the Inn according to the information given above. I am also assuming that Solomon remarried following the death of Anne (around 1898 I believe)

Any further help would be appreciated as I am in the very early stages of research!!

Well this is a real surprise to me Jane.
I say that as I can find no reference whatsoever to a pub or beerhouse called the George in Drybrook. I've looked online including in Geoff Sandles' excellent Easywell site, and also in my various local pub reference books, it seems that you have information that no-one else has picked-up on. I've looked-up several pubs over the 8 years I've been on this forum and this is the first time I've drawn a complete blank, ah well !
I wonder if this pub was a very short-lived one indeed ?

Without wishing to pry too much, but as you know it's precise location as you live in it, I wonder if you can please give an approximate location of the George in Drybrook ?
eg what road it's on, and whereabouts in relation to other landmarks. If you can I can hopefully find it marked on one of the old O.S. maps, they're not always named. I realise this doesn't help you, but it will be of great interest to me and other pub historians too.

You mention "the property went to Anne Frowen following the death of her husband, Amos." Are you saying he or she actually lived in it, or what ?.

I see Amos John Frowen died in 1868, aged just 41.

I also see that in the 1851 census Amos was a grocer living with wife Ann on Hawker Hill, Mitcheldean. I don't now why but I'm unable to find them in the 1861 Census.

By a strange coincidence, much earlier between 1620 and c1740, the George Inn in Mitcheldean was originally on the west side of Hawker Hill. In 1740 this George re-opened in it's present location a little further north on Stars Pitch, in a tall house previously called the Dunstone.

The only other Crown Inn that I know of in this general area was in Caudle Lane, Ruardean, c1750.

All very curious indeed !

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 11:25 (850 days ago) @ Jefff

Unless it went under another name there don’t seem to be any references to the George in the BNA before 1893 when Solomon GRIFFITHS was landlord. However, thereafter, publicans were recorded as,

1899 John BARNARD
1906 Alice COX (Temporary transfer of licence from James H COX, deceased.)
1908 John WILCE (Temporary transfer from Alice COX)
1909 Alice COX
1910 John WILCE

In 1911 John WILCE received compensation from the County Compensation Authority after his licence was not renewed. This was a time when many pubs and beer houses were closed down as they were deemed “unnecessary” to provide for the needs of the public (1904 Licensing Act). Closure was due on May 2nd, 1911.

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jane Jones, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 14:15 (850 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Unless it went under another name there don’t seem to be any references to the George in the BNA before 1893 when Solomon GRIFFITHS was landlord. However, thereafter, publicans were recorded as,

1899 John BARNARD
1906 Alice COX (Temporary transfer of licence from James H COX, deceased.)
1908 John WILCE (Temporary transfer from Alice COX)
1909 Alice COX
1910 John WILCE

In 1911 John WILCE received compensation from the County Compensation Authority after his licence was not renewed. This was a time when many pubs and beer houses were closed down as they were deemed “unnecessary” to provide for the needs of the public (1904 Licensing Act). Closure was due on May 2nd, 1911.

The information above was unknown to me, so thank you for this.

The pub / beer house was definitely known previously as The George Inn, according to the original documents we have but I have also been unable to find any other information. If we didn't have these documents I would never have believed it existed!!

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 14:45 (850 days ago) @ Jane Jones

The pub / beer house was definitely known previously as The George Inn, according to the original documents we have but I have also been unable to find any other information. If we didn't have these documents I would never have believed it existed!!

Hi Jane,
please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't questioning your information at all. I was just confirming what you're saying, in so far as no-one else seems to know there was once a George pub in Drybrook.

Thanks, Jeff.

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jane Jones, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 14:49 (850 days ago) @ Jefff

The pub / beer house was definitely known previously as The George Inn, according to the original documents we have but I have also been unable to find any other information. If we didn't have these documents I would never have believed it existed!!


Hi Jane,
please don't misunderstand me, I wasn't questioning your information at all. I was just confirming what you're saying, in so far as no-one else seems to know there was once a George pub in Drybrook.

Thanks, Jeff.

No worries Jeff - I didn't think that at all! It is quite a mystery......

James Henry COX & Alice BRAIN. George Inn, Drybrook c1901

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 00:56 (849 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

thereafter, publicans were recorded as,

1899 John BARNARD
1906 Alice COX (Temporary transfer of licence from James H COX, deceased.)
1908 John WILCE (Temporary transfer from Alice COX)
1909 Alice COX


FamilySearch gives;

1901 Drybrook, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James H Cox Head M 37 Inn keeper. Bagpath, Gloucestershire
Alice Cox Wife F 38 Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire
Dorothy J Cox Daughter F 2 North Nibley, Gloucestershire

Not needed now, but would be nice to see the image, hence neighbours & precise location in the village. James' birthplace Bagpath is a hamlet in the western Cotswolds southwest of Nailsworth, quite near Nibley.


From the pub licence records this seems a good fit;

Record_ID: 94600
Entry_Number: 1471
Year: 1906
Month: Jul
Day: 11
Surname: COX
Forenames: James Henry
Residence: Drybrook
Age_at_death: 42 years
Officiating_Minister: H E Barnet Curate
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/13
Page_No: 184
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: C200

So born abt 1864.


FreeBMD;
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
BRAIN Alice Westbury S. 6a 389
Cox James Henry Westbury S. 6a 389

GlosBMD;
Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
COX James Henry BRAIN Alice Forest of Dean Westbury-on-Severn (FoD) Register Office 1894 10 62


FoD PRs;

Record_ID: 396059
Entry_Number: 1907
Year: 1866
Month: Jun
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: COX
Child_Forenames: James Henry
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Rebecca
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Newland
Occupation: Blacksmith
Officiating_Minister: N Cornford Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P227 IN 1/6
Page_Number: 239
Parish_Chapel: Newland
Soundex: C200

So was young James born in Bagpath, but not baptised until a year ot two later when parents had moved back to the Forest ?

Which makes this a perfect fit, albeit odd area, perhaps father is a journeyman blacksmith ?

1891 Percy Street, Headington, Cowley, Oxfordshire.
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Cox Head M 53 Blacksmith. Herefordshire, Rogs
Rebecca N Cox Wife F 52 Herefordshire, Rogs
James H Cox Son M 24 Gardener. Gloucestershire, England
Rebecca Cox Daughter F 18 Milliner. Gloucestershire, England
Frances J Cox Daughter F 18 Tobecco Trade. Gloucestershire, England
Clara H Cox Daughter F 16 Dressmaker. Gloucestershire, England


1901 Stanley Rd, Headington, Cowley St John, Oxfordshire, England.
Household Role Sex AgeBirthplace
James Cox Head M 60 Blacksmith. Walford, Herefordshire
Rebecca Cox Wife F 60 Walford, Herefordshire
Frances Cox Daughter F 23 ASSISTANT OF TOBACCO MANUFACTORY. Copeland, Gloucestershire
Clara Cox Daughter F 23 DRESSMAKER. Copeland, Gloucestershire
Elsie Cox Grand Daughter F 6 Oxford, Oxfordshire
Owen Cox Grand Son M 4 Oxford, Oxfordshire

However it now gets rather tricky, as there is another James Cox born abt 1864 in Badgeworth Glos, "similar" to Bagpath Glos, plus several more Jas Cox in the Bagpath, Tetbury area alone ...

Try searching for parents, the 1881 gives them still in Oxford.
Young James Henry is known as Harry, hence didn't find him earlier !

1881 Marlborough Road, New Grandpont, Oxford St Aldate, Oxfordshire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Cox Head M 44 Blacksmith. Horn Green Ross, Herefordshire, England
Rebecca M Cox Wife F 43 Walford, Herefordshire, England
Jane E Tonmy Wifes Sister F 38 Wife's sister. Walford, Herefordshire, England
Harry Cox Son M 14 Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Rebecca M Cox Daughter F 9 Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Frances J Cox Daughter F 9 Newland, Gloucestershire, England
Hester C Cox Daughter F 7 Newland, Gloucestershire, England


1871 Newland, Newland, Monmouthshire, Wales
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Cox Head M 34 Blacksmith. Herefordshire
Rebecca Cox Wife F 33 Herefordshire
James H Cox Son M 5 Newland, Gloucestershire
Jane Tomey Sister F 28 Herefordshire


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
Cox James Gloucester 6a 488
Tommy Rebecca Gloucester 6a 488

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
COX James TOMMY Rebecca Gloucester Gloucester St James 1865 29x No 2 175

---------


1911 East Dean, Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Alice Cox Head F 48 Widow. Licensed house. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Ivy Brain Niece F 10 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

Dare I ask which pub this was ?

Record_ID: 95876
Entry_Number: 1149
Year: 1926
Month: Jan
Day: 23
Surname: COX
Forenames: Alice
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Age_at_death: 61 years
Officiating_Minister: W M Bellamy Vicar
Event: Burial
Cause_of_death:
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/14
Page_No: 144
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: C200

James Henry COX & Alice BRAIN. George Inn, Drybrook c1901

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 15:17 (848 days ago) @ Jefff

GR 1911 Census shows that Alice COX lived on Cinderford High Street. Unfortunately few on that street included the house number or name in the postal addresses. However, the next entry (going northwards, I think) is,

Moses HARRIS, Head, 62, Innkeeper, b. East Dean, Gloucester

The BNA Gloucester Journal , Saturday 19 May 1917, reported details of the will of Moses HARRIS of the Globe Inn, Cinderford. Other, earlier, entries confirm his residence. The Globe is marked on this map,

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453397

The chances are that Alice ran a small beer house or maybe even an off-licence on Cinderford High Street. The Gloucestershire Pubs site has a decent entry for the Globe and also lists a couple of un-named and un-located premises at least one of which was on the High Street. Maybe it was located in one of the houses to the right in this picture. The Globe is the red building set back from the road – you can just make out the West Country Brewery plaque still in place. It is now a veterinary practice.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8277538,-2.501454,3a,75y,98.58h,88.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!...

James Henry COX & Alice BRAIN. George Inn, Drybrook c1901

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 19:00 (848 days ago) @ Mike Pinchin

Thaks for that Mike, you may be right, there were a lot of possibles.

I know the Globe well, from the outside anyway, I don't ever recall it being a working pub. I was born in '62 a few yards down the High Street, just behind the Seven Stars pub which is also long shut. During a particularly interesting lecture at Cinderford Tech College c1979 we compiled a list of Cinderford's pubs and licensed clubs still trading at that time, I recall we counted about 20, not bad for a small town !

Alice COX nee BRAIN. Cinderford High St pub? c1911.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 22:11 (848 days ago) @ Jefff

Hi again Mike, sorry for asking which pub Alice was at in 1911, I probably should have just said "wondered" and left it at that ! :-)


Looking at Cinderford High Street pubs in Heather Hurley's excellent book "Pubs of the RFoD", I can't help but be drawn to the entry for the "Severn Stars" established in 1864. It tells us that in 1903 the landlord was an Oliver Brain, under Alton Court Brewery, and adds that two women followed one another as landladies during the 1920s and '30s, before passing to West Country Breweries in 1962 and subsequent closure.

Could one of those landladies have been Alice ?.

I posted this FamilySearch transcript for Alice Cox (nee Brain), could Alice and her niece Ivy been a relation of Oliver Brain at the Seven Stars ?

1911 East Dean, Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Alice Cox Head F 48 Widow. Licensed house. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Ivy Brain Niece F 10 Cinderford, Gloucestershire

This site has this excellent photo of the Seven Stars and some helpful info on landlords from the GlosPubs Easywell site.
http://forest-of-dean.net/gallery/cinderford/pages/page_62.html

The photo's notes include these previous licencees;
1902 Oliver Brain
1903 Oliver James Brain. Alehouse. Alton Court Brewery, Ross on Wye
1906 Robert Taylor
1919,1927 Kate Palfrey (Mrs)
1939 Ben Voyce

So looks unlikely that Alice was there in the 20s & 30s, but what about Oliver James Brain ?

I think this is niece Ivy Brain in 1901, with father James an Innkeeper. A little more info on this transcript but still not a precise placement on High Street. The Ruardean Hill home location may lean towards Alice who ended her days there ?.

1901 High Street, Woodside St Stephens, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 32 Inn Keeper. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
M Brain Wife F 31 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
Annie M Brain Daughter F 6 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
William J Brain Son M 5 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Emily B Brain Daughter F 4 Cinderford
Edgar J Brain Son M 2 Cinderford
Ivy L Brain Daughter F 0 Cinderford
Annie S Pimple Servant F 16 London


I've searched without luck for a birth record for Ivy L Brain c1901, I wonder if her second name was mis-heard when the Census was taken ?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1901 (>99%)
BRAIN Ivy Alexandra S Westbury S 6a 289

Birth Details
Child Surname Child Forename Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry
BRAIN Ivy Alexandra Sophia PALMER 1901 Forest of Dean Westbury on Severn, East Dean 9 89


Record_ID: 134519
Entry_Number:
Year: 1908
Month: Apr
Day: 22
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: Ivy Alexandria Sophia
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Annie Bessie
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Cinderford
Occupation: Publican
Officiating_Minister: H E Barnet Curate
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P109 IN 1/5
Page_Number: 118
Parish_Chapel: Drybrook
Soundex: B650

Also

Record_ID: 473364
Entry_Number: 521
Year: 1894
Month: Jun
Day: 10
Parents_Surname: BRAIN
Child_Forenames: Annie Maud May
Fathers_Forenames: James
Mothers_Forenames: Bessie
Mothers_Surname:
Residence: Ruardean Hill
Occupation: Collier
Officiating_Minister: Edward Parnell Rector
Event: Baptism
Memoranda:
Notes:
Register_Reference: P275 IN 1/8
Page_Number: 66
Parish_Chapel: Ruardean
Soundex: B650

etc.

Marriage Details
Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry
BRAIN James PALMER Annie Bessie Forest of Dean Monmouth Register Office 1892 17 113


1911 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
James Brain Head M 41 Publican. Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Bessie Brain Wife F 40 Lydbrook, Gloucestershire
May Brain Daughter F 16 Ruardean Hill, Gloucestershire
Cissie Brain Daughter F 14 Cinderford, Gloucestershire
Eddy Brain Son M 12 Cindeford, Gloucestershire
W Bowen Boarder M 33 Hinley


And here's Alice Brain in the same household, who we already know was born abt 1863 and married James Cox in 1894. So Alice is James' elder sister.

1881 Ruardean Hill,East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 29 Miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Jane Brain Wife F 36 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Alice Brain Daughter F 18 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
James Brain Son M 13 Scholar. East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 11 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Thos Brain Son M 6 East Dean, Gloucestershire, England


1871 Ruardean Hill, East Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
John Brain Head M 28 Coal Miner. East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Brain Wife F 27 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Alice Brain Daughter F 8 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Sophia Brain Daughter F 5 East Dean, Gloucestershire
James Brain Son M 2 East Dean, Gloucestershire
Jane Elizabeth Brain Daughter F 0 East Dean, Gloucestershire

Which is all very well, BUT is this James Brain the SAME MAN as Oliver James Brain at the Seven Stars in 1903 ??

Probably not, he was known as just Oliver the year before, yet none of the above records mention Oliver... ?

------------

Thankfully, Heather Hurley's book goes onto say "at least two other beerhouses existed somewhere in the High Street. One of these was The Bell, recorded as kept by John Briscoe in 1879, before ownership passed to Wintle's Forest Brewery at Mitcheldean c1889. James Brain was recorded at the Bell in 1903 and may have been the last tender before it closed in 1911."

So it does look like Alice Cox nee Brain was at the Bell, with her brother James.

Returning to the GlosPubs site, despite there being 65 hits when searching the word "Cinderford", thankfully The Bell is only on the 5th page. It carries more detail, saying this Beerhouse had three public rooms with one for lodgers, it had stabling, James Brain was tenant landlord for 14 years from 1897 until it closed in February 1912, and it was within 50 yards of the Globe Inn !
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php

Alice COX nee BRAIN. The Bell, Cinderford High St c1911.

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Monday, March 19, 2018, 14:57 (848 days ago) @ Jefff


Thankfully, Heather Hurley's book goes onto say "at least two other beerhouses existed somewhere in the High Street. One of these was The Bell, recorded as kept by John Briscoe in 1879, before ownership passed to Wintle's Forest Brewery at Mitcheldean c1889. James Brain was recorded at the Bell in 1903 and may have been the last tender before it closed in 1911."

So it does look like Alice Cox nee Brain was at the Bell, with her brother James.

Returning to the GlosPubs site, despite there being 65 hits when searching the word "Cinderford", thankfully The Bell is only on the 5th page. It carries more detail, saying this Beerhouse had three public rooms with one for lodgers, it had stabling, James Brain was tenant landlord for 14 years from 1897 until it closed in February 1912, and it was within 50 yards of the Globe Inn !
http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk/AllGlosPubsDatabase/AllGlosPubs_view.php


Hi again Mike,

following my problems on another post last night, after I posted the above about the Bell, I wondered if the bad weather had somehow affected all my posts being uploaded to the forum, as I have friends who have suffered very bad internet issues these last few days. I therefore searched the forum to check my above post was as I thought it should be, which of course it is, phew !. However and to my surprise while searching I also found this lengthy thread which shows we covered this family and the Bell pub in some detail about a year ago. Apologies for not remembering this.
atb J
http://forum.forest-of-dean.net/index.php?id=47955

Alice COX nee BRAIN. The Bell, Cinderford High St c1911.

by Mike Pinchin @, Bedford, England, Monday, March 19, 2018, 20:41 (847 days ago) @ Jefff

Thanks Jeff,

How about this building, two houses south of the Globe, with a suspicious-looking cellar arch????

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.8275158,-2.5013055,3a,46.4y,47.49h,76.37t/data=!3m6!1...

I've seen this kind of arrangement before in pubs where there was a main door giving access to the pub itself and another nearby giving direct access to the rear.

James Henry COX & Alice BRAIN. George Inn, Drybrook c1901

by admin ⌂, Forest of Dean, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 18:18 (848 days ago) @ Jefff

Baptism of James Henry Cox:
Name: James Henry Cox
Event Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Nov 1864
Baptism Place: Newington Bagpath, Gloucestershire, England
Father: Henry Cox
Mother: Elizabeth Cox

1871 Census
Boxwell
Household schedule number Given Name Surname Relationship Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Birth City Birth County Birth Country
6 Henry Cox Head 20 1851 Male Lasborough Gloucestershire England
6 Elizabeth Cox Wife 30 1841 Female Nympsfield Gloucestershire England
6 James Hy Cox Son 5 1866 Male Bagpath Gloucestershire England
6 William G Cox Son 3 1868 Male Bagpath Gloucestershire England
6 Emily E Cox Daughter 9 Mons 1870 Female Leighterton Gloucestershire England

1881 Census
Boxwell with Leighterton
Address Given Name Surname Relationship to Head Marital Status Age Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Birth City Birth County Birth Country
Upper Lodge Henry Cox Head Married 31 1850 Male Gamekeeper Lasbrough Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Elizabeth Cox Wife Married 38 1843 Female Gamekeeper Wife Nympsfield Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge James Cox Son 15 1866 Male Agricultural Labourer Bagpath Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge William Cox Son 13 1868 Male Scholar Bagpath Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Emily Cox Daughter 11 1870 Female Scholar Boxwell Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Louisa Cox Daughter 9 1872 Female Scholar Boxwell Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Calvin Cox Son 7 1874 Male Boxwell Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Daniel Cox Son 4 1877 Male Boxwell Gloucestershire England
Upper Lodge Edwin Cox Son 1 1880 Male Boxwell Gloucestershire England

1901 Census - Properties listed as follows:

[image]

James Henry COX & Alice BRAIN. George Inn, Drybrook c1901

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Sunday, March 18, 2018, 18:50 (848 days ago) @ admin

Hi,
thanks Admin for that, my original post included these 1871 & 1881 Census', but I was eventually convinced they couldn't be our man as wrong parents, and I ran out of space. Must admit I also thought Bagpath was a poor FamilySearch transcription before I found there is indeed such a place, altho' now sadly a ghost-town if not hamlet I gather.

Clearly I was so convinced that the 1866 Baptism to James & Rebecca which I found in the FoD PRs at the start of my hunt had to be "our" man. The sheer numbers of James H Cox's I later found should perhaps have convinced me otherwise, but the Baptism plus the journeyman blacksmith / GWR theory settled it for me.

Sorry about that, and many thanks for the image re the mysterious George Inn !.

( Darned Vurriners ;-) )

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jane Jones, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 14:43 (850 days ago) @ Jefff

Thank you for all the information.

The George Inn was lower down in the village than the Crown. We know it existed as we currently live in the property and have some information on the original owners. However, there is very little information on The George Inn anywhere but we do have the original mortgage details.

We know that the property went to Anne Frowen following the death of her husband, Amos. Anne then married Solomon Griffiths but Anne bequeathed the property to her nephew Tom Watts Haddock, although Solomon Griffiths appeared to be running the Inn according to the information given above. I am also assuming that Solomon remarried following the death of Anne (around 1898 I believe)

Any further help would be appreciated as I am in the very early stages of research!!


Well this is a real surprise to me Jane.
I say that as I can find no reference whatsoever to a pub or beerhouse called the George in Drybrook. I've looked online including in Geoff Sandles' excellent Easywell site, and also in my various local pub reference books, it seems that you have information that no-one else has picked-up on. I've looked-up several pubs over the 8 years I've been on this forum and this is the first time I've drawn a complete blank, ah well !
I wonder if this pub was a very short-lived one indeed ?

Without wishing to pry too much, but as you know it's precise location as you live in it, I wonder if you can please give an approximate location of the George in Drybrook ?
eg what road it's on, and whereabouts in relation to other landmarks. If you can I can hopefully find it marked on one of the old O.S. maps, they're not always named. I realise this doesn't help you, but it will be of great interest to me and other pub historians too.

You mention "the property went to Anne Frowen following the death of her husband, Amos." Are you saying he or she actually lived in it, or what ?.

I see Amos John Frowen died in 1868, aged just 41.

I also see that in the 1851 census Amos was a grocer living with wife Ann on Hawker Hill, Mitcheldean. I don't now why but I'm unable to find them in the 1861 Census.

By a strange coincidence, much earlier between 1620 and c1740, the George Inn in Mitcheldean was originally on the west side of Hawker Hill. In 1740 this George re-opened in it's present location a little further north on Stars Pitch, in a tall house previously called the Dunstone.

The only other Crown Inn that I know of in this general area was in Caudle Lane, Ruardean, c1750.

All very curious indeed !

Very curious indeed!!

We know that Amos Frowen purchased the land from the Forestry & have the mortgage documents from the original sale and subsequent additional monies requested. It was originally built as a pub / beer house.

Amos and Anne Frowen lived in the property. Also Anne's sister, Elizabeth and her son, Tom Watts Haddock lived together in the property, which I assume is why Anne gave the property to her nephew following her death rather than her 2nd husband, Solomon Griffiths.

The property is on Hawthorns Road near to the Methodist Church. The church was built at approximately the same time as the George Inn. It also appears that the George was operated as a pub from the date it was built (1861) through to the turn of the century, again according to our documents, but there seems to be a lack of other evidence to back this up!

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jefff @, West London, Middlesex, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 15:09 (849 days ago) @ Jane Jones

Thanks very much for the extra info Jane.

Sadly of all the maps I can find on line that offer sufficient detail the earliest is 1878. This clearly shows the Chapel ("Providence, Bible Christian"), but doesn't show the pub at all, at least not next to the Chapel. Rather oddly, it does show the "Royal Oak", but it appears to show it in a location a little further up the Hawthorns road from it's actual location on the Cross. Could the building location shown on this map possibly be your house, in other words across the road and slightly down from the Chapel, and not right next to the Chapel as I think you're saying. Hopefully this link will find the right page, then click on the top image on the left-hand menu for "1878".
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/364508/217607/12/100203

This map from 1884 is easier to access, and shows the Chapel and again appears to show an Inn a little further north than the two on the Cross, but doesn't name it. Then again, maybe the labelling is positioned where it is, and doesn't show the names, simply because the map is rather congested at the Cross itself ?
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453373

??


This photo shows Drybrook's two better-known pubs c1910, on the Cross so below the Chapel, True Heart on left and Royal Oak on right.
https://www.sungreen.co.uk/drybrook_forest_of_dean/drybrook-cross-1918.html

Sadly even these O.S. maps aren't infallible, as I see that sometimes the pubs are clearly named, and some times they're not. For example this 1901 map clearly shows the New Inn, as did the earlier maps above, but it doesn't name the two pubs on the Cross !!.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101453370

Curiouser and curiouser...

UPDATE - Please see my later post about the Post Office near the Chapel.

George Inn, Drybrook ?

by Jane Jones, Saturday, March 17, 2018, 18:10 (849 days ago) @ Jefff

Goodness me, you have been busy!

I can confirm that the building in front of the Chapel is indeed "The George Inn."At the time of construction the Royal Oak was 'next door' but there are now several buildings in between. What was the hairdressers in the photo of the Cross, has been converted into a dwelling, although retains a sign stating "Royal Oak". The village hairdressers is now located on the other side of the road.The map does look as though it is identifying the pub a little higher up but the location is right on the corner of the cross.

I will now look at your other posting. Thanks for all this interesting stuff.

Fountain Inn, Parkend

by obscurasky @, Thursday, April 05, 2018, 23:20 (830 days ago) @ Jane Jones

I'm assuming this is the same chap; we had a James Griffiths running our pub, The Fountain Inn at Parkend from 1860 to 1867. He's also listed in Slater’s Directory of Lydney 1868 as running it that year, but had actually left by then.

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